Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Context, stones, context! You're ignoring an essential part of the passage:

"24As for you (in contrast to those who left--vs.19), let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:24 NASB)​

OSAS always leaves out this essential part of the passage that defies the automatic conclusion of OSAS that once you believe and are saved you will always be in Christ and, therefore, saved. It's like a blindness.

Yep...you should learn to rightfully use context and divide the truth......and read the rest of the chapter....this does not say a believer can lose salvation....more cake taking and pitting scripture against scripture to spread you cracker jack false ideology.....!

 

[VCO]

Obviously you have used the scriptures to defend your doctrine and I appreciate it and Amen to those verses. Maybe you can also show me where I can read the verses that says "FAITH ALONE SAVES VOID OF WORKS and ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED."

Our Lord Jesus instructed the rich young man to obey the commandments, does that also make Him a works salvationist the same way you call those who are obedient, good and faithful servants of God?
. . .

WRONG, my doctrinal Beliefs were CONFORMED TO WHAT THE SCRIPTURES ACTUALLY SAY.

With the Young Rich man, JESUS was NOT pointing out how we can SAVE OURSELVES, but RATHER, JESUS, was pointing out the PRIMARY Stumbling Block that would CAUSE THE YOUNG RICH MAN TO FAIL at Saving Himself.

 

[dcontroversal]

Please define how you were saved and how you know it.

He was being sarcastic.....

 

[dcontroversal]

WRONG, my doctrinal Beliefs were CONFORMED TO WHAT THE SCRIPTURES ACTUALLY SAY.

With the Young Rich man, JESUS was NOT pointing out how we can SAVE OURSELVES, but RATHER, JESUS, was pointing out the PRIMARY Stumbling Block that would CAUSE THE YOUNG RICH MAN TO FAIL at Saving Himself.

AMEN......all that is written about the law and how grace directly opposes law and yet the lawyers, workers for, and Pharisees will still push a blend which has no power to save......only the foolish and bewitched believe such a gospel of a different kind.....

 

[Studyman]

Please define how you were saved and how you know it.

I was being sarcastic in response to a friends sarcastic post. Thus the funny crazy faces at the bottom.

I am being saved, I am not already saved as "MANY" preach. Matt. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

It isn't the end yet VCO.


John 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom. 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


1 Cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

I could go on and on.

So how do I know I'm being saved?

I use the test Jesus had written for me.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

And again in James.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.



23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:


24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. (prone to sin)


25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, (Endure till the end)he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. (Shall be saved)




Sorry about the sarcasm, I should have qualified it as such. I hope I answered your question.

 

[dcontroversal]

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

PAST TENSE......I suggest all who are not saved yet to actually trust JESUS...the bible speaks to this.....

Was Saved
I AM Saved Right NOW
I AM Being Saved into the Future

A present continuing result from a past completed action.

Matthew 24 is not speaking of salvation as applied unto the soul/spirit of man.........WAKE UP....not every place the bible uses saved is it speaking of being saved from sin and the consequences of sin!

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 12:1-2, “I call upon you, therefore, brothers, through the compassion of Yah, to present your bodies a living offering – set-apart, well-pleasing to Yah – your reasonable worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you prove what is that good and well-pleasing and perfect desire of Yah.”[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Micah 6:8, “He has declared to you, O man, what is right. And what does [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]require of you but to do right, and to love loving-commitment, and to walk humbly with your Father?”[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

Romans 12:1-2, “I call upon you, therefore, brothers, through the compassion of Yah, to present your bodies a living offering – set-apart, well-pleasing to Yah – your reasonable worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you prove what is that good and well-pleasing and perfect desire of Yah.”

And who disagrees with this? No one that I know of......

 

[PHart]

Amen and I have yet to see a worker for accurately describe works of wood, hay and stubble of a saved man in light of the fact that works of gold, silver and precious stones = a saved, faithful servant of Jesus.

I'm not a 'worker for' but I did accurately describe for you the works of wood, hay, and stubble that get burned up for the saved man and who retains his salvation despite him having no works of gold and silver, but you are looking for what is accurate according to what you already have decided to be the accurate description.

If the man in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is still saved despite a lifetime of (dead) works (wood, hay, and stubble) that get burned up and he doesn't have any works of gold and precious stones to go through the fire with him at the coming Judgment then we know that the hay, wood, and stubble, and the gold, silver, and precious stones are not works of righteousness and unrighteousness. How? Because the person who gets to the Judgment without works of righteousness is not a saved person. You can't argue with this either because many of you have been arguing that the saved WILL have works of righteousness. So, that being true, and that you agree with it, how is it that Paul can say people who have no works of silver and gold are saved people? He can't, of course.

