Not By Works

dcontroversal · Oct 14, 2017

It amazes me....how ONE can believe for one second that that which was designed to prove GUILT before GOD can be used to JUSTIFY before GOD......THE LAW proves the guilt of men and shuts every mouth before God (Romans 3) and will NEVER justify a flea or man for that matter before GOD because NO MAN except JESUS can or could keep the law......

The just shall live by faith<-----IT DOES NOT SAY LAW KEEPING!

WE conclude a man is justified BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS<---HOW simple is this....so simple that men will twist, embellish, make void by their additions of law and works which results in a message with no power to save or justify before GOD

Studyman · Oct 14, 2017

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

And how were sin's justified by the Law of Moses? Was it the 10 Commandments that justified our sins? How about the Holy Days? No, these define sin, they do not justify sin.

The Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "Works, Deeds of the Law" justified sin. And Jesus forgave sin's without shedding one drop of goats blood. And the Gentiles were given the Holy Spirit and forgiven their sin's without one drop of goats blood.

This was a big deal and the Mainstream Church of that time could not accept it. This is the New Covenant. No more animal sacrifice and Levitical Priesthood ceremonies for remission and justification of sins. But Faith in Jesus blood to cleanse us.

Can you see what I am showing here?

BillG · Oct 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

It amazes me....how ONE can believe for one second that that which was designed to prove GUILT before GOD can be used to JUSTIFY before GOD......THE LAW proves the guilt of men and shuts every mouth before God (Romans 3) and will NEVER justify a flea or man for that matter before GOD because NO MAN except JESUS can or could keep the law......

The just shall live by faith<-----IT DOES NOT SAY LAW KEEPING!

WE conclude a man is justified BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS<---HOW simple is this....so simple that men will twist, embellish, make void by their additions of law and works which results in a message with no power to save or justify before GOD

I know how a man is justified but not how a flea is

dcontroversal · Oct 14, 2017

Studyman said:

And how were sin's justified by the Law of Moses? Was it the 10 Commandments that justified our sins? How about the Holy Days? No, these define sin, they do not justify sin.

The Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "Works, Deeds of the Law" justified sin. And Jesus forgave sin's without shedding one drop of goats blood. And the Gentiles were given the Holy Spirit and forgiven their sin's without one drop of goats blood.

This was a big deal and the Mainstream Church of that time could not accept it. This is the New Covenant. No more animal sacrifice and Levitical Priesthood ceremonies for remission and justification of sins. But Faith in Jesus blood to cleanse us.

Can you see what I am showing here?

The bolded never did lead to the underlined........

dcontroversal · Oct 14, 2017

BillG said:

When they are crushed, drowned or killed with spray or powder

Studyman · Oct 14, 2017

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

Again, "by the deeds of the Law". What were these deeds? Were they not Levitical Priesthood ceremonial and sacrificial "Deeds of the Law" for the remission of sins?

Therefore by the deeds of the law(required animal sacrifice) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.( Levitical Priesthood ceremonies)

Gal. 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, (Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "Works" for the remission of sins) or by the hearing of faith?

Can you see?

eternally-gratefull · Oct 14, 2017

Studyman said:

no animal sacrifice and levitical priesthood ceremonies ever caused remission or justification of sin, ever in the history of mankind. As the author of hebrews says, the blood of Bulls and goats could NEVER take away sin.

Amberlight · Oct 14, 2017

mailmandan said:

And it is very puzzling to think how people miss the whole point Jesus was making about faith and how his sacrifice released us from the unattainable law of Moses.

But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment.

“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

VCO · Oct 14, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

When and how we become perfect:

Revelation 3:2 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.

Philippians 1:6 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 John 3:2 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

That is when and how we become Perfect, and anything this side of our immortal, glorified bodies is imperfect.

BillG · Oct 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Do you know what the last thing that goes through a fleas mind as it hits the windscreen of a car?

Its butt

VCO · Oct 14, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

GOD IS NOT FINISHED WITH ISRAEL, and Gentile Believers ARE NOT ISRAEL. The concept that we become spiritual Israelites because we have the faith of Abraham purely is FALSE DOCTRINE FROM A FALSE PROPHET. ABRAHAM was NOT an Israelite, he was from UR of the CHALDEES. If you want to think you become a spiritual Chaldean because you have the Faith of Abraham, go ahead, but I will believe GOD:

Genesis 17:5 (CSBBible)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Your name will no longer be Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I will make you the father of many nations.

