Not By Works

[Hizikyah]

You can't have one without the other.
James says it brings death to faith if it has no works.
Besides that, these works have nothing to do with the 'works of the Law'.

Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"




James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing of the Law.”



James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”

 

[Amberlight]

Again, No ones sins were forgiven by going to any priest, As david himself said when he confessed his own sin, Sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire.

Yes they foreshadowed. But only the death of Christ took away all sin from Adam until the last sin ever commited.

A levite priest had power to forgive sins well that almost made me fall of the chair.

Only GOD can forgive sins.

 

[Studyman]

Again, No ones sins were forgiven by going to any priest, As david himself said when he confessed his own sin, Sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire.

Yes they foreshadowed. But only the death of Christ took away all sin from Adam until the last sin ever commited.

Yes,

God desires obedience over sacrifice. That is clearly His will.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

I am just trying to show you what the "works of the law" was that Paul was speaking to. So if God didn't desire sacrifice, why the Levitical Priesthood then?

Paul asks and answers the same question.

Gal. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

What promise?

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

But Abraham didn't have the Levitical Priesthood, is was "Added" 430 years later.


18 For if the inheritance be of the law,(Levitical Priesthood) it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Why? See Gen. 26.


19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Transgression of what? God's universal Laws that Abraham was blessed for keeping.

It is this "Added" Law, the Levitical Priesthood with it's sacrificial, ceremonial sacrifices used for the remission of sins "Until the Seed should come", that Paul is speaking of.

Gal. 1:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law,(Levitical Priesthood sacrifices that the Jews were still pushing) or by the hearing of faith?

Whose Faith? The faith of Abraham? Which was the Faith of Jesus the man, which was the Faith of David, which was the Faith of Stephen, Peter, Paul.

Eph. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes,

God desires obedience over sacrifice. That is clearly His will.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

I am just trying to show you what the "works of the law" was that Paul was speaking to. So if God didn't desire sacrifice, why the Levitical Priesthood then?

Paul asks and answers the same question.

Gal. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

What promise?

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

But Abraham didn't have the Levitical Priesthood, is was "Added" 430 years later.


18 For if the inheritance be of the law,(Levitical Priesthood) it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Why? See Gen. 26.


19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Transgression of what? God's universal Laws that Abraham was blessed for keeping.

It is this "Added" Law, the Levitical Priesthood with it's sacrificial, ceremonial sacrifices used for the remission of sins "Until the Seed should come", that Paul is speaking of.

Gal. 1:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law,(Levitical Priesthood sacrifices that the Jews were still pushing) or by the hearing of faith?

Whose Faith? The faith of Abraham? Which was the Faith of Jesus the man, which was the Faith of David, which was the Faith of Stephen, Peter, Paul.

Eph. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Yes GOD desires obedience over sacrifice. But yet we have sinned, thus there has to be a way of atonement. Since no one can obey as God requires as proven by the law (the schoolmaster)

 

[BillG]

Yes,

God desires obedience over sacrifice. That is clearly His will.

Hi Studyman.

I would ask “Does God desire obedience over sacrifice?

I would have to say no

Psalms 51:16-17
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

God desires a broken and contrite heart.
Out of that obedience will follow.
God can deal with a heart that seeks after him, like David, like you and me.

As I said for me he desires a heart after him rather than obedience with no heart connection. Just like the Pharisees.

Please note I am not calling you a Pharisee but just wanted to give my thoughts on your post.

 

[VCO]

When they are crushed, drowned or killed with spray or powder

You forgot one. When they are eaten.

 

[VCO]

And how were sin's justified by the Law of Moses? Was it the 10 Commandments that justified our sins? How about the Holy Days? No, these define sin, they do not justify sin.

The Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "Works, Deeds of the Law" justified sin. And Jesus forgave sin's without shedding one drop of goats blood. And the Gentiles were given the Holy Spirit and forgiven their sin's without one drop of goats blood.