So what are the works of the laborer in the building of God that will either perish in or survive the fires of the coming Judgment while the worker himself is spared? They are the people for whom he labored in the hope they would become precious and imperishable stones and metals that withstand fire, the fire of the coming purging by fire.

Some people we teach and peach to in the hope of adding them to the household of God will believe and continue to believe to the very end and they will pass safely through the coming purging of the ungodly from the universe by fire (2 Peter 3:7). They will be the worker's reward for his labor in the field and building of God (1 Thessalonians 2:19-20). A building and temple and city comprised of living stones able to withstand the fire of Judgment, like metal (Numbers 31:22-23) and precious stones, and in which God dwells and has set his name on, the New Jerusalem (1 Peter 2:5, Revelation 21:10-11).

But those people we teach and preach to who do not believe, or who do not continue to believe to the very end will be as hay, wood, and stubble at the Judgment and they will be burned up and not pass through the Judgment to be a reward for the laborer who worked to add them to the building and temple of God (Isaiah 33:11-12, Isaiah 47:14, Psalm 1:4-5).

 

[PHart]

Yep...you should learn to rightfully use context and divide the truth......and read the rest of the chapter....this does not say a believer can lose salvation....

And yet, as usual, you offer none of this additional scripture to defend your assertion.

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm not a 'worker for' but I did accurately describe for you the works of wood, hay, and stubble that get burned up for the saved man and who retains his salvation despite him having no works of gold and silver, but you are looking for what is accurate according to what you already have decided to be the accurate description.

If the man in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is still saved despite a lifetime of (dead) works (wood, hay, and stubble) that get burned up and he doesn't have any works of gold and precious stones to go through the fire with him at the coming Judgment then we know that the hay, wood, and stubble, and the gold, silver, and precious stones are not works of righteousness and unrighteousness. How? Because the person who gets to the Judgment without works of righteousness is not a saved person. You can't argue with this either because many of you have been arguing that the saved WILL have works of righteousness. So, that being true, and that you agree with it, how is it that Paul can say people who have no works of silver and gold are saved people? He can't, of course.

So what are the works of the laborer in the building of God that will either perish in or survive the fires of the coming Judgment while the worker himself is spared? They are the people for whom he labored in the hope they would become precious and imperishable stones and metals that withstand fire, the fire of the coming purging by fire.

Some people we teach and peach to in the hope of adding them to the household of God will believe and continue to believe to the very end and they will pass safely through the coming purging of the ungodly from the universe by fire (2 Peter 3:7). They will be the worker's reward for his labor in the field and building of God (1 Thessalonians 2:19-20). A building and temple and city comprised of living stones able to withstand the fire of Judgment, like metal (Numbers 31:22-23) and precious stones, and in which God dwells and has set his name on, the New Jerusalem (1 Peter 2:5, Revelation 21:10-11).

But those people we teach and preach to who do not believe, or who do not continue to believe to the very end will be as hay, wood, and stubble at the Judgment and they will be burned up and not pass through the Judgment to be a reward for the laborer who worked to add them to the building and temple of God (Isaiah 33:11-12, Isaiah 47:14, Psalm 1:4-5).

Sure I can.....and Corinthians is clear...so is the saved state of the fornicator cut lose for the destruction of the flesh.....both have done the works of the Father.....they have believed in the one sent......your cracker jack dogma will never be accepted by those who can read and discern the truth....

 

[dcontroversal]

And yet, as usual, you offer none of this additional scripture to defend your assertion.

Sure I did....see if you can take your self saving rose colored glasses off and figure it out....here I will post again for you.

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Yep...you should learn to rightfully use context and divide the truth......and read the rest of the chapter....this does not say a believer can lose salvation....

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.” [/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"every man" is word #1538 – hekastos - Strong's Concordance hekastos: each, every Original Word: ἕκαστος, η, ον Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: hekastos Phonetic Spelling: (hek'-as-tos) Short Definition: each, every one Definition: each (of more than two), every one.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.” [/FONT]

 

[PHart]

No idea that actually genuine believers can struggle with sin and maybe don’t overcome but seek Jesus in help and humilty.

