Does Mosaic Law Still Apply Today?

newton3003 · Oct 28, 2017

Does the Law that God gave to Moses still apply? Was it meant as a curse?

Jesus says in MATTHEW 5: 17-19, ““Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore WHOEVER relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” What Law is he referring to, other than the Mosaic Law? He was regarded as a rabbi, and an extraordinary one at that since he knew all the 400 some-odd Laws that are mentioned in the Pentateuch. It would seem clear at first glance that even though Jesus fulfills the Law, the rest of us who strive for righteousness are expected to abide by it to get called into the Kingdom of Heaven.

God had determined that the rest of us cannot abide continually by all of the Law, to the extent that evil is defined as the opposite of good. God said in Genesis 8:21, after the Flood, “…the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth…” At least at some point in our lives we will give in to evil temptations in varying degrees, as God has determined that that is our nature. But God has provided a way we may redeem ourselves, by asking for forgiveness so He may wipe the slate clean, at least until the nest time. In Psalm 51:2 we ask God to wash us thoroughly from our iniquity, and cleanse us from our sins.

Did Jesus say that the Mosaic Law is a curse upon men? Those who came after Jesus have said that it is. Yet we can see above that Jesus has embraced the Mosaic Law as much as anyone can. Jesus fulfilled that Law, but I tell you that it is still up to the rest of us to STRIVE to fulfill it, and to ask for forgiveness if we have gone astray, in order that God’s Grace be upon us. Deuteronomy 28:1-6 says, “And if you faithfully obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God. Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.” As an aside I ask you, is Deuteronomy 28:1-6 a matter of faith, or a matter of works, that we may receive God’s Grace?

Who is God addressing in that passage? Is He addressing only the elders, or a prince that is referred to in Ezekiel 45:17? Do you see any mention of a prince in the above passage? It has been understood among generations prior to Jesus that God was addressing everyone. Furthermore, Deuteronomy 32: 7 says to “Remember the days of old; consider the years of many generations; ask your father, and he will show you, your elders, and they will tell you.” Is there mention of a prince in this passage? Ezekiel 45:17 merely states that a person of stature such as a prince is obligated to abide by Mosaic Law, but it doesn’t say that the rest of us are not so obligated. And to be sure, is Jesus in Matthew 5: 17-19 only addressing a prince?

Jesus has said that all of the Mosaic Law can be summed up in two commandments: That we love God with all our heart, soul and mind, and we love eachother as we love ourselves. That is Jesus telling us what the Law entails. God expects us to strive to abide by His Law, as none of us can totally abide by it. But to the extent that we can’t, we ask Him to forgive us of the sin of breaking any of those Laws, including those we are not aware of. Many who have come after Jesus have asserted that we are free from Mosaic Law. If that is truly the case, then let me ask you an obvious question…Why is it that in the Christian Bible there is the entire Old Testament, if it is to be ignored?

Marcelo · Oct 28, 2017

Love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Locutus · Oct 28, 2017

Read Romans 7:1-4

Snoozy · Oct 28, 2017

u gotta rightly divide the word of truth.
the law of moses was for israel.

the church is under the ministry of the new covenant. where there is a change in priesthood there is also by necessity change in the law as hebrews says.

we dont need to keep the law of moses as the body of Christ. most of the laws cant even be done in today's society!

Hizikyah · Oct 28, 2017

The Laws remain the same, the is no human Levitical priesthood but Yahshua is the High Priest that has once for all made Sacrifice...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 4:1-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of YHWH, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."[/FONT]

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) all, whole, completely

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and (#G5100 & #G2087) any othercommandments are summed up (#G346) in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

“any”is word #G5100 - tis: a certain one, someone, anyone, Original Word: τις, τι, Part of Speech: Indefinite Pronoun, Transliteration: tis, Phonetic Spelling: (tis), Short Definition: any one, some one, Definition: any one, some one, a certain one or thing.

“other”is word #G2087 - heteros
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the other, another, other, 1 to number,1a1) to number as opposed to some former person or thing,1a2) the other of two,1b) to quality,1b1) another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different

“summed up” is word #G346 – anakephalaioó: to sum up, gather up, Original Word: ἀνακεφαλαιόω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: anakephalaioó, Phonetic Spelling: (an-ak-ef-al-ah'-ee-om-ahee), Short Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one, Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

People read this and think the Laws do not steal, Sabbath, honor your father and mother, etc. are changed, but in context this is about the priesthood, there is no loger a human Levitical priesthood, for Yahshua/Jesus sits as High Priest forever;

Hebrews 7:13, “For He of whom this is said belongs to another tribe, from which no one had attended at the Altar. For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood.”

