Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

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dcontroversal said:
January 2nd, 2017
Default Not By Works
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

If you mean what you wrote the way you wrote it, you are wrong! We only become righteous once we have salvation. Otherwise we only do works. You stated righteous works which can only be accomplished once one becomes righteous which is only a result of salvation. Therefore without salvation we only do works, righteous works is a result of salvation.

God Bless!

Obviously....works, good works, righteous works, any works <---NONE can earn salvation.....and by the way...the word righteous simply means right.....decent, moral people do things that are right all the time.....such as give to charities, feed the poor, open doors for little old ladies etc....but it does not save them nor embellish salvation which is by faith alone through grace..... and God's blessing right back at ya....

 

[dcontroversal]

“Work are works are works”

In my opinion this statement is suggesting that all works are the same in that they have, supposedly, nothing to do with salvation. Considering the following verses, I must respectfully disagree.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]who will render to each person according to his deeds: [SUP]7 [/SUP]to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; [SUP]8 [/SUP]but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. [SUP]9 [/SUP]There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, [SUP]10 [/SUP]but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. (Rom. 2: 6- 10) NASB

God bless.

works are works are works in light of how one is saved....regardless of source or quality....they will not save, keep saved and or finish off salvation.........

 

[dcontroversal]

The reason I replied that way is because five or six years ago I was on a site that banned me.
I don't recall if it was this.


The word "hypocrite", though used in other places, is not used in Galatians..


If you think that would be incredible, can you imagine how incredible it is that God made a way to live without sin?
Death of the old man, rebirth, Holy Ghost, mind of Christ, and all the other tools wasted by the folks walking in darkness!
The Lord is "incredible"!
Thanks for reminding me.

If it was this site your breaking the rules again...................

 

[dcontroversal]

Notice how everything with you is about "exalting yourself as sinless" and debasing others as sinful. The difference between you and honest believers is they confess their sin (1 John 1:9), whereas you say you have no sin, deceive yourself, and the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8).

No doubt...makes me think of another person who used to do that non-stop.....

 

[Hizikyah]

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

 

[TruthTalk]

we've certainly seen this spirit before, at any rate. what are you supposed to do with it? it invites us to be vain.

Hi Posthuman, I am as concerned about this as much as you are. I do not think it is healthy spiritually to entertain a heretical doctrine here day after day and do nothing about it. When enough has been said and no change is coming anytime soon, put the person on ignore and let the Moderator's do the rest.

Or sadly to say you can, *not*

Become one of the "ilk", like this one;

 

[preacher4truth]

Hi Posthuman, I am as concerned about this as much as you are. I do not think it is healthy spiritually to entertain a heretical doctrine here day after day and do nothing about it. When enough has been said and no change is coming anytime soon, put the person on ignore and let the Moderator's do the rest.

Or sadly to say you can, *not*

Become one of the "ilk", like this one;

got ilk? ®

 

[posthuman]

Obedience


Luke 14:8-11

"When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest someone more distinguished than you be invited by him, and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this person,' and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place. But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, 'Friend, move up higher.' Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

[VCO]

which are you confessing here - that you need to re-write Romans? or that you also need to re-write the entire Bible, because you think Jesus is just a man? no one is good, but God alone [/QUOTE/

Jesus WAS a man.​

I'm sorry you think Jesus committed sin, but the fact that He was raised from the dead refutes your POV.
Jesus was "good", and thanks to the grace and love of God we can be too..."in Christ".

Of course those who are not "in Christ" are not "good".
And correspondingly, those who are not "good" are not "in Christ".

PJW, a sign that someone is involved in cult, is they WILL NOT LISTEN, or WILL NOT READ THOROUGHLY, what someone else has written to biblically support his disagreement with you. I know Posthuman well enough to know he did not say anything like what you JUST ACCUSED HIM OF. Therefore, I have to conclude you are exhibiting, the characteristics of belonging to a puedo-christian cult.

 

[posthuman]

PJW, a sign that someone is involved in cult, is they WILL NOT LISTEN, or WILL NOT READ THOROUGHLY, what someone else has written to biblically support his disagreement with you. I know Posthuman well enough to know he did not say anything like what you JUST ACCUSED HIM OF. Therefore, I have to conclude you are exhibiting, the characteristics of belonging to a puedo-christian cult.

Aw, thanks VCO

i love you

 

[posthuman]

There is no 'Jesus was'


Jesus IS

for Him to be good, as scripture says 'only God is good' - this proves He is God.

((could show with math but can't type math on phone. Anyhow it's basic logical algebraic manipulation))

God is never 'not God' -- Jesus Christ is never not God.
The great I AM

 

[garee]

Originally Posted by posthuman

which are you confessing here - that you need to re-write Romans? or that you also need to re-write the entire Bible, because you think Jesus is just a man? no one is good, but God alone [/QUOTE/
Jesus WAS a man.
I'm sorry you think Jesus committed sin, but the fact that He was raised from the dead refutes your POV.
Jesus was "good", and thanks to the grace and love of God we can be too..."in Christ".

Of course those who are not "in Christ" are not "good".

