Not By Works

[PJW]

Can a Christian achieve sinless perfection?
There has been a lot of talk about this subject going on for weeks now. Many here already know the answer to this question but there are still a few people who are undecided. This article is from a well known apologetics website called CARM, 'Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. I think the 2 or 3 minutes to read this article will be of benefit for everyone, well maybe not all.
God bless
by Matt Slick
5/10/16
No, a Christian cannot achieve sinless perfection; that is, on this side of heaven. Though there are Christians who say they do not sin anymore, they are in error. In order to achieve a sinless state of perfection, the Christian's motivations would have to be pure and perfect at all times because God looks at the condition of the heart as well as our actions. Consider the following verses.

• Matthew 5:28, "but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
• Matthew 22:37, "And He said to him, “‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’"
• Matthew 22:39, "'The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’"

We see that Jesus taught that the intention of the heart is important to God. This is because God's heart is perfect. He is holy which is why He says in 1 Peter 1:16, "Be holy, for I am holy." God is the standard of holiness, and Jesus reveals the necessity of the perfect standard.
Can any Christian say that his heart is perfect and that he never falters? That he never looks upon a woman with impure thoughts? That he loves the Lord God with all of his heart, and that he loves his neighbor as himself, all with a perfect state of mind? The standard is absolute purity. None of us can claim that.
But there are those who say the Bible says we do not sin.

• 1 John 3:6, "No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him."
• 1 John 3:9, "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
• 1 John 5:18, "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him."

The Bible is not saying that we don't sin. Those verses in 1 John are talking about abiding in sin. That is not what Christians do. In fact, 1 John earlier in the same epistle states the following.

• 1 John 1:8, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
• 1 John 2:1, "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

Notice that John the apostle includes himself in the issue of sinning. Are the sinless perfectionist people more holy than John the apostle? I think not.
So, a Christian is to struggle against his sin and to see this before God. But we cannot say that every intention of our hearts is always perfect and pure. If it were, we would not need an intercessor before God once we are saved. The idea of sinless perfectionism is an error that is refuted by Scripture.

Attribute: https://carm.org/can-a-christian-achieve-sinless-perfection

You've hitched your wagon to a man who says "nobody loves God with their whole heart".
What a mistake.
I wonder why he didn't try to refute..."[FONT=&quot]Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Or..."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Or..."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ [/FONT]depart[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]from[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]iniquity[FONT=&quot]." (2 Tim 2:19)
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Or..."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall [/FONT]never[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]fall[FONT=&quot]:" (2 Peter 1:10)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Or, for that matter..."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)[/FONT]

 

[PeterJens]

Nay peter you see it as being condemned I have spoken much truth in the spirit today not only to you but some others,but if you can't accept truth there is no hope for you,it's sad that people still choose vanity over God by declaring perfection when they are seeking hurt on others which is wicked,I could lie to myself too but I am saved through Jesus and God's humble servant and I will speak when he leads me to I wish many would stop delighting in pride and blindness,and tearing apart the bible with bits and pieces to make a new word of God for one self,I cannot do that,nor do I seek it,but I praise God to be able to speak truth today for without him I am nothing.

Unfortunately, I lose you when you accuse me of claiming perfection.
God bless you, may the Lords love and grace shine upon you and forgive
the sins you commit without knowing what you are doing, Amen.

 

[loveme1]

My God, The dude attacked me, it was not even provoked.

please stop loveme, Your bias is getting out of hand.

I have said much and will stop.. I have learnt much this evening.

 

[BillG]

I have said much and will stop.. I have learnt much this evening.

Come back tomorrow.

Hopefully we can all reason

 

[stonesoffire]

Firstly my friend, I love dc, that he might know Christ love and victory in His life, and
walk in purity and holiness.

Secondly, dc is quite happy like a lot of you, to condemn me to hell, say I am satanic,
and basically evil.

And the point about dc is almost innocent. He is guilt of swearing and getting worked up.
You have missed the whole point. His answer was he was hacked.

So immediately he recognises as sense of shame about this behaviour here on cc, but not
on twitter amongst his right wing friends. You are like lambs to the slaughter, not seeing
the games people are playing.

And the point is truth and reality not why people use it.

It is no wonder you have no sense of truth and objectivity, just being nice to people who
you call friends. Righteousness is not about being nice, it is about what is evil and what is
good. Very nice people sent the Jews to the gas chambers, because they were so evil.

It is how this propoganda works. The enemy are labelled evil worthy of death, and the good
people ok, worthy of respect and being left alone. This is how the enemy works, not the Kingdom
of God.

