For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

[Jackson123]

Again, my Brother, your view of the lost is causing you trouble. Ppl are dead in sin. This dead is 'a spiritually dead corpse'. A corpse can not do anything, such as hear, see, love, &c. That's why God has to move unilaterally and quicken them before they can hear the gospel and be saved.

When we witness to the lost, we are witnessing to a bunch of bones like Ezekiel did in chapter 37. These bones were dead, no hope of ever living again, if left to their fallen selves. As Ezekiel prophesies, God moves through his words and brings those bones to life. Notice how those bones moved as Ezekiel prophesies, yet it was God willing them to life, not themselves.

That's how the gospel works. As we witness to the lost, those who God moves upon, come to life as He wills them to spiritual life through our words. Jesus said He quickens(makes alive) whosoever He will.

this theory is not apply to the real spiritual live brother.

Jesus love all and able to speak to all. God talk to Adam post sin and Adam hear it.

genesis 3:

9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

 

[CherieR]

I am considering the Calvanist doctrine. James White has a really good sermon on irresistible grace on YouTube. I watched the whole thing.

 

[SovereignGrace]

this theory is not apply to the real spiritual live brother.

Jesus love all and able to speak to all. God talk to Adam post sin and Adam hear it.

genesis 3:

9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Again, my Brother, what I am saying to you is just going 'WOOOOOSH!' by you. What I said is that when we witness to ppl, they are a spiritually dead corpse on the inside. However, whenever we witness to them, when God moves through the gospel we speak to them, He brings them to life. God uses our words, quickens their spirit, and they are saved. They can hear God as He quickens them to life.

God spoke to Satan, too. That's the thing with God. His voice is so powerful, even the dead can hear Him.

When Lazarus was in the tomb, all those around him could have rolled the stone away and yelled, "Get up Lazarus," and he wouldn't. Why? He was dead and could not hear their voices. However, when the Christ yelled, "Lazarus come out!", he heard and responded. Unless God works through the words we speak, ppl can't respond. Why? Because they're spiritually dead corpses on the inside.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am considering the Calvanist doctrine. James White has a really good sermon on irresistible grace on YouTube. I watched the whole thing.

 

[Jackson123]

Again, my Brother, what I am saying to you is just going 'WOOOOOSH!' by you. What I said is that when we witness to ppl, they are a spiritually dead corpse on the inside. However, whenever we witness to them, when God moves through the gospel we speak to them, He brings them to life. God uses our words, quickens their spirit, and they are saved. They can hear God as He quickens them to life.

God spoke to Satan, too. That's the thing with God. His voice is so powerful, even the dead can hear Him.

When Lazarus was in the tomb, all those around him could have rolled the stone away and yelled, "Get up Lazarus," and he wouldn't. Why? He was dead and could not hear their voices. However, when the Christ yelled, "Lazarus come out!", he heard and responded. Unless God works through the words we speak, ppl can't respond. Why? Because they're spiritually dead corpses on the inside.

But you admitted Lazarus respon because Christ yelled. Do you know Christ dwell in us, my brother, remember what Paul say

Galatians 2

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

paul said he is not him anymore but Christ live in Him , in other word, He represent Christ. So Christ use him to yelled to spiritual dead, they will hear, but after hear is up to them whether they accept or not.

 

[SovereignGrace]

But you admitted Lazarus respon because Christ yelled. Do you know Christ dwell in us, my brother, remember what Paul say

Galatians 2

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

paul said he is not him anymore but Christ live in Him , in other word, He represent Christ. So Christ use him to yelled to spiritual dead, they will hear, but after hear is up to them whether they accept or not.

Again, when we speak, God uses those words, quickens them and they hear, respond and are saved. God uses means to bring the lost to saving faith, and that means is the gospel.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Do you know Christ dwell in us,

And praytell, what do you mean when you ask this? Hmmm?

 

[SovereignGrace]

But you admitted Lazarus respon because Christ yelled. Do you know Christ dwell in us, my brother, remember what Paul say

Galatians 2

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

paul said he is not him anymore but Christ live in Him , in other word, He represent Christ. So Christ use him to yelled to spiritual dead, they will hear, but after hear is up to them whether they accept or not.

But the Christ doesn't dwell in us until after conversion. The Spirit quickens ppl to spiritual life, they respond and are saved and sealed and in Christ. This all happens at the same time.

