I think many of us (myself included) have been saying NO. Though many of us (myself included) may have been a bit long-winded about it.
Sin Confession: A Waste of Breath?
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I think many of us (myself included) have been saying NO. Though many of us (myself included) may have been a bit long-winded about it.
The bible plainly declares that in the last days of the Church Age, many who accepted Christ will fall away from the truth. We must keep free from apostasy which means to fall away from the basic tenets of the Christian Faith. Jesus warns us that there will be massive religious deception in His Name. Beware Of False Doctrine!
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Yes it is very different 
I see no where in scripture where asking God for forgiveness for our sins on a daily basis is part of practical righteousness
Jesus told us about the relationship when he spoke of the vine and the branch. That is analogy to understand.
I see no where in scripture where asking God for forgiveness for our sins on a daily basis is part of practical righteousness
Jesus told us about the relationship when he spoke of the vine and the branch. That is analogy to understand.
H
He_reigns
Guest
Yes it is very different
I see no where in scripture where asking God for forgiveness for our sins on a daily basis is part of practical righteousness
Jesus told us about the relationship when he spoke of the vine and the branch. That is analogy to understand.
So how does relationship work in your walk? I never said one had to do it daily.
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I agree, it is a strawman argument. Here we are, supposedly discussing sin confession, and all I hear is Jesus took care of everything, confession isn't needed, and my "problem" is I don't believe in eternal security.
Some "discussion" this is turned out to be. I'm all wrong from the get-go, and they're right.
IMO, their attitudes give them away. Analyze their methods, and it's easy to determine the rest. When they have to use a strawman, it's a fake.
H
He_reigns
Guest
It is mental assent and its even more rabid and cancerous that that. It is now even a work to tell someone you personally keep believing in what Christ did for you.
Now this is the real funny thing they do not get, they all Cling to eternal security, but the very preachers they tout like Joe Prince, do not believe or teach eternal security.
Actually, Prince does believe in eternal security. So does Andrew Wommack, and Paul Ellis.
H
He_reigns
Guest
When did that change for them? Back in the day when they were all hooked to Copeland and Hagin, they never did.
Thank you for the correction.
When they believe once you accept Christ that it's all over, all future sin forgiven and Jesus refuses to let you go, that's eternal security.
H
He_reigns
Guest
[FONT="]That doesn't jibe with..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17[/FONT]
There has to be a proper way to understand that verse in light of the finished work of Christ on the cross. Since Jesus already took alllll judgment for the Christian. Judgment isn't falling on the Christian anymore. If it did., than for what reason did Jesus come? What did He pay for? What did He suffer for? Partial salvation? No. There is nothing we can add to our salvation to take away any more judgment. Below is an article on this subject. Something to think about;
1 Peter 4:17 – It’s Judgment Time!
Posted on February 24, 2011 by Paul Ellis // 58 Comments
“For it is time for judgment to begin with the house of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?” (1 Pet 4:17)Here’s a passage that seems to come up whenever something bad happens to Christians.
If a pastor stumbles in sin and his church splits, it’s God judging His house.
If an earthquake wipes out a city and some of those who die happen to be Christians, it’s God judging His house.
Some people seem to take perverse delight in threatening others with the sword of God’s judgment. They seem to forget Jesus’ warning in Matthew 26:52.
All of our sins were dealt with at the cross. We have been fully redeemed and sanctified by the blood of the Lamb. There is a day coming when Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats, but this is only bad news if you’re a goat! If you are a sheep it is a day to look forward to with eager anticipation and confidence. Where does this confidence come from? It comes from a revelation of the Father’s love as expressed in the Son’s perfect work on the cross.
cont....
So what is Peter talking about when he says it’s time for judgment to begin with the house of God? I’m going to give you two interpretations. The first interpretation emphasizes things we must do while the second emphasizes things Christ has already done. However, I will first give you the scripture in context:
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.
