Sin Confession: A Waste of Breath?

[joaniemarie]

well Joanie, we found something to agree on

at last someone you can really talk to you (joking) LOL!

Yes., for this moment in time we seem to possibly agree on something! Will wonders never cease??

Well., with God all things are possible!

 

[Crustyone]

I don't know if this has been brought up before, because I haven't read all of the posts, but the simple answer to why we need to confess sin is because Jesus told us to when He told us how to pray through the Lord's Prayer. Matthew 6:9-13 from the NIV:

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.
The underline is, of course, mine.

 

[followjesus]

Why do I have to confess my sins for forgiveness when Jesus as my High Priest was the last and once and for all sacrifice for sin? Not only this, scripture says that He isn't like the priests of old having to often sacrifice for his sins and the people's sins, otherwise He would've suffered since the foundation of the world (since He, Himself, is that very sacrifice; Hebrews 9:25-28).

So, Jesus' blood isn't like the blood of bulls and goats, it actually takes away sin (Hebrews 10:4,10-14). The penalty is paid. There is no other means by which forgiveness of sin occurs, because the shedding of blood must occur in order for sins to experience remission (Hebrews 9:22). Jesus shed His blood for the remission of our sins. Hence, forgiveness for any and all present sin.

If our sin is not forgiven, not to be said without reverence, Christ would have to get back on the cross according to scripture, but as scripture also says, His blood isn't like that of the sacrificial animals and He is an eternal priest, our High Priest (not dying like previous priests and with an eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek). This means that He is able to save us completely because He lives forever interceding on our behalf (Hebrews 7:25).

There are points being made here, but also a question to consider. I understand repentance is still necessary in this life, especially in consideration of things pertaining to life. What we are going to experience, consequences and benefits, etc. Why under the New Covenant would a person seek out forgiveness from God through sin confession when in Christ and through Christ [as our High Priest] we have the forgiveness of sin, and our sins through the shedding of Christ's blood have experienced remission?

Why ask for what we already have? The NT clearly says to forgive others because God for Christ's sake has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). So, instead of glorifying the Advocate and our High Priest, who is the propitiation (the appeasement, if you will) for our sins, as 1 John 2 emphasizes to the "beloved" (that's you and me), why would we make the forgiveness of sin something we have to attain instead of a reality we walk in through Jesus Christ? Why seek forgiveness on an eternal scale through any other avenue than God's Son, in the New Covenant?

PS: This was a response to another thread that I felt could make a good topic. Since I've been thinking of making this thread lately, I decided to copy it from http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/158908-christians-under-grace.html#post3301201 and create this post.

Why do I have to confess my sins for forgiveness when Jesus as my High Priest was the last and once and for all sacrifice for sin?"

simply put Ben, you seem to be saying Jesus is ONLY your sin sacrifice. if that was all Jesus was, you would have a good argument. But as you may be thinking at this point Jesus is Also YOUR LORD. and the reason " you have to ask forgiveness" is because your Lord said to repent and ask for forgvieness, He also said to make sure you forgive others when they sin against you....


its as if you are removing all the teachings of the One God sent to set Judgement in the earth, the One who is also the mediator of the covenant, which means what He said, is the Law of the covenant. He set the conditions, His Word. Jesus is Our atoning sacrifice for sins behind. His doctrine is where forgiveness is found in Christ. He is the Lamb of God, He is not Only the sacrificial Lamb However, He is also the One God promised to send With His everlasting Word.


why would a person have an issue asking forgiveness when the One Who died for it, said to? he is the Lord, Christians need badly to treat Jesus Like thier Lord and simply hear what He says and take it as the word of thier Lord. Jesus laid out everything then He provided for all of it, Having fulfilled what was before, spoken what was after, and paid for it with the shedding of His blood.


i think your answer is found in simplifying who is Jesus to you? a man who died on a cross so you dont need to ask forgiveness??? or is He the precious Lord and savior of your Life, who came to preach and teach the gospel....and then died to sprinkle His blood making His word the covenant>?


