Not By Works

[PeterJens]

Ohh I get it, there was no way to honestly disprove what that post said so you aimed at me...

I wonder. If ones opinion of the Lord is based on ones relationship with Him and His word,
obviously one word or phrase will upset the believer.

If on the other hand ones opinion is based on ideas preached by men, lenses of interpretation
and the accepting we can do nothing about ourselves, then verses, or theology will bounce off
like water off a ducks back.

So all that is left is to attack individuals, try and discredit them, because there is nothing else
than personal standing.

It is why when believers come here and bring Gods word, His eternal truths, the Word that brings
us life, and shows obvious realities, we stand amazed that people claiming to listen to our King act
like the ideas and words are not His but some heresy or an alien deluded gospel not of God.

This should seriously worry those who say they are listening to the King.
It is obvious to me, a lot do not care at all, and are deaf, blind and dumb.

I was told by one contributor that the big sins were easy to not do, it was the little things, that
showed the hypocracy. We then got talking about what these sins were and they were all big,
and the hypocracy was daily not dealing with them in repentance and faith.

I heard on a video a believer praying, "We do not want to fill our speech with just words, because
our culture is so full of words."

Translation, he wanted words with reality, but his words did not reflect what was really going on
and he knew this. The failure was in not then repenting and making his words mean what they
were meant to mean, but rather he continued on the idea words are not meaningful, but God
created all we are through words, and He is the word of Life to us, so words are foundational.

But listening to these believers, belief or faith is the cornerstone, and everything else is wishy
washy, you just need to belong and you are fine. Question the belonging, and you are instantly
the enemy condemning and bringing splits in the fellowship.

So I cannot take one of them seriously, in any regard. Their goal is to just make more passive
discouraged people who are rejoicing in sinning and doing nothing.

 

[Hizikyah]

I think of this when I read that;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:24-29, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.” And it came to be, when [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]had ended these words, that the people were astonished at His teaching, for He was teaching them as one possessing authority, and not as the scribes.”[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

Glad to see the workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists are keeping all applicable laws 24/7/365 to remain sinless.....if not your condemned and of the "debil Bobby Bouche"..............

Oh wait.....NO ONE keeps the law 24/7/365......exactly why we need the grace and mercy of God found in Christ.....

 

[Hizikyah]

Glad to see the workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists are keeping all applicable laws 24/7/365 to remain sinless.....if not your condemned and of the "debil Bobby Bouche"..............

Oh wait.....NO ONE keeps the law 24/7/365......exactly why we need the grace and mercy of God found in Christ.....

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:16 , “You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people.”[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:16 , “You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people.”[/FONT]

Nice misapplication of scripture.....and who slandered.....what I said was true.....

 

[loveme1]

Glad to see the workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists are keeping all applicable laws 24/7/365 to remain sinless.....if not your condemned and of the "debil Bobby Bouche"..............

Oh wait.....NO ONE keeps the law 24/7/365......exactly when we need the grace and mercy of God found in Christ.....

You don’t scare us.. for we know the Truth because of the Grace and Mercy of GOD through Faith in Christ.. we live by Faith in Christ and the Spiritualy blind would say such things as you... to Love GOD is to obey Him.. Faith that worketh by love.. GOD is Gracious and GOD has heard.. such Truth that my name declares it ... oh how my Spirit delights in His Law and how blessed am I to of been saved to worship GOD in Spirit and Truth.. vanilla twist.. cake taker.. whatever you have stored up.. I’m gonna Love my GOD forever as I will love even my enemies because His Love is shed abroad and I’m free to walk in the Spirit.. my Lord is my life..

 

[Hizikyah]

Glad to see the workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists are keeping all applicable laws 24/7/365 to remain sinless.....if not your condemned and of the "debil Bobby Bouche"..............

Oh wait.....NO ONE keeps the law 24/7/365......exactly why we need the grace and mercy of God found in Christ.....

Leviticus 19:16 , “You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people.”

Nice misapplication of scripture.....and who slandered.....what I said was true.....

You are tale bearing and slandering.

I have never claimed to be sinless or that any one keeps the Law 100% all the time, which is one in the same sin is transgression of the Law.

