Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Originally Posted by PeterJens
I do find this line dc is taking is ironic.

He is the one who takes offence, like EG, and says how insulting etc. others are
and how this or that is saying Christ is lying.

I encountered from this group was this continual abuse, as if they could actually
describe the offence, but unfortunately not normally.

But lets break it down simply. Here we are believers, sinning everyday, which we
cannot stop doing, yet Christ loves and accepts us.

To me this is simply sinners rebelling and saying God does not care about purity,
holiness and walking in the Spirit. Just read the lists of those doomed to hell,
and you understand they are the sinners. and the repentant faithful, followers of
Christ going to heaven.

I simply cannot understand and comprehend how anyone can come to these conclusions,
because you have to ignore so much of who the Lord is.

But if making the Lord fit ones own failures, then it is easy to do.

He makes us fit his forgiveness. Not the other way around, upside down (the brood of vipers)

He is the Potter who forms Christ in the clay. Some for vessels of honor others back into the field of clay.


Christians are not given a license to sin but are given a way to be forgiveness or pardoned from an eternal debt.. We serve Him who is not served by human hands because with him there is forgiveness from all the sins a person will perform in their entire life time. Without him no sin will be forgiven .One sins brings eternal separation ...never to rid see to new spirit life.


You could say get out of the judgement due as that which he freely gives to us with no cost on our behalf. . Rather than judging the law of grace and getting under it authority to redeem, some use the letter of the law in respect to a law of the fathers by standing in judgement as if they could see into the heart of man . In the end of the matter the law of the father does despite to the Spirit of Grace making it without effect.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
Psalm 103

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"][h=1]Psalm 103King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]103 Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 The Lord executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Bless the Lord, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the Lord, O my soul.




My reason for sharing this Psalm is for us to read and enjoy such Truth and let our Spirit delight together.


[/FONT]




[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Psalm 111,

“1, Praise Yah! I thank
יהוה with all my heart, In the company of the straight, and of the congregation.

"2, Great are the works of
יהוה, Searched for by all who delight in them.

"3, Splendour and greatness are His work, And His righteousness stands forever.

"4, He has made His wonders to be remembered;
יהוה shows favor and is compassionate.

"5, He has given food to those who fear Him; He remembers His covenant forever.

"6, He has shown His people the power of His works, To give to them the inheritance of the nations.

"7, The works of His hands are truth and right-ruling, All His orders are trustworthy,

"8, They are upheld forever and ever, Performed in truth and straightness.

"9, He sent redemption to His people, He has commanded His covenant forever. Set-apart and awesome is His Name.

"10, The fear of
יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, All those doing them have a good understanding. His praise is standing forever."
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Not wishing to argue with you here.
Thats not my style.

But the truth is others can say the same about you

”Many come in his name to deceive”

To be honest I am in the catergory of the people you accuse of comeing to deceive.
I am not here to do that.
I don’t think you are either.

We all have a purpose and it’s not deceive.

Lets not go down that route.

Works will be judged and burned up If crap.

Faith will stand the test. Gold
This is not about you ,me, or anyone on this forum in my view. It's about knowing what the Bible's teaches. And to do that, we must use "Every Word of God", not just the few verses that can be used to further some church doctrine.

Matt. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

So BG, we are told to:

2 Tim. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So this means I, ME, I am supposed to study. It doesn't mean am to pick and choose someone else to study for me. Like the Pope, or Benny Hinn, or Oral Roberts. I am supposed to study, and I am supposed to use EVERY WORD of God in that study.

For instance, Paul said:

Rom. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

And He said.

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

And he said:

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

So these are seemingly directly opposite instructions. What "MANY" people do is just pick the one that more closely supports their current lifestyle, and ignore the other. To a Jewish believer, the Rom. 2, might fit the traditions and doctrines of his church than the Rom. 3 scripture. To the AOG or Baptist or "many" others, the Rom. 3 scripture is used, and the others ignored.

But this isn't the way we are told to study, and it is in direct contradiction to Jesus and His instruction to consider Every Word.

So this is what I did. I separated myself from ALL Mainstream teachings, at least as much as possible in America today. And for 20 years I studied. Of course this means nothing to you as you don't know me from Adam, and it really means nothing anyway, lots of people study. It is just a factual account of what I did, nothing more.

What I found out is that these scriptures do not contradict each other at all. In Rom. 3 and Gal. 3 Paul is speaking of the Levitical Priesthood, ceremonial, sacrificial "works or Deeds of the Law" for remission of sin, contained in the "Oracles" of God. Paul tells us this Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" because of transgression of the Laws Abraham was blessed for obeying. (Gen. 26:5) They were a "Shadow" of Christ's sacrifice and were to be in force "Until the Seed should come". (Gal. 3:19)

So it is wrong to build a doctrine around one scripture, while rejecting others. And this also makes it almost impossible to understand God's instruction if a person cherry picks scripture, or if a person CHOOSES to place more value on one scripture that others.