But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyedwhen his glory is revealed.
If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.
However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.
For it is time for judgment to begin with the house of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. (1 Pet 4:12-19)
So what is Peter talking about when he says it’s time for judgment to begin with the house of God? I’m going to give you two interpretations. The first interpretation emphasizes things we must do while the second emphasizes things Christ has already done. However, I will first give you the scripture in context:
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.
But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyedwhen his glory is revealed.
If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.
However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.
For it is time for judgment to begin with the house of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. (1 Pet 4:12-19)
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cont.......
Interpretation #1: Work harder
There are only two kinds of religion in the world – religion based on our works or religion based on His blood. Someone whose faith rests in human works will interpret the judgment of 1 Peter 4:17 as punishment for Christians. Of course they won’t come right out and say it. They will use words like purification and discipline but what they really mean is condemnation and wrath. They will refer to patterns of judgment in the Old Testament but make no mention of the cross.
They may talk about Ananias and Sapphira but ignore Jesus. Strip away the jargon and their message will be this: “Bad things are going to happen to you. God is behind these bad things, but don’t worry because far worse things are going to happen to sinners.” They may try and pass this off as “good news” by saying it’s better to suffer a little wrath now than hellfire later.
What should we do in response to such a message? More works of course! We should try harder to be better Christians. We should repent more, confess more, and generally straighten up and fly right.
There’s no way around it. If you interpret 1 Peter 4:17 through the lens of works you will end up with a condemning message. “God loves you and because He loves you He’s going to give you a whipping. It’s for your own good.” How is it, then, that in the five verses immediately preceding, Peter uses words and phrases like “rejoice,” “be overjoyed,” “you are blessed” and “praise God that you bear His name”? How in the name of all that is sensible are we supposed to get joyful over a divine whipping? Either Peter has lost touch with reality, or he has something completely different in mind.
Interpretation #1: Work harder
There are only two kinds of religion in the world – religion based on our works or religion based on His blood. Someone whose faith rests in human works will interpret the judgment of 1 Peter 4:17 as punishment for Christians. Of course they won’t come right out and say it. They will use words like purification and discipline but what they really mean is condemnation and wrath. They will refer to patterns of judgment in the Old Testament but make no mention of the cross.
They may talk about Ananias and Sapphira but ignore Jesus. Strip away the jargon and their message will be this: “Bad things are going to happen to you. God is behind these bad things, but don’t worry because far worse things are going to happen to sinners.” They may try and pass this off as “good news” by saying it’s better to suffer a little wrath now than hellfire later.
What should we do in response to such a message? More works of course! We should try harder to be better Christians. We should repent more, confess more, and generally straighten up and fly right.
There’s no way around it. If you interpret 1 Peter 4:17 through the lens of works you will end up with a condemning message. “God loves you and because He loves you He’s going to give you a whipping. It’s for your own good.” How is it, then, that in the five verses immediately preceding, Peter uses words and phrases like “rejoice,” “be overjoyed,” “you are blessed” and “praise God that you bear His name”? How in the name of all that is sensible are we supposed to get joyful over a divine whipping? Either Peter has lost touch with reality, or he has something completely different in mind.