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”

1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Hizikyah · Oct 28, 2017

Snoozy said:

Today's society has no bearing on the eternal Creator.

Do you think the Sabbath is only for Jews or is it also for Gentiles?

Snoozy · Oct 28, 2017

Hizikyah said:

im so tired of sabbath sabbath sabbath. seems like every thread here is the sabbath. i went to the gym this morning already, did i break the sabbath? i showered, did i break the sabbath? lucky for me i dont gotta cook so i didnt do that.

but i did eat a nice breakfast. potatoes beef and sallad with good gravy.

so did i break the sabbath?

u know there are other commandments in the law of moses than sabbath. circumcsion, wearing tassels, not shaving the corners of ur head, animal sacrifices, big penalty for not obeying the sabbath which u dont actually do to anyone, big penalty for disobeying ur parents as u know, which u also dont follow.

so really while u try to guilt trip me for breaking sabbath u dont even keep these commandments all of them. Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath they wanted to also stone Jesus and disciples for gathering grain on sabbath.

Enow · Oct 28, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Can you point to any religion of the Gentiles that has them keeping the sabbath day holy? I do not believe there is one.

So to assume that the Gentiles know to keep the sabbath day is not legitimate when keeping the sabbath day holy was Israel's signifying trait as God's chosen people in trying to keep His laws by their flesh in being His people as per the Old Covenant... which Paul had testified that they could not keep.

Hebrews 8:[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:[SUP] 11[/SUP]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

If you believed you had to teach Gentiles and other saved believers to keep the sabbath day, then obviously, God is not doing that for why it is of the Old Covenant and vanishes with it in light of the New Covenant where Jesus is Lord of the sabbath day that by being in us and with us always, we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day under the New Covenant.

Hizikyah · Oct 28, 2017

Snoozy said:

Im not trying to guilt trip anyonw, this is a Bible Discussion Forum, and this thread is dealing with this matter... The 7th day Sabbath is one of the 10 Commandments. Also who are you to tell me what I do or dont do, and even if I am the worst sinner ever, that has no bearing on Scriptual truth,by my walk is not the deciding factor on what is valid and what is not. They were accused of profaning the sabbath by pharisees who rejected Yah's ways and made their own laws...

They were blameless because they were doing the work and will of YHWH, that is the purpose of the Sabbath, the pharisees made it about sitting in your house twiddling your thumbs...

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

Hizikyah · Oct 28, 2017

Enow said:

The Sabbath didnt vanish, the Levitical priesthood did.

and Biblical religion has Gentiles keeping the Sabbath directly from the mouth of the Creatir of all that is;

Hizikyah said:

newton3003 · Oct 28, 2017

Re Romans 7:1-4 Marriage is of the flesh, and the Law is of the spirit. The flesh dies, but the Law, like the spirit, doesn't.

trofimus · Oct 28, 2017

newton3003 said:

Where do you see that?

" Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God."
R 7:1-4 NIV

Willie-T · Oct 28, 2017

Of course, without a doubt, the laws that God gave to Moses still apply. However, the consequences for failing to keep them (though we are still supposed to try) were removed from us by Jesus' sacrifice.

Did you somehow get the idea that it was now OK to steal and murder?

trofimus · Oct 28, 2017

Willie-T said:

Evil will always be evil and good will always be good.

It does not mean that some Law is still valid as a whole just because it contains something that is valid in all times.

Willie-T · Oct 28, 2017

trofimus said:

And which of us is wise or righteous enough to pick and choose which we will follow, and which we won't?

trofimus · Oct 28, 2017

Willie-T said:

The apostles inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Willie-T · Oct 28, 2017

trofimus said:

Being "evil" does not excuse keeping God's laws..... it just means that the evil person will answer for that, instead of having Jesus do it for them.

Willie-T · Oct 28, 2017

trofimus said:

And which laws did they tell you to ignore?

trofimus · Oct 28, 2017

Willie-T said:

For example the dietary part of the Law.

Some parts are on my choice like keeping any day or not.

And some parts has become wrong like "hate your enemy" or "eye for an eye".

Some parts were made wider like "do not murder".

Etc.

Willie-T · Oct 28, 2017

trofimus said:

Were any of those on the stone tablets God carved?

Does Mosaic Law Still Apply Today?

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