So instead of choosing scripture that supports some doctrine or tradition of men, and erasing from my mind any scripture that brings these doctrines and traditions into question, I simply let the Bible create my doctrine. This was easier for me because I had already separated myself from a Mainstream Church that EVERYBODY knows "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and Traditions".

And even though I know, from study, that "most" will choose church tradition over God's Word, I came on this forum anyway and am sharing what I have been shown with you.

We are told by "many" that Paul says we can do "NOTHING" in respect to our salvation. And they use a few scriptures including this one as support of that teaching.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

But the same people reject and ignore the same words of the same Paul when he said the following.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.
22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Which confirms my belief that the Gospel of Christ is the Old Testament as Paul said in Romans 1, which I was accused of lying about.

In closing, keep in mind that it was Jesus, not me, who said;

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, (Christians) saying, I am Christ;(Saying Jesus is truly the Son of God) and shall deceive many.

It is good that you are "Testing the Spirits". :)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Everything he said in that post was false and misleading and did not for one second address anything I said

You know....you sound a lot like Fran.....she used a little girl for an avatar and used PINK for her name......


You are free to explain with scripture how "Offering myself a living sacrifice to God" is somehow misleading and false. In fact, I encourage a healthy conversation and discussion of "EVERY" Word of God. But I don't think it is healthy to insult people just because they post a scripture, or agree with a posted scripture that you reject, ignore, or don't understand.

But you are free to behave in what ever manner suits you, the above is simply my opinion.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
You are free to explain with scripture how "Offering myself a living sacrifice to God" is somehow misleading and false. In fact, I encourage a healthy conversation and discussion of "EVERY" Word of God. But I don't think it is healthy to insult people just because they post a scripture, or agree with a posted scripture that you reject, ignore, or don't understand.

But you are free to behave in what ever manner suits you, the above is simply my opinion.
Welcome to cc studyman make sure you have your full armour of GOD firmly on.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Thanks for the comment although I'm on your ignore long list. So can you answer with a YES or NO what dcon couldn't honestly answer?
This is another lie...I did answer three times....keep lying your way to the pit!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
It's just YES or NO please!!!

Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
My position is clear and I did answer.....lose the blinders and accusatory rose colored glasses and pay attention to the worda written...and quit lying through your teeth...how does that help your works flavored cracker jack dogma?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Welcome to cc studyman make sure you have your full armour of GOD firmly on.
It surely does bring to life the scripture, "there is no new thing under the sun".

Can you imagine how the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching "congregation" of Christ's must have felt when John the Baptist came to them telling "THEM" to repent?

Here they had been worshipping a certain way for centuries, they had their doctrines and traditions all sowed up in one great religion. Then here came some wild man telling them they were preaching a false doctrine. So he was killed, then right behind him came a common carpenter teaching them the same thing. Exposing their man made doctrines and traditions from the same Bible they claimed to follow.


Man is truly the same today as it was then, and as it was in Cain and Abel's time. "Nothing new under the sun".

Thank you for your encouraging words :)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
What of those who need no chastening?
Don't you think anyone loves God above all else?


If they sin, I agree with VCO that they were never reborn.
After sinners "turn from sin" they can start counting their days in Christ.
They lost everything before their real "repentance from sin".


Was he also clear in 1 John 1:5?..."[FONT=&quot]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"[/FONT]Was he clear in 1 John 2:4?...[FONT=&quot]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
How about 1 John 3:9?..."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"
Was he clear in 1 John 2:2-3?..."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."
And..."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."
How much clearer could John be that there are people who love God above all else?
People who don't commit sin.[/FONT]
apparently you cannot read.....GOD CHASTENS EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES....

What one word in that line refutes your stance?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
The Pharisees kept people out of heaven.
The money changers were on the temple grounds.
Jesus was right to be mad.

But, how many really payed attetion to what he said to those money changers? How many?

What he said was far more important than his taking up a whip.


Mark 11:17 (ESV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And he was teaching them and saying to them, “Is it not written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations’? But you have made it a den of robbers.”


If we do not pray a LOT while we are in Church, are we not being disobedient, and sinning?

At one point in my life, I was going to a Church where everyone entered the Sanctuary quietly and sat down and prayed until the Service Started. NOW it sounds like a Social EVENT. I still pray when I first sit down in the pew, but it is much harder with all the noise around me. I miss the old ways.

How many Pray when you first sit down in the pew, praying for God to prepare your heart to worship in spirit and and in truth, AND then PRAY for the rest of the Congregation to have their hearts prepared by the Holy Spirit to worship in spirit and in truth.

How many seriously pray for the sick, the people the congregation has been witnessing to, and for our friends, neighbors, and relatives who are not in church? How many? You have not, because you ask not.

How many pray a prayer of thanksgiving when a particular song deeply touches your heart and brings tears to your eyes? How many?