[FONT="]Interpretation #2: Trust God
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
The key to understanding 1 Peter 4:17 is the word “judgment.” In the original Greek this word is krima which means “decision” or “decree.” It’s the decision of a judge or authority. A judgment can be good or bad, in your favor or against you, but in the New Testament krima is usually bad.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
When Peter says it’s judgment time for the church, he is probably referring to the condemning judgment of Nero against the Christians. Look at how Peter describes this judgment:[/FONT]
[FONT="]
v.12: “the fiery suffering among you that is coming to try you”
v.13: “you participate in the sufferings of Christ”
v.14: “you are insulted because of the name of Christ”
v.16. “if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed”
v.19: “(you) who suffer according to God’s will”, meaning for the gospel[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Peter was writing during a time of great persecution. In the beginning, the church only had to worry about persecution from religious folk like Saul. But things have since escalated. Now the state itself is out to get them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Because of Nero – not God – Christians were being tortured and killed for their faith in Christ. Paul was probably dead and Peter himself would soon be crucified. If you were a follower of Christ back then, martyrdom was a very real prospect.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
In light of this awful persecution, Peter seeks to bring a little perspective. He does this by comparing what happens to the righteous (persecution in this life) with what happens to the ungodly (eternal condemnation). Peter says four things:[/FONT]
[FONT="]
(1) Don’t be surprised that you are suffering for the gospel (4:12). If they persecuted Jesus they will persecute you.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
(2) Even though persecution is painful, rejoice on account of the coming glory (4:13). It hurts now, but justice is coming.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
(3) Don’t let these trials cause you to be ashamed – it’s actually a blessing to be insulted on account of Christ’s name (4:14,16).[/FONT]
[FONT="]
(4) In view of this, don’t run and hide (like I once did) but commit yourselves to your faithful Creator and keep doing good (4:19).[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
The key to understanding 1 Peter 4:17 is the word “judgment.” In the original Greek this word is krima which means “decision” or “decree.” It’s the decision of a judge or authority. A judgment can be good or bad, in your favor or against you, but in the New Testament krima is usually bad.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
When Peter says it’s judgment time for the church, he is probably referring to the condemning judgment of Nero against the Christians. Look at how Peter describes this judgment:[/FONT]
[FONT="]
v.12: “the fiery suffering among you that is coming to try you”
v.13: “you participate in the sufferings of Christ”
v.14: “you are insulted because of the name of Christ”
v.16. “if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed”
v.19: “(you) who suffer according to God’s will”, meaning for the gospel[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Peter was writing during a time of great persecution. In the beginning, the church only had to worry about persecution from religious folk like Saul. But things have since escalated. Now the state itself is out to get them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Because of Nero – not God – Christians were being tortured and killed for their faith in Christ. Paul was probably dead and Peter himself would soon be crucified. If you were a follower of Christ back then, martyrdom was a very real prospect.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
In light of this awful persecution, Peter seeks to bring a little perspective. He does this by comparing what happens to the righteous (persecution in this life) with what happens to the ungodly (eternal condemnation). Peter says four things:[/FONT]
[FONT="]
(1) Don’t be surprised that you are suffering for the gospel (4:12). If they persecuted Jesus they will persecute you.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
(2) Even though persecution is painful, rejoice on account of the coming glory (4:13). It hurts now, but justice is coming.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
(3) Don’t let these trials cause you to be ashamed – it’s actually a blessing to be insulted on account of Christ’s name (4:14,16).[/FONT]
[FONT="]
(4) In view of this, don’t run and hide (like I once did) but commit yourselves to your faithful Creator and keep doing good (4:19).[/FONT]
cont... last page
Is Peter saying Christians can lose their salvation?
No he is not. There are two issues here. One is security and the other is fruitfulness. In verse 19 he encourages the believers to commit themselves “to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.” Who is faithful? God is! You may be worried about persecution but you do not need to worry about God letting you go. In the words of Spurgeon, “if he has loved you once he will love you forever.”
The concern is not that Christians could lose their salvation, but that they might be driven underground in fear (3:6,14). This is why Peter urges them to continue doing good (4:17), even in the face of persecution. Peter knew from personal experience what it was like to run from Jesus in fear and he didn’t want his readers doing that. The good news of God’s grace will not be heard unless those who preach it are bold.
A final word on judgment
Jesus said two things about judgment that are relevant here:
“For God sent not the Son into the world to judge (krino) the world…” (Jn 3:17a, ASV)
“For judgment (krima) I have come into this world…” (Jn 9:39)
Jesus did not come to judge the world, yet the world will be judged on account of Jesus. Remember that another word for judgment is decision. Now if Jesus said He is not the one doing the deciding (krino), but that decisions (krima) will be made on account of Him, then who is making these decisions? We are! Every single one of us will either decide to put our faith in Jesus or we won’t. Those who put their faith in Christ are made into a new creation and given His Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing what is to come (2 Cor 5:5,17).