 

[Jackson123]

Again, when we speak, God uses those words, quickens them and they hear, respond and are saved. God uses means to bring the lost to saving faith, and that means is the gospel.

And I believe God use Paul, so when Paul speak it quicken listener, but it is up to listener free will to accept or not

 

[Jackson123]

And praytell, what do you mean when you ask this? Hmmm?

Just a question, I mean like it say

 

[Jackson123]

But the Christ doesn't dwell in us until after conversion. The Spirit quickens ppl to spiritual life, they respond and are saved and sealed and in Christ. This all happens at the same time.

Yep Christ dwell in us after we accept Him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yep Christ dwell in us after we accept Him.

And I don't disagree with you here.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And I believe God use Paul, so when Paul speak it quicken listener, but it is up to listener free will to accept or not

Who is God here, us or Him?

 

[Jackson123]

Who is God here, us or Him?

If we accept Him, He use us to speak for Him, we are not God, but we are His messenger, to bring a message to every body that Jesus love them and bring His invitation to all sinner that Jesus forgive whosoever believe in Him

 

[SovereignGrace]

If we accept Him, He use us to speak for Him, we are not God, but we are His messenger, to bring a message to every body that Jesus love them and bring His invitation to all sinner that Jesus forgive whosoever believe in Him

You say we are not God, but you continually put sinful, wicked, fallen mankind in the driver's seat in regards to salvation. Unless you do 'something', God can't save you.

A pagan king gave God more glory for returning his right mind unto him than most ppl do these days for saving them...

At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever. His dominion is an eternal dominion; his kingdom endures from generation to generation.All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: “What have you done?” At the same time that my sanity was restored, my honor and splendor were returned to me for the glory of my kingdom. My advisers and nobles sought me out, and I was restored to my throne and became even greater than before. Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything he does is right and all his ways are just. And those who walk in pride he is able to humble.[Daniel 4:34-37]

Now, for him to say this, he had to be saved. But he praised God more than ppl do today, and that's really sad.

 

[Jackson123]

You say we are not God, but you continually put sinful, wicked, fallen mankind in the driver's seat in regards to salvation. Unless you do 'something', God can't save you.

A pagan king gave God more glory for returning his right mind unto him than most ppl do these days for saving them...

At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever. His dominion is an eternal dominion; his kingdom endures from generation to generation.All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: “What have you done?” At the same time that my sanity was restored, my honor and splendor were returned to me for the glory of my kingdom. My advisers and nobles sought me out, and I was restored to my throne and became even greater than before. Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything he does is right and all his ways are just. And those who walk in pride he is able to humble.[Daniel 4:34-37]

Now, for him to say this, he had to be saved. But he praised God more than ppl do today, and that's really sad.

God not only seat in the driver side, He is King of king, I am seat on the very rear and not worthy to seat in the passenger side, but I know He love every body, me include, not only some but all, He invite all. If He love me why not love other, what so special about me, nothing. He love every body, He is the driver and He invite every body get in His car. Up to them to come or not.

 

[trofimus]

He invite all.

How does He invite all and what do you mean by this invitation?

 

[SovereignGrace]

God not only seat in the driver side, He is King of king, I am seat on the very rear and not worthy to seat in the passenger side, but I know He love every body, me include, not only some but all, He invite all. If He love me why not love other, what so special about me, nothing. He love every body, He is the driver and He invite every body get in His car. Up to them to come or not.

Nope, you're in the driver's seat. Unless you exercised your 'free will' God was helpless to save you. That's what your theology avers, my Brother. No matter how many times He calls, until you do your part, He can not save you. It's the cross + your free will that = your salvation. That equation is foreign to the bible.

 

[Jackson123]

How does He invite all and what do you mean by this invitation?

john 3:16 is invitation to believe in Him and save. He want us to anouce His invitation to all nation.

 

[trofimus]

john 3:16 is invitation to believe in Him and save. He want us to anouce His invitation to all nation.

No, J 3:16 is a verse in the Bible.

I am asking how does God invites all practically, in a real world we live in. For example how did He invite all Chinese in 400 AD or American Indians before Columbus.

Or even your country, it certainly got Gospel, Bible etc quite late and not from the beginning. How were your people invited before that?