 

[Studyman]

I wonder. If ones opinion of the Lord is based on ones relationship with Him and His word,
obviously one word or phrase will upset the believer.

If on the other hand ones opinion is based on ideas preached by men, lenses of interpretation
and the accepting we can do nothing about ourselves, then verses, or theology will bounce off
like water off a ducks back.

So all that is left is to attack individuals, try and discredit them, because there is nothing else
than personal standing.

It is why when believers come here and bring Gods word, His eternal truths, the Word that brings
us life, and shows obvious realities, we stand amazed that people claiming to listen to our King act
like the ideas and words are not His but some heresy or an alien deluded gospel not of God.

This should seriously worry those who say they are listening to the King.
It is obvious to me, a lot do not care at all, and are deaf, blind and dumb.

I was told by one contributor that the big sins were easy to not do, it was the little things, that
showed the hypocracy. We then got talking about what these sins were and they were all big,
and the hypocracy was daily not dealing with them in repentance and faith.

I heard on a video a believer praying, "We do not want to fill our speech with just words, because
our culture is so full of words."

Translation, he wanted words with reality, but his words did not reflect what was really going on
and he knew this. The failure was in not then repenting and making his words mean what they
were meant to mean, but rather he continued on the idea words are not meaningful, but God
created all we are through words, and He is the word of Life to us, so words are foundational.

But listening to these believers, belief or faith is the cornerstone, and everything else is wishy
washy, you just need to belong and you are fine. Question the belonging, and you are instantly
the enemy condemning and bringing splits in the fellowship.

So I cannot take one of them seriously, in any regard. Their goal is to just make more passive
discouraged people who are rejoicing in sinning and doing nothing.

Rev. 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Jer. 13:13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.


14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace(You are saved); when there is no peace.


15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?( Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men) nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.


17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

This stuff has been going on for a long time PJ.

Good post

 

[VCO]

Do you know what it is I wait for, what my hope of righteousness is?
It is the return of Christ.


Thanks.
Do you know whose children bring forth evil fruit?


Fig trees cannot bear grapes.
That which is born of God will nit bring forth the works of the devil.


It is part of the reason you will never be sanctified.
Your version of the bile is leading you down the path to hell.
We are reborn holy, consecrated, set apart, and atoned for.
That is the definition of sanctified.
I can grow in grace and knowledge, but I will never be MORE holy.
Your version of the bible has instituted never being sanctified.
It is always something in the future.
If I am wrong, you must know five or six people in your "church" who have "become" sanctifiedalready, right?
That sounds a lot like you are earning it by your works!

☝t<><

You still do not understand what BAD FRUIT is. It is those things that I had in RED LETTERS on that previous post about the fruit listed Galations Chapter 5; and THOSE BAD FRUITS REPRESENT A LIFESTYLE OF DOING THOSE KIND OF THINGS.


Gal. 5:
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry {which is greed}, sorcery {can be abuse of DRUGS, the word is "pharmakeia", guess what .the sorcerer's magic potions were} , hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


The key word that tells us that HE is talking about lifestyle characteristics, and not one time sins, is the word practice in verse 21. Ever since you showed up here, you have been producing: strife, dissensions, and factions. You certainly are of a FACTION, THAT WANTS TO ADD HUMAN WORKS to the GOSPEL OF SALVATION, instead of accepting the COMPLETED, PERFECT work of JESUS CHRIST. That makes the GOSPEL you preach a False Gospel.

If we can find ONE example of how the Lord GOD saves people in the Bible, then we will know how he saves all who are to be SAVED, because HE SAID THIS:


Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.


Romans 4:1-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] What then can we say that Abraham, our physical ancestor, has found?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to brag about—but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

READ IT AGAIN, THE LORD GOD DECLARED ABRAHAM TO BE RIGHTEOUS TOTALLY APART FROM WORKS. You are preaching a FALSE GOSPEL. Works are not a means to SALVATION, only BELIEVING GOD has a part in SALVATION. Works are just a way to show our LOVE for GOD, they are not part of getting us SAVED, nor part of keeping us saved. THAT WAS A DONE DEAL, THE MOMENT WE CHOSE TO BELIEVE IN HIM.