Which is exactly why they remain saved despite their struggle with besetting sin--they still believe in and trust in Jesus for deliverance. And they will get it, because God is able to do that. But the person who abandons dependence on Christ and returns to the world as the response to their struggle with the temptations and trials and loves of this world will be lost, not saved on the Day of Judgment. No prior confession of trust in Christ will save them. They don't believe in Christ anymore for his sacrifice to be remaining for them to rescue them from the coming wrath of God on his enemies (Hebrews 10:26-31).

 

[PeterJens]

I was thinking about the attitude of the heart, when considering certain responses that
seem to recur constantly. It is as if a person is labelled, and whatever they say, is ignored,
just the filter for how can I oppose and attack them.

So a verse like Peter declaring believers are Holy and should live Holy lives, or Paul saying
he expects believers to raise holy alms up to heaven in prayer are just ignored.

It is because the core focus is to defend against resolving sin and emotions from the past,
which must be denied and ignored to keep going. It is why being honest and straightforward
just passes them by, and getting upset about a phrase or tone is the order of the day.

Jesus said simply, do not take offence. If they want your coat, offer you shirt also. If they
want you to carry something one mile, carry it two. It is not an onerous task, but a pleasure
to be of service.

The world is full of the lost and those distracted. They cannot stop the gospel because they
have not understood it. So those who think legalism has caused problems, are just deluded.

It has always been sin and hurt, hard hearts and deaf ears. Once you see there is only one
reality, service and praise to the King, there is nothing that is an issue, because whether we
stay here or are called home, it is in His hands. Amen, that He cares so much for His children,
this is all we need to know and reach out and accept His helping hand.

 

[dcontroversal]

Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before יהוה. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.”



"every man" is word #1538 – hekastos - Strong's Concordance hekastos: each, every Original Word: ἕκαστος, η, ον Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: hekastos Phonetic Spelling: (hek'-as-tos) Short Definition: each, every one Definition: each (of more than two), every one.


Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.”

Yep.....and those in Rev 20 are not saved......obvious by the context....two judgments....one for the saved "BEMA SEAT" one for the LOST "GREAT WHITE THRONE"

 

[PHart]

Sure I can.....and Corinthians is clear...so is the saved state of the fornicator cut lose for the destruction of the flesh.....both have done the works of the Father.....they have believed in the one sent......

Then why did the fornicator have to satisfy a condition in order to be saved if he was as you claim, already permanently and irreversibly saved?

 

[Seohce]

QUOTE: Dr. John MacArthur, Jr., "A Christians is not sinless, but as he or she matures spiritually, they will SIN LESS, AND LESS, AND LESS.

Spiritual Maturity is NOT instantaneous, it is a life long growing process.

2 Peter 1:3-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] His divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] By these He has given us very great and precious promises, so that through them you may share in the divine nature, escaping the corruption that is in the world because of evil desires.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with godliness,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they will keep you from being useless or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


NOW I WILL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO MEDITATE ON, and to start working on:


Romans 14:23 (ASV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But he that doubteth is condemned if he eat,
because he eateth not of faith;
and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

You should be the one to meditate and work it out to know if you really have LOVE in your heart or just infatuated by a DEAD FAITH you defend to espouse a FALSE DOCTRINE.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

1 John 4:8,11-16 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.

New International Version 1984 James 2:22,24 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

New International Version 1984 1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, LET US NOT LOVE WITH WORDS AND TONGUES but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.

Romans 13:8-11 Love, for the Day Is Near Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED.

ALL GLORY AND PRAISE, HONOR, POWER AND WORSHIP BE TO GOD THE FATHER ANDHIS SON OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. AMEN!!!

 

[PeterJens]

Yep...you should learn to rightfully use context and divide the truth......and read the rest of the chapter....this does not say a believer can lose salvation....more cake taking and pitting scripture against scripture to spread you cracker jack false ideology.....!

dc - scripture is full of so much more that this hobby horse of yours.

What convinces me more than anything about you fascination with this ticket theology,
is you cannot progress to anything else, and it defines everything you share.

It is like being stuck on the first railway station you get to, never getting on the train,
telling everyone being at the station is what it is all about, how dare people believe where
the train takes you is the reason for being at the station, it is the station that is everything,
and it is heresy and evil to suggest the station was built so people could travel, because that
is worldly and of man, and staying where you are is our only hope, because one day a
heavenly train will come and change everything, not like these fallen failed trains that
only deluded people get on and go places.....