When Jesus returns in glory He will not judge anyone. He will simply separate those who have found their rest in him from those who have chosen to bet on themselves. The Grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, but not all men will put their faith in Him.
Let me finish with three questions for those who still think God is judging/punishing the church or Christchurch or the West.
Is Peter saying Christians can lose their salvation?
No he is not. There are two issues here. One is security and the other is fruitfulness. In verse 19 he encourages the believers to commit themselves “to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.” Who is faithful? God is! You may be worried about persecution but you do not need to worry about God letting you go. In the words of Spurgeon, “if he has loved you once he will love you forever.”
The concern is not that Christians could lose their salvation, but that they might be driven underground in fear (3:6,14). This is why Peter urges them to continue doing good (4:17), even in the face of persecution. Peter knew from personal experience what it was like to run from Jesus in fear and he didn’t want his readers doing that. The good news of God’s grace will not be heard unless those who preach it are bold.
A final word on judgment
Jesus said two things about judgment that are relevant here:
“For God sent not the Son into the world to judge (krino) the world…” (Jn 3:17a, ASV)
“For judgment (krima) I have come into this world…” (Jn 9:39)
Jesus did not come to judge the world, yet the world will be judged on account of Jesus. Remember that another word for judgment is decision. Now if Jesus said He is not the one doing the deciding (krino), but that decisions (krima) will be made on account of Him, then who is making these decisions? We are! Every single one of us will either decide to put our faith in Jesus or we won’t. Those who put their faith in Christ are made into a new creation and given His Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing what is to come (2 Cor 5:5,17).
When Jesus returns in glory He will not judge anyone. He will simply separate those who have found their rest in him from those who have chosen to bet on themselves. The Grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, but not all men will put their faith in Him.
Let me finish with three questions for those who still think God is judging/punishing the church or Christchurch or the West.
- Those who are in Christ are complete (Col 2:10) and perfect forever (He 10:14). If Jesus said He would not judge even the lost(Jn 12:47), why would He judge those He has redeemed and are now reckoned perfect?
- Peter said “Christ died for sins once for all” (1 Pet 3:18). If my sins have been removed and God is now “done with sin” (1 Pet 4:1), then what is left to punish?
- Finally, if the punishment that brought us peace was placed on Christ (Is 53:5), how can God now punish us? Would He not be unjust if He punished twice for the same offence?
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i think its interesting u see..... u are quoting Charles Spurgeon to prove ur point but he would disagree with u..... he would say u gotta confess, repent and the whole package u see...... spurgeon was a reformed preacher through and through.
im telling u guys, its the only way to make it all fit together!
im telling u guys, its the only way to make it all fit together!
I quote a lot of people I don't agree with 100% but can appreciate the truths they DO believe in and talk about. I don't understand people who are of the mindset you seem to have; ALL OR NOTHING. Life does NOT work that way. We do not know it all. Charles Spurgeon didn't know it all but some of the things he did know are worthy of sharing.
We each have bits and parts of different truths about Jesus and we come together and share them and hope to be wiser for it. But if you cut yourself off from those who don't agree 100% with you., you will not learn much.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
you know, some people are expert at taking verses OUT of context
you consider yourself under judgement? well have at it then
I guess you have not read much of this thread
this ENTIRE thread is about confessing our sins before God and keeping a good record...or accounting
God does not keep a record of our sins, if He did, Jesus blood would mean no more than OT sacrifices
have a nice day...
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
well Joanie, we found something to agree on
at last someone you can really talk to you (joking) LOL!
at last someone you can really talk to you (joking) LOL!