For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

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For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 2 8.7%

  • No.

    Votes: 21 91.3%
  • Total voters
    23
He_reigns said:
Well, it may not be clear to others. I was not attacking trofimus, I was seeking clarification.
Click to expand...

And nowhere did I imply you had. Stick to facts and actual statements not drummed up implications to make things appear different than they really are.
 
Regarding babies, mentally disabled people and similar, I think there are three possible views:

1. They are all saved because they do not have any sin. (God elected them all)

2. They are all lost, because they do not have any faith. (God did not elect any of them)

3. Some of them are lost, some of them are saved, based on God's unrevealed election between them.
 
trofimus said:
Regarding babies, mentally disabled people and similar, I think there are three possible views:

1. They are all saved because they do not have any sin. (God elected them all)

2. They are all lost, because they do not have any faith. (God did not elect any of them)

3. Some of them are lost, some of them are saved, based on God's unrevealed election between them.
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And babies saved, God forced them to be saved. They had no will to exercise, so He exercised it for them. :) :D
 
trofimus said:
Regarding babies, mentally disabled people and similar, I think there are three possible views:

1. They are all saved because they do not have any sin. (God elected them all)

2. They are all lost, because they do not have any faith. (God did not elect any of them)

3. Some of them are lost, some of them are saved, based on God's unrevealed election between them.
Click to expand...

Are not even babies, kids, mentally disabled and similar all accountable under Romans 5:12 & EPh 2?
Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

Eph 2:1-3
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, [SUP]2 [/SUP]in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
 
SovereignGrace said:
And babies saved, God forced them to be saved. They had no will to exercise, so He exercised it for them. :) :D
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Babies are innocent. God extends His grace to innocent babies. The self righteous must choose to receive the righteousness of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
He_reigns said:
Are not even babies, kids, mentally disabled and similar all accountable under Romans 5:12 & EPh 2?
Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

Eph 2:1-3
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, [SUP]2 [/SUP]in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
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When did they sin?
 
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SovereignGrace said:
We saw the Light too, and did what was right.

Praise the Lord, I saw the Light!

That's an oldie.
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Yeah, that's and awesome song... But to be clear...I wasn't talking about you or whoever "we" is, in my earlier post...I was talking about Calvin...

From what I have been reading, he definitely did not do what was right, at all...agreeing with putting people to death because they do not believe the same as you is definitely not of Jesus and is not right...
 
trofimus said:
Regarding babies, mentally disabled people and similar, I think there are three possible views:

1. They are all saved because they do not have any sin. (God elected them all)

2. They are all lost, because they do not have any faith. (God did not elect any of them)

3. Some of them are lost, some of them are saved, based on God's unrevealed election between them.
Click to expand...

you shouldn't think of anything about that, it's not your business or anybody elses, it's God's business.
 
SovereignGrace said:
Believing is the effect of being saved, not the cause of it.
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You have it exactly backwards.

Eph 1:
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

People hear, then believe, then are sealed.
 
The elect can become the Unelected real quick, look what happened to satan and the others that followed him and they all went against God, and got thrown out of heaven for their mischievous pride.
 
where does faith come from?

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you.
(Romans 12:3)
​

amen by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God!

The hearing ear, and the seeing eye,
the LORD hath made even both of them.
(Proverbs 20:12)
​

by His word all things were made, and to Him are all thanks, for there is nothing good that is not given by His hand, formed by His will
 
trofimus said:
First, the salvation of children is based on our opinions only, we have no information about this issue. So it is not any part of calvinism' creeds.

Second, you used a wrong logic. If all babies are saved, then all babies were predestined to be saved and are therefore elect. I am not sure how you can think otherwise, like if it was possible for God to loose control.
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God is not in control of who gets saved. He wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish (2 Pet 3:9).

People have free will, and once they hear the gospel, they can choose to believe it, or not.

I'm not sure where people get the idea that babies are automatically saved... If someone knows of a verse, please post it. There is this:

1 Cor 7:
14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

That could be understood to say that the children of unbelievers are not saved ("unclean").
 
shrume said:
God is not in control of who gets saved. He wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish (2 Pet 3:9).

People have free will, and once they hear the gospel, they can choose to believe it, or not.

I'm not sure where people get the idea that babies are automatically saved... If someone knows of a verse, please post it. There is this:

1 Cor 7:
14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

That could be understood to say that the children of unbelievers are not saved ("unclean").
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I think this has some other meaning for sure...Maybe that they receive better instruction if both parents are saved or something, but I definitely don't think it means they are lost and would go to hell if they die. I mean it isn't even saying what age the child is there so with that theory you could say a 30 year old is unclean just because their parents are...

Even in the Old testament God says that he will not punish the Children for their parents mistakes.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
 
trofimus said:
Yes, every my action is predetermined, but God is not active in pushing me to evil.

As already Augustine declared, evil is a privation of being, whereas the action of God tends to the positive.

What does that mean? It means that everything that is created is falling to evil like everything you drop falls to the ground. Its God who makes the positive force by "holding it" in some level of good. His power is used in a positive way while the privation of us tends to evil.

So God actively makes you good (by His grace), but He can just "drop you" a little more and you are going to the evil way, like hurting somebody. This evil originates only in you, God will just let you do it, when it is needed for some higher good.
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I do not understand what you say,

you say every very action you make is predermined, Who predetermine you every action? God or your free will?
 
shrume said:
You have it exactly backwards.

Eph 1:
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

People hear, then believe, then are sealed.
Click to expand...

If you read the text in its context, its very "calvinistic", so to say:

---

"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,e to the praise of his glory."
Eph 1

---

1. We were predestined according to His will
2. Then we heard the gospel
3. Then we believed
4. Then we were sealed with the Holy Spirit.
5. Then we will receive our inheritance.
 
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