Romans 12:3 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

Hizikyah · Oct 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Yahshua/Jesus kept the Law perfectly and He was the most loving person to ever walk the earth.

You paint justification over a righteous walk, some obey because they love Yah.

The Law shows us what not to do (sin) and what to do (love), for it is written;

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

(goal)is word #G5056 –télos; Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Studyman · Oct 14, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Very true, but it was part of the Law of Moses just the same. My point is that these were the "works of the Law" that fore shadowed the sacrifice of Christ. These were the "works of the Law" created by God, given to Moses and "ADDED" till the seed should come.

These are the "Deeds or Work's" of the Law that Paul is speaking to in Romans and Galatians.

It is just a Biblical fact that before Jesus, ones sins were forgiven by going to a Levite Priest who then performed ceremonies and sacrificial "Works" for the remission of sins. We know it was symbolic of Christ's Blood and perfect sacrifice, but the law was still there.

But when Jesus came, He ushered in a New Covenant. No longer was it necessary for the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "Works or Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins, now we are cleansed by His Blood through Faith which is shown by our works. (See Hebrew 7-10 which clearly speaks to this "priesthood")

the definition of sin has not changed, just the way we are cleansed from it.

BillG · Oct 14, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Yahshua/Jesus kept the Law perfectly and He was the most loving person to ever walk the earth.

You paint justification over a righteous walk, some obey because they love Yah.

The Law shows us what not to do (sin) and what to do (love), for it is written;

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

(goal)is word #G5056 –télos; Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Hi Hizikyah.

Can I just ask you why you say Yah.

Not a trick question just wondering why.

Amberlight · Oct 14, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Yahshua/Jesus kept the Law perfectly and He was the most loving person to ever walk the earth.

You paint justification over a righteous walk, some obey because they love Yah.

The Law shows us what not to do (sin) and what to do (love), for it is written;

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

(goal)is word #G5056 –télos; Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

We Christians are not under law of Moses how many times do we have to say this.

BillG · Oct 14, 2017

Just asking the question if I may.

When people say the law of Moses what do they beleive it to be?

Speak2Me · Oct 14, 2017

Hizikyah said:

You can't have one without the other.
James says it brings death to faith if it has no works.
Besides that, these works have nothing to do with the 'works of the Law'.

Studyman · Oct 14, 2017

VCO said:

Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Do you preach this isn't instruction for all mankind?

eternally-gratefull · Oct 14, 2017

Studyman said:

Very true, but it was part of the Law of Moses just the same. My point is that these were the "works of the Law" that fore shadowed the sacrifice of Christ. These were the "works of the Law" created by God, given to Moses and "ADDED" till the seed should come.

These are the "Deeds or Work's" of the Law that Paul is speaking to in Romans and Galatians.

It is just a Biblical fact that before Jesus, ones sins were forgiven by going to a Levite Priest who then performed ceremonies and sacrificial "Works" for the remission of sins. We know it was symbolic of Christ's Blood and perfect sacrifice, but the law was still there.

But when Jesus came, He ushered in a New Covenant. No longer was it necessary for the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "Works or Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins, now we are cleansed by His Blood through Faith which is shown by our works. (See Hebrew 7-10 which clearly speaks to this "priesthood")

the definition of sin has not changed, just the way we are cleansed from it.

Again, No ones sins were forgiven by going to any priest, As david himself said when he confessed his own sin, Sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire.

Yes they foreshadowed. But only the death of Christ took away all sin from Adam until the last sin ever commited.

Hizikyah · Oct 14, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Psalm 40:6-8, “Sacrifice and meal offering You did not desire; You have opened my ears; Burnt offering and sin offering You did not ask for. Then I said, “See, I have come; In the scroll of the Book it is prescribed for me. I have delighted to do Your pleasure, O my Strength, And Your Torah is within my heart.”

Hebrew 10:5-7, “Therefore, coming into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and meal offering You did not desire, but a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and offerings for sin You did not delight. Then I said, ‘See, I come – in the roll of the book it has been written concerning Me – to do Your desire, O Yah.’”

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