He is more than a sacrifice, remember the High priest had authority, and the mediator is the One speaking for God. He is Cjrist and Lord.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I don't know if this has been brought up before, because I haven't read all of the posts, but the simple answer to why we need to confess sin is because Jesus told us to when He told us how to pray through the Lord's Prayer. Matthew 6:9-13 from the NIV:

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.
The underline is, of course, mine.

we flogged this one all over the place too

reading a liitle more from the previous pages would help

not from the beginning, but maybe...oh...6 or 7

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The Spirit wants ALL control and the flesh wants ALL control.The flesh cannot clean the Spirit but the Spirit can clean the flesh.

Someone might ask,can a person be made perfect In their spirit and then sin all they want?That's the Question that people can't take but I'll just say,grace doesn't teach a person to desire to sin.

 

[BenFTW]

The Lord's Prayer = Forgiving others in order to be forgiven (this isn't sin confession).

1 John 1:9 = Confess your sins in order to be forgiven (with a misunderstanding of the verse).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

People point out the Lord's prayer as a source for sin confession, but it isn't even about confessing sin. Its about receiving forgiveness, and only on that count does it merit consideration in this discussion of total forgiveness. It does not, however, come in agreement with sin confession for forgiveness, its another matter entirely.

The Lord's prayer suggests a formula for receiving forgiveness from God, and that formula is that we receive forgiveness from the Father dependent upon our forgiveness of other's trespasses towards us. Now, consider these verses of the Lord's prayer (and formula) in relation to everything we can glean from Hebrews of the total forgiveness of sin we have, how sin is dealt with through bloodshed, and Jesus as our High Priest able to save us completely since He has an eternal priesthood. There seems to be a contradiction, and for this reason, it needs to be resolved.

I want to reemphasize, the Lord's prayer is not about sin confession (nor is it a supporting argument for it). It is however a presented avenue of receiving forgiveness that contradicts (seemingly) the forgiveness we have because of Jesus Christ. How can this be resolved? What are we missing?

Well, I would poise a few questions to you. Are we saved by grace through faith, or works? Do we find in the New Testament, past Jesus' death and resurrection, any mention of forgiving others in order to receive forgiveness? And finally, did Jesus fail to obtain for us forgiveness by the shedding of His blood? Lets take a look at these questions and their implications.

Are we saved by grace through faith or works? How is this relevant to the discussion? Well, forgiveness has been obtained through faith in Jesus Christ, right? How then under the New Covenant must we forgive others in order to receive forgiveness when it is something that has already been granted? Now consider this, think upon it.

If our forgiveness is dependent upon our willingness to forgive others, then salvation is not by grace through faith, but by works. Works being an effort of our own, and that is our willingness to forgive others. Salvation at this point is a wage due and not a free gift because I, personally, met God's criteria of forgiving others so that I would be forgiven. Is Jesus truly my savior when my forgiveness lies in my hands?

Secondly, do we find any mention whatsoever of the necessity to forgive others in order to receive forgiveness from the Father, after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (the beginning of the new covenant)? No, on the contrary we find exactly the opposite.

Ephesians 4:32 King James Version (KJV)

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


Colossians 3:13 King James Version (KJV)

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Please note that we have been, past tense, forgiven and for this reason we ought to forgive. The Lord's prayer says to forgive in order to receive forgiveness, the new covenant post Jesus' death and resurrection says to forgive because you have been forgiven. It is ours, not something we earn. Which we now go to the final question and point.

Did Jesus fail to obtain for us the forgiveness of sins through the shedding of His blood? Well, what does the Word of God says about sin and how it experiences remission?

Hebrews 9:22 King James Version (KJV)

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


Hebrews 10:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

We see then that forgiveness of sin is dependent upon bloodshed and it is through Christ's sacrifice that our sin experienced remission/forgiveness.