How many pray for the Collection, that it will be enough to meet the needs of the Church, all the various ministries, and the missions for the advancement of the KINGDOM? How many?

How many pray for the Pastor to be filled with the Spirit, as he gets up to Teach, so that HE will say every word that GOD wants us to hear? How many?

How many pray as the Sermon begins, that WE will ALL HEAR the message with Spiritual Understanding? How many?

How many pray to GOD thanking HIM for the opportunity to Worship, when the Service is over? How many?

How many pray a prayer for forgiveness for ROBBING GOD OF THE PRAYERS HE WANTS, just like the Money Changers did? HOW MANY?


That is the lesson of Jesus taking up the whip, and most of us have totally missed it. We deserve the whip too, for allowing the Church to become a Social Club, where the attitude of most seems to be: "Here I am, now enterain me.", INSTEAD OF I WILL PRAY AS I WORSHIP MY LORD.

ONE LAST HOW MANY QUESTION?

HOW MANY UNDERSTAND THAT OMMISION OF PRAYERS IS SIN IN THE BELIEVER THAT OMITS THOSE PRAYERS? HOW MANY?
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
That "we" is the men who walk in darkness, as verses 7 and 9 both say that all our sins-unrighteousness CAN be cleansed.
Those who walk in the light can say they have no sin.
I invite you into the light, which is God.
BTW...there is no sin in God.
This is one of the most ignorant things you have said so far and to say WE and US does not include John takes the cake for ignorance and a few other words I will not mention!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Let's see a name from the time after we could be reborn. (And that of Godly seed that cannot bring forth evil fruit.)
The last three posts of yours have proven you have no understanding and no need to even address a man who rejects the truth in favor of some sinless perfectionist ignorance!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Me too, but what I see in the present tense, is that Paul considers himself the worst of those saved...from sin.
If you still commit sin, you won't be saved in the end.
Another fallacy here.....Where sin abounds, grace did much more abound.....and you just declared yourself lost.....NO MAN is sinless until the body is changed or resurrected....
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
So to cut a long story short are you saying?

God will not listen to me or hear me until I am sinless?
Prov. 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Prov. 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

Prov. 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.


You should study these scriptures and determine what they mean. Then decide if you should include them in your understanding, or reject them.

In this way you are beholden to God and not the words of some man.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Go peddle your counterfeit gospel elsewhere, I'm done with your sinless perfectionism. I am asking you politely to stop responding to my posts. If you continue with your demeaning and rude comments I will report you to the Moderator's.
Amen you got that right.......a vanilla twist, cafe blend cracker jack box dogma.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
You are free to explain with scripture how "Offering myself a living sacrifice to God" is somehow misleading and false. In fact, I encourage a healthy conversation and discussion of "EVERY" Word of God. But I don't think it is healthy to insult people just because they post a scripture, or agree with a posted scripture that you reject, ignore, or don't understand.

But you are free to behave in what ever manner suits you, the above is simply my opinion.
You explained nothing....used scripture that had zero to do with my post and contradicted yourself completely in the process....such is the way and modus operandi of all workers for, sinless perfectionists and all who sell Jesus out in favor of a cafe blend false dogma.....just like politicians shift the focus because they are full of deceit and self serving ideology
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,324
6,692
113
Prov. 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Prov. 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

Prov. 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.


You should study these scriptures and determine what they mean. Then decide if you should include them in your understanding, or reject them.

In this way you are beholden to God and not the words of some man.
it is not a matter of accepting verses or rejecting them. it is a matter of balancing Scripture. you and some others play games with Scripture, trying to pit the Bible against it's self.

you do know that chapters and verses were not added until the 1300's or so right? you know that men divided God's Word up into these right? you know that they were meant as reference points, not to individualize verses and build theology around them.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
We can't change our flesh. We can only be spiritual Sons by death to the old, and life in the new. This is a new age called grace. Grace abounds and is greater than sin. Greater than the prince of the power of the air in this world. Andbis the ruling power of the believer. It frees us to be who God has already made us within.

I hope your eyes open Peter for you are loved.
Here is your belief in defeat. You are declaring the flesh is doomed.
Jesus was flesh just like us yet was eternal and lived a righteous life.

This is your point of unbelief and your connection to the gnostic way of thinking.

Now if I believed like you do, I would have to deny the victory Paul, Peter declares.
For me that would be sin.

I have no problems with you believing what you desire, I just declare the victory
the cross means, and the limits you are putting of the Holy Spirit are not the ones
the disciples experienced. If you met Christ face to face you would understand.

Jesus did not rebuke anyone, but those who had their sins forgiven were forgiven.
But you clearly do not believe this.

You add to Jesus's words by saying not sinning was actually about intended to sin,
not actually stopping from sinning because that is impossible. Only be revelation will
you be free from whatever belief you are limiting the Spirit of God by.