Then you go on, apparently implying that you are of the only TRUE CHURCH. Is that an example of selfish ambitions or what? Yes our human spirits were sanctified the moment of SALVATION when the Holy Spirit first entered our hearts birthing our human spirits into eternal life, HOWEVER, YOU INGNORE that we have told you several times that our biblical beliefs are that NOBODY will be rid of that Sin Nature in our bodies, until THE LORD JESUS changes it to a Glorified Body like HIS, at the Rapture. That is because the Sanctification process of the body is an ongoing lifestyle of becoming more and more like Christ, that will not be completed perfect until were have that Glorified body when HE stops mid-air, sending the Archangel on ahead to SHOUT, and calling us OUT to go to the Wedding of the Lamb, in Heaven.

Now since you seem to only be producing strife, dissensions, and factions, which are grievous sins, I will make a prediction.

By this time next week, most of us here will have added you to our IGNORE LIST.

 

[NayborBear]

Glad to see the workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists are keeping all applicable laws 24/7/365 to remain sinless.....if not your condemned and of the "debil Bobby Bouche"..............

Oh wait.....NO ONE keeps the law 24/7/365......exactly why we need the grace and mercy of God found in Christ.....

What I'm seeing, is nothing more then some "fire n brimstone" preacher!
You are preaching faith? Comes from hearing! Hearing by the Word OF God!

I can't argue with you about this, for it is true!

What is being argued, and what it is you are refusing to do? Is GROW spiritually!



You are "Preaching" "COME to the Cross of Christ!" "But don't you dare proceed onwards to the Father!" I don't know (but you probably do) why, you, and ones like you, are so afraid of being confessed before the Father, by the Son, as You have confessed the Son, before man. It boggles my mind!

It reminds me of the parable of the talents, where the guy who had only 1 talent, went and hid it away! And when the master comes for an accounting? The guy tells the master: "I knew you were an harsh master, and didn't wanna lose what little you gave me, so I hid it away." (STAYING at the Cross of Christ)

So, the master tells him "You foolish servant!" "You could have at least put it in the bank, and drawn some interest (benefit) for me!" "But, instead?" "I get nothing, for my investing in you!" "Get outta my face!" "And I'll take that which I gave to you back!" "And give it to those other guys, who gave me an increase in my investment!"

This is what Paul was saying when he said, "So, does this mean we should remain in sin, so grace may abound?"

I paraphrased his retort: "Are y'all friggin' GOOFY?!??"


In conclusion? You, are way outta your league, if you think, I, as well as several other posters I've read, are going to continue buying this crap!

Circumcision of the heart? It HURTS! BIG TIME! And, NOT to be confused with being Convicted! Conviction, is one's acknowledgement, and ADMISSION, To Him, of ones' shortcomings! Is like God saying through the Holy Spirit: "I KNOW! I just wanted to hear YOU say it!"

 

[stonesoffire]

Oh, oh..."positional" is a code word the unbelievers use to legitimize their ongoing sin.

Our rebirth produces the perfect man, a man born of Godly seed that cannot bring forth evil fruit.
A real "turn from sin" is first, however, as God doesn't give gifts to the unsanctified.

Do you actually walk by these words? Never have had an unrighteous thought? Never had a burst of uncontrolled anger? Never said a word to anyone that offended? Told a lie?

It is the work of Holy Spirit to sanctify.

 

[VCO]

We aren't sinners. Our sin nature has been put to death, and we have a new heart, new nature. Now we are the Sons of God.

A new creation man/woman. The righteousness of God in Christ Jesus is ours so we are the righteous Ones! Being formed as we hear and see Him.

At least Paul did not have that False Understanding and admitted the TRUTH:

Romans 7:15-25 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

YES, the born again human spirit has no sin in it, but the human body will go to the grave with a sin nature in it.

1 Timothy 1:15-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I received mercy for this reason, so that in me, the worst ⌊of them⌋, Christ Jesus might demonstrate His extraordinary patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

 

[BillG]

This is impossible unless Yah puts His Spirit on you;



Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."




Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”


Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."


Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Great verses H.

When it’s in our hearts and his spirit in us how could we not respond?