Hebrews 10:10-14 King James Version (KJV)

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The implication of these verses is that we are forgiven, Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient and through His bloodshed our sins have experienced remission. How does scripture say we, if you will, apply this to our account? By faith. We believe the Gospel, believe God's account of His Son and the redemptive plan of salvation.

These three questions led us to what conclusion? Our forgiveness is through Jesus Christ as He shed His blood for the remission of our sins, that our salvation is not of our own doing but is by grace through faith (and so our forgiveness is by the Lord, not our willingness to forgive others), and Jesus was, indeed, successful in His mission to reconcile us to the Father. We also see that no where after Jesus died and resurrected and the new covenant was put in place that our forgiveness is dependent upon our willingness to forgive others, rather our forgiveness of others is encouraged by the reality of the forgiveness we have from God for Christ's sake. Amen, hallelujah!

I feel like this can be a separate thread in and of itself. Crusty this would be my response, btw.

 

[Hizikyah]

Psalm 32:5, “I acknowledged my sin to You, And my crookedness I did not hide. I have said, “I confess my transgressions to יהוה,” And You forgave the crookedness of my sin. Selah.”

 

[Crustyone]

Ben, I would answer this part of a post (Well, I would poise a few questions to you. Are we saved by grace through faith, or works? Do we find in the New Testament, past Jesus' death and resurrection, any mention of forgiving others in order to receive forgiveness? And finally, did Jesus fail to obtain for us forgiveness by the shedding of His blood? Lets take a look at these questions and their implications.) that you said answered my post, by referring you to the parable of the Unforgiving Servant. Christ said that it was what Heaven was like and how we would be treated. The servant who would not forgive was sent to prison (Lake of Fire) until his debt was paid, which brings up another fly in the ointment. Will sinners abide in the Lake of Fire forever or be released when their debt is paid?

 

[MarcR]

Ok maybe we are crossing terms, I do not call eternal security OSAS.

I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PJW]

There has to be a proper way to understand that verse in light of the finished work of Christ on the cross. Since Jesus already took alllll judgment for the Christian. Judgment isn't falling on the Christian anymore. If it did., than for what reason did Jesus come? What did He pay for? What did He suffer for? Partial salvation? No. There is nothing we can add to our salvation to take away any more judgment. Below is an article on this subject. Something to think about;

I am hopeful that your POV is based on the fact that Christians don't commit sin after being reborn.
My old life ended on the cross with Christ when I was "immersed" into Him and His death on the cross. (Rom 6:3-7)
For me, the cross was a finishing event. But it is also a starting point for the reborn life to live as Christ lived.
Anything less would infer a false repentance from sin, and you can't have a relationship with God that is based on a lie.

All of our sins were dealt with at the cross. We have been fully redeemed and sanctified by the blood of the Lamb. There is a day coming when Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats, but this is only bad news if you’re a goat! If you are a sheep it is a day to look forward to with eager anticipation and confidence. Where does this confidence come from? It comes from a revelation of the Father’s love as expressed in the Son’s perfect work on the cross.

Amen.
But more sin would show that you were never on that cross.
The sin shows that the "flesh" wasn't killed, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)

 

[pottersclay]

Sin confession is not a waste of breath but it defines who we are. We sin because we are sinners . David said against you o Lord and only you I have sinned.
John reminds us of our advocate Christ Jesus when we sin. Now why would he remind us of that? Are we to shrug our shoulders and say o well better obedience next time?
Jesus died for all sin. There is not a single one that could be committed that wasn't taken care of at Calvary. Save one against the Holy Spirit.
Your sins will find you out saints. We are to walk in the light as he is in the light being transparent and the only way we can do this is confessing to the Lord and if we offended any brother or sister confessing to them our short comings.
Paul said where sin abound grace abounds more... Shall we sin more... God forbid. Thinking that you are not responsible for your actions and owe no apologies to anyone is wreckless religion imo.