This was a big deal and the Mainstream Church of that time could not accept it. This is the New Covenant. No more animal sacrifice and Levitical Priesthood ceremonies for remission and justification of sins. But Faith in Jesus blood to cleanse us.

Can you see what I am showing here?

Romans 5:8-10 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.



NO ONE, can claim to have participated in any part of JUSTIFICATION.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Samuel 15:22, “Then Shemu’ĕl said, “Does [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]delight in ascending offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? Look, to obey is better than sacrifice, to heed is better than the fat of rams.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Micah 6:8, “He has declared to you, O man, what is right. And what does [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]require of you but to do right, and to love loving-commitment, and to walk humbly with your Father?”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 51:16-17, “For You do not desire slaughtering, or I would give it; You do not delight in ascending offering. The s [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sacrifices[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] of YHWH are a broken spirit, A heart broken and crushed, O Yah, These You do not despise.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”[/FONT]

 

[VCO]

You forgot one. When they are eaten.

I WONDER? HOW MANY FLEAS IN A SPOONFUL OF GRITS?


For those who do not know, Grits are a popular dish served in the South East part of the USA, frequently as a breakfast dish. Yes they live up to their name, as they are a bit gritty.

Grits are a food made from corn that is ground into a coarse meal and then boiled.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yahshua/Jesus kept the Law perfectly and He was the most loving person to ever walk the earth.

You paint justification over a righteous walk, some obey because they love Yah.

The Law shows us what not to do (sin) and what to do (love), for it is written;

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."


(goal)is word #G5056 –télos; Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)


HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

The comment that I paint justification over a righteous walk is ignorant....

NO ONE can walk righteous unless they have been SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SANCTIFIED POSITIONALLY and Sealed by the Spirit of promise.....

ANY righteous walk or work is the direct result of the 4 listed above and being in CHRIST.....wake up....KEEPING THE LAW JUSTIFIES NO ONE because You cannot keep the law....you offend in ONE SMALL POINT you are guilty of the whole....do you not understand that one white lie makes you as guilty as a murderer, adulterer, thief etc....

The LAW CONDEMNS....and I dare to say that most in the O.T. probably obeyed to avoid the PUNISHMENTS and not because they loved.........

 

[dcontroversal]

We Christians are not under law of Moses how many times do we have to say this.

We can say it a million and one times and it will not matter to those who wish to remain under bondage......

 

[Hizikyah]

The comment that I paint justification over a righteous walk is ignorant....

NO ONE can walk righteous unless they have been SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SANCTIFIED POSITIONALLY and Sealed by the Spirit of promise.....

ANY righteous walk or work is the direct result of the 4 listed above and being in CHRIST.....wake up....KEEPING THE LAW JUSTIFIES NO ONE because You cannot keep the law....you offend in ONE SMALL POINT you are guilty of the whole....do you not understand that one white lie make you as guilty as a murderer, adulterer, thief etc....

The LAW CONDEMNS....and I dare to say that most in the O.T. probably obeyed to avoid the PUNISHMENTS and not because they loved.........

You are not getting what I am saying. Some obey Yah Commands/Law/Instructions/Torah because it is the right way to live, and they want to live for Yah. You seem to ignore this and go straight to justificaion by works. I assume this is why you seem to ignore or not believe many Scriptures like the following;

If not can you tell me your understanding of these 3 passages;

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

DC is this true:

Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

 

[Hizikyah]

We can say it a million and one times and it will not matter to those who wish to remain under bondage......

Sin is bondage, righteous Laws of Yah are righteous.