Purify my heart
Let me be as gold
And precious silver
Purify my heart
Let me be as gold
Pure gold

Refiner's fire
My heart's one desire
Is to be holy
Set apart for You, Lord
I choose to be holy
Set apart for You, my Master
Ready to do Your will
Purify my heart
Cleanse me from within
And make me holy
Purify my heart
Cleanse me from my sin
Deep within

 

[BillG]

Hi BillG, the person you are referring to in this post is a "sinless perfectionist",
"a false teacher.", Walk away.

Have done.
Just makes me sad and have hearted when people heap burdens and guilt and condemnation on genuinely believing Christians who seek God everyday to grow in him and become like him.

I just don’t get why.

If Jesus said we could be sinless then he would not have to have died.
He could have just come down for 3 years taught as he did then said “Going back to the Father now the Holy Spirit will come and when you accept him you WILL BE SINLESS”

No need to hang on the cross. Afterall those before the cross would have their sins covered by various sacrifices.

https://www.gotquestions.org/sinless-perfection.html

No doubt the above link will be rejected by the I don’t sin brigade.

God bless you TT

 

[PJW]

Im saying physically, inside a human flesh body. I have never met anyone that believed and instantly got a spirit body. That is why I said people will alywas be subject to sin until this;

1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

Just because we are "subject" to sin, (the sins committed around us), doesn't mean we must still commit sin too.

 

[BillG]

You never answered my question

This is not about you ,me, or anyone on this forum in my view. It's about knowing what the Bible's teaches. And to do that, we must use "Every Word of God", not just the few verses that can be used to further some church doctrine.

If my opinion or anyone else’s opinions matter why do you say “You didn’t answer my question?
I have an inkling as to why you said what you did in the first quote.

However I alway seek the best in people.

I always endeavour to answer questions and I probably miss a few.

So if I have missed yours please accept my apologies and can you please ask the question that I missed again.

Thanks

Bill

 

[PJW]

Breaking His Law;
1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
to not live in sinful life any longer;
Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"
Sin is breaking the Law of YHWH, if there is no Law there is no sin;
Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."

Why did you post some verses saying we don't have to "live in" sin, or, have "sin imputed to us", then post a verse saying we cannot say we have no sin?
Kind of a mixed message there.

 

[PJW]

Galatians 5
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Our inward is changed when we believe.. when we are born again of the Holy Spirit through Faith in Christ.. yet we are still here on earth abiding in the mortal vessel.. and we know the before and after of our inwards.. before how quick would the lie leave the mouth.. justifying ourselves that it won’t hurt.. we in the flesh not born of the spirit become a god to ourselves.. judging ourselves good.. yet we were filthy dead in our trespasses... until that knowledge of condemnation was revealed.. until the Light proved us evil and dark inwardly.. but GOD be thanked that He made a way for us to be redeemed and made New if we Believe His Son’s Testimony.. If we Repent and Believe.. yes.. we abide but GOD’s Grace through Faith in Christ keeps us.. leads us to the narrow gate.. labouring in Love against such there is no law for Love fulfills the Royal Law..

May the Lord continue to guide you into all truth.

 

[PJW]

I don't go by "hypotheses" as you do to in order to develop an ideology not based upon Scripture.
His sheep obey his voice and follow him; John 10:27; Deuteronomy 27:10, thus your hypothesis is moot and designed to maintain and implement your false doctrine of being sinless. The facts remain; you are deceived, the truth is not in you; 1 John 1:8.
Again: God doesn't chasten bastards, he only chastens his children.
I pray that you will have a genuine encounter with God which will reveal your vile inner nature and dire need of God. I mean this sincerely and in concern.

How strange that you would write..."His sheep obey His voice", then write..."your false doctrine of sinlessness".
Aren't the "hearing sheep" obedient to their Shepherd?
Please reexamine your POV.

 

[Hizikyah]

Great verses H.

When it’s in our hearts and his spirit in us how could we not respond?


Purify my heart
Let me be as gold
And precious silver
Purify my heart
Let me be as gold
Pure gold

Refiner's fire
My heart's one desire
Is to be holy
Set apart for You, Lord
I choose to be holy
Set apart for You, my Master
Ready to do Your will
Purify my heart
Cleanse me from within
And make me holy
Purify my heart
Cleanse me from my sin
Deep within

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 51:10, “Create in me a clean heart, O Yah, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 1:6-7, “(Salvation) in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah.”[/FONT]