Imagine also what great sin have I commited? Showing what someone wrote. Wait a minute that
is not a sin, that is walking in the light, speaking the truth.

But you are accusing me of sin, hatred, bitterness and evil. There has to be something wrong here.
The righteous are evil, and the evil are good. Sounds like what the people of Israel did before they
were judged. So there is a warning here, beware which side you end up on, because in your blindness
you can get very lost.

And you just judged me. I said you use psychology rather than the scriptures and you just proved it. I said none of those things to you.

 

[PJW]

Abiding means, "to continue or to remain in sin" (Transliteration: menó), it does not mean,
a Christian will not sin.

So you CAN sometimes say "I have no sin"?

 

[loveme1]

Come back tomorrow.

Hopefully we can all reason

GOD bless you Bill. .. but the stop was with the matter.. I don’t want to fight.. time to speak up and a time to shut up.. but I will be online until bed..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have said much and will stop.. I have learnt much this evening.

I will have to stop responding to you. It is better that way.

 

[stonesoffire]

I have said much and will stop.. I have learnt much this evening.

Me too and now will have to check my blood pressure. drat!

 

[loveme1]

Me too and now will have to check my blood pressure. drat!

May it be ideal.. Bless you.

 

[stonesoffire]

EG

I've missed you.

Taking Bills advice.

 

[Seohce]

Amen if he would take into account even one sin as to its one wage (eternal damnation) who could stand in His Holy presence and receive mercy and therefore grace to do good through Faith? We fear Him because he pardons us freely with a get out of jail free card. Its his monopoly he sets the standards..Some judge the law and demand others follow them. Others get out of jail.

Why stand in judgment of the law of grace.We know the outcome?

Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.Mat 18:27-30

David knew where to get out of jail, stay out of jail card .according to the proper kind of fear. We fear him because with Him there is go forgiveness without him (and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.)

Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD.Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is "mercy", and with him is plenteous redemption.
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.Psa 130:1-8

New International Version 1984 Matthew 18:31-35 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened. “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

GOD IS MERCIFUL AND HIS JUDGMENT IS FAIR AND UNSEARCHABLE.

We were once pardoned and shown mercy by God. How could we still go back to what we already turned our backs from?

2 Peter 2:21-22 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

Hebrews 6:4-8 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned

Galatians 2:17-18 “If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.

GOD GIVES AND GOD TAKES AWAY BECAUSE HE IS GOD, HE IS THE SUPREME AUTHORITY.


Romans 11:32-36 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. Doxology Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” “Who has ever given to God, that God should repay him?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.

 

[stonesoffire]

May it be ideal.. Bless you.

Thank you.. blessings to you too.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG

I've missed you.

Taking Bills advice.

Missed you too sis. I am trying to. Sometimes better just not saying anything

 

[loveme1]

I will have to stop responding to you. It is better that way.

If that is how you feel then so be it, all is well.

We have said much and if the end is here.

I will not converse as to encourage you.. after this post.... farewell Mr EG. Peace and Blessings.

 

[PJW]

He reposted it by going to the site it's on, and copying it's link on here..

I'm glad I don't open unsolicited links.

 

[PeterJens]

And you just judged me. I said you use psychology rather than the scriptures and you just proved it. I said none of those things to you.

stones - Did I speak the truth or am I wrong?

And I speak as things come to me. I can do nothing else.
The funny thing is you appear only to be saying my method is not scriptural, not that
I have said anything wrong. There is a big difference in that.

And I respect the fact you are not lying, or slandering, or being insulted or calling me
of satan, or evil etc. It makes a change.

How do you train someone for combat? You beat them up, so thankyou for the training
session, I appreciate it, I owe you a lot, for you are Gods gift to me, Praise the Lord.

 

[BillG]

GOD bless you Bill. .. but the stop was with the matter.. I don’t want to fight.. time to speak up and a time to shut up.. but I will be online until bed..

Same here.
I have no wish to fight either. But your better than me because I don’t know when to shut up

I myself am retiring and taking myself offline.
Although my mind won’t.

Sleep well sister and may it be a refreshing sleep.

God bless you too.

 

[PJW]

Led by Holy Spirit is more accurate now since we are part of the Body of Christ. Not a religious institution, but a living entity. I hope that word fits. Just came to me. Anyhow, by a new and living way.

Perfect fit.

 

[PJW]

Isn't the word overcome? Not quit?

We overcome by what?

No, the word I intended was "quit"... committing sin.

We "quit" by what?
By a true total repentance from sin.