Isayah 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil righteous, and righteous evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 John 5:2-3 (ESV), "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

Psalm 19:7-11, “The Torah of יהוה is perfect, bringing back the being; The witness of יהוה is trustworthy, making wise the simple; The orders of יהוה are straight, rejoicing the heart; The command of יהוה is clear, enlightening the eyes; The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether, More desirable than gold, Than much fine gold; And sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. Also, Your servant is warned by them, In guarding them there is great reward.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7 -[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7 -[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]22 For I delight in the Law of YHWH according to the inward man;[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]25 Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

You are not getting what I am saying. Some obey Yah Commands/Law/Instructions/Torah because it is the right way to live, and they want to live for Yah. You seem to ignore this and go straight to justificaion by works. I assume this is why you seem to ignore or not believe many Scriptures like the following;

If not can you tell me your understanding of these 3 passages;

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”




1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

I ignore nothing pal.....the truth is simple...faith alone saves, justifies, sanctifies positionally and seals by the H.S........ANY WORK OF RIGHTEOUNESS is the RESULT of the 4 listed.....they do not embellish or add to what is already given and applied by faith.....how is it that you do not understand this...JESUS WORKS IN US AND THROUGH US as a LIVING SACRIFICE.....we have been SET FREE from the bondage and condemnation of the LAW.....and the righteousnesss of the LAW without the LAW has been imputed to a believer BY FAITH......that is what you cannot grasp because you cannot see the forest of faith because of the trees of LAW that you think you keep!

 

[Hizikyah]

You are not getting what I am saying. Some obey Yah Commands/Law/Instructions/Torah because it is the right way to live, and they want to live for Yah. You seem to ignore this and go straight to justificaion by works. I assume this is why you seem to ignore or not believe many Scriptures like the following;

If not can you tell me your understanding of these 3 passages;

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”




1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

I ignore nothing pal.....the truth is simple...faith alone saves, justifies, sanctifies positionally and seals by the H.S........ANY WORK OF RIGHTEOUNESS is the RESULT of the 4 listed.....they do not embellish or add to what is already given and applied by faith.....how is it that you do not understand this...JESUS WORKS IN US AND THROUGH US as a LIVING SACRIFICE.....we have been SET FREE from the bondage and condemnation of the LAW.....and the righteousnesss of the LAW without the LAW has been imputed to a believer BY FAITH......that is what you cannot grasp because you cannot see the forest of faith because of the trees of LAW that you think you keep!

You are still not giving your view or commentary on these verses.

the trees of LAW that you think you keep!

But turn to accusation...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 35:11, “Ruthless witnesses rise up; They ask me that which I knew not.”[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

You are still not giving your view or commentary on these verses.




But turn to accusation...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 35:11, “Ruthless witnesses rise up; They ask me that which I knew not.”[/FONT]

Kind of like you accusing in the above post......with your Isaiah quote......

 

[Hizikyah]

Kind of like you accusing in the above post......with your Isaiah quote......

You call Yah's Laws bondage, they are not, sin is bondage. Yet you basically say that im try to be justified by works, something I have never claimed, yet you have called His Laws bondage...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:151-152, “You are near, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And all Your commands are truth. Of old I have known Your witnesses, That You have founded them forever.”[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

You are not getting what I am saying. Some obey Yah Commands/Law/Instructions/Torah because it is the right way to live, and they want to live for Yah. You seem to ignore this and go straight to justificaion by works. I assume this is why you seem to ignore or not believe many Scriptures like the following;

If not can you tell me your understanding of these 3 passages;

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Could you please give me you view of these passages? This may clear up the disagreement here.

 

[dcontroversal]

You call Yah's Laws bondage, they are not, sin is bondage. Yet you basically say that im try to be justified by works, something I have never claimed, yet you have called His Laws bondage...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:151-152, “You are near, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And all Your commands are truth. Of old I have known Your witnesses, That You have founded them forever.”[/FONT]

Argue with the bible.....the Law brings condemnation and all who place themselves under it place themselves under bondage because no one can keep the law and it proves your guilt.....so...quit lying (sin) and bearing false witness (sin) and falsly accusing (sin) <---all according to the law you place yourself under!

 

[Hizikyah]

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us."

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

1 Yahanan/John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."