 

[PJW]

cont... last page
Let me finish with three questions for those who still think God is judging/punishing the church or Christchurch or the West.

1. Those who are in Christ are complete (Col 2:10) and perfect forever (He 10:14). If Jesus said He would not judge even the lost(Jn 12:47), why would He judge those He has redeemed and are now reckoned perfect?
2. Peter said “Christ died for sins once for all” (1 Pet 3:18). If my sins have been removed and God is now “done with sin” (1 Pet 4:1), then what is left to punish?
3. Finally, if the punishment that brought us peace was placed on Christ (Is 53:5), how can God now punish us? Would He not be unjust if He punished twice for the same offence?

Thank God for making a way to live without sin.
Thank God!

 

[PJW]

I quote a lot of people I don't agree with 100% but can appreciate the truths they DO believe in and talk about. I don't understand people who are of the mindset you seem to have; ALL OR NOTHING. Life does NOT work that way. We do not know it all. Charles Spurgeon didn't know it all but some of the things he did know are worthy of sharing.

We each have bits and parts of different truths about Jesus and we come together and share them and hope to be wiser for it. But if you cut yourself off from those who don't agree 100% with you., you will not learn much.

It is written.."[FONT=&quot]A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.[/FONT]" (Gal 5:9[FONT=&quot])
Be careful who you quote.[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

you know, some people are expert at taking verses OUT of context
you consider yourself under judgement? well have at it then

I don't consider myself under judgement.
The wages for my sins was death, and I was paid that wage when I was crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6, 23)

I guess you have not read much of this thread
this ENTIRE thread is about confessing our sins before God and keeping a good record...or accounting

Accounting isn't necessary when the new creature cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:9)

God does not keep a record of our sins, if He did, Jesus blood would mean no more than OT sacrifices

Thank God for a way to live without sin!

 

[PJW]

The Spirit wants ALL control and the flesh wants ALL control.The flesh cannot clean the Spirit but the Spirit can clean the flesh.

Someone might ask,can a person be made perfect In their spirit and then sin all they want?That's the Question that people can't take but I'll just say,grace doesn't teach a person to desire to sin.

Thank God for the scriptures that explain the death of the "flesh".
Like Gal 5:24..."[FONT=&quot]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
[/FONT]And 1 Peter 4:1..."[FONT=&quot]Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

Psalm 32:5, “I acknowledged my sin to You, And my crookedness I did not hide. I have said, “I confess my transgressions to יהוה,” And You forgave the crookedness of my sin. Selah.”

Thank God we don't live in the OT anymore!
Jesus made a way to live without committing sin...thanks be to God!

 

[Crustyone]

I don't consider myself under judgement.
The wages for my sins was death, and I was paid that wage when I was crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6, 23)


Accounting isn't necessary when the new creature cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:9)


Thank God for a way to live without sin!

The new spirit of a saved individual cannot commit sin, but the flesh of that spirit can, as explained in Romans chapter seven. The spirit has been saved from punishment, but not the fleshly body. On this earth we are told that all will be punished with no exception. Colossians 3:23-25 [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.[/FONT]

 

[preacher4truth]

Accounting isn't necessary when the new creature cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:9)


Thank God for a way to live without sin!

You don't live without sin in addition to your misunderstanding and subsequent misapplication of 1 John 3:9.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I don't consider myself under judgement.
The wages for my sins was death, and I was paid that wage when I was crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6, 23)


Accounting isn't necessary when the new creature cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:9)


Thank God for a way to live without sin!

oh you don't consider yourself under judgement?

you just tell everyone else they are...by quoting judgement starts at the house of God

got it

but then of course you seem to be posting about sinless perfectionism

and we're off.................

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Thank God we don't live in the OT anymore!
Jesus made a way to live without committing sin...thanks be to God!

~ we don't even live in the New Testament

kind of you to go around correcting absolutely everyone

good thing you joined

sinless people are so rare