God who is not a man as us.He remains eternal God without beginning of days or end of spirit life. There simply is no daysman as a fleshly infallible mediator like the Pope between God and man as a unpire. Demonstration of a daysman yes , fleshly person to include the Son of man, as a infallible interpreter , no.

Jesus which means savior has nothing to do with flesh . The Son of man as Jesus informs us his flesh profits for nothing . it was used for a demonstration of the promise of pouring out His Spirit not seen.

The Spirit of Christ, the Holy anointing Spirt of God as the Son of God dwelt in the flesh. But God not seen does not except worship as coming after the flesh (that seen) .He remains without form as is why the Son of man said only God not seen is good.

When he left he left a warning that even though some did know Christ after the temporal flesh that time had come to an end.

Don’t be faithless without faith, as was Thomas who did know Christ that way.. The same applies to the new creature us we
now no man after the flesh. Removing all boundaries of nations and people. Male or female Jew or gentile. What we will be is not revealed we continue to walk by faith seeking after the goal of our new faith our new incorruptible bodies.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Co 5:16

God remains not a man as us having no beginning of days.He remains without mother or father or end of spirit life.

 

[PJW]

.....
No one here is offended by obedience to God, praise the Lord if you are walking in obedience.
What people are worried is your false teaching that we can live sinless in this present age. The false gospel is what worries us, not the obedience part.
Everyone here is cheering people on in their sanctification and obedience, can I get an amen? Who here is against obedience? I havent heard of any yet.

Essentially, you are saying you "cheer on people who can never reach their intended goal". "Praise the Lord if you are walking in obedience", (which can't happen in this present age).
Obedience to God equates to sin free.
You are kidding yourself if you don't think that the idea of subservience to God isn't offensive to those who serve sin.
To imagine that serving God faithfully is a false gospel, when it was never presented as a gospel, is misdirected...at best.
Living without sin/obedient to God is the result of the gospel.
Without Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, we could never be baptized into that death and resurrection...as new creatures born of Godly seed instead of Adamic.
Those without faith would rather develop grand doctrines to keep sinning.

 

[Seohce]

Evening Seohce,

I hope all is well with you.

You have posted a lot of verses.

I have read them all.

Can I ask that you do this simple man a favour.

Would you mind summing up in a nutshell what it is you are trying to say.

Ta

Thanks Bill and God bless!

We need to BELIEVE, OBEY AND FEAR THE LORD.

To believe is to have FAITH

To obey is to have LOVE

To fear the Lord is to have WISDOM

Through FAITH we have the HOLY SPIRIT

through LOVE we have GOD

Through WISDOM we have CHRIST

ONE WITHOUT THE TWO WOULD BE A FALSE GOSPEL

THEREFORE “FAITH ALONE SAVES” IS A FALSE DOCTRINE

WISDOM IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH

FAITH WITHOUT LOVE(obedience to God’s commands) and WISDOM(knowledge of the TRUTH) is dead

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED IS A FALSE DOCTRINE BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON “FAITH ALONE SAVES DOCTRINE WHICH REJECTS “ LOVE AND TRUTH”

THOSE WHO TEACH AND HOLD TO THESE DOCTRINES PROMOTE AND CREATE DIVISION IN THE CHURCH. THEY SEPARATE FAITH FROM WORKS BY SAYING THAT “FAITH ALONE” (void of works) SAVES, WHICH IS NOT IN SCRIPTURES AND CONTRARY TO WHAT IS IN SCRIPTURES THAT SAYS:

James 2:22,24 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

Jude 1:19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

Romans 16:17-20 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are NOT SERVING OUR LORD CHRIST, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they DECEIVE the minds of naive people. Everyone has heard about your OBEDIENCE, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

Matthew 7:19-20 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits ye shall know them.

Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

1 Timothy 2:3-4 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH.

John 17:17-19 Sanctify them by the truth; YOUR WORD IS TRUTH. As you sent me into the world, I have SENT THEM into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Proverbs 9:10 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of WISDOM, and KNOWLEDGE of the Holy One is UNDERSTANDING

1 Timothy 6:20-21 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is FALSELY CALLED KNOWLEDGE, which some have professed and in so doing have WANDERED FROM THE FAITH. Grace be with you.

1 Corinthians 2:16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” But WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST..

.Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: FEAR GOD and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, for this is the whole duty of man. For GOD WILL BRING EVERY DEED INTO JUDGMENT, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

1 John 4:8,16-17 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him.

1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Galatians 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that BY FAITH we might receive the promise of the SPIRIT.

Romans 10:8-10 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the WORD OF FAITH we are proclaiming: That if you CONFESS with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. For it is with your heart that you believe and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are SAVED.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, ANYONE WHO HAS FAITH IN ME WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.(ref:john 16:8-11)

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY what my Father has COMMANDED me. “Come now; let us leave.

John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.

 

[PJW]

as MMD has stated, and this is the REAL TRUTH,
(CONFESSION AND REPENTANCE) when we fail our Saviour,
are the ONLY things that can bring us into His Presence...
this is where every True Christian abides by...

What is your definition of "repentance"
I use "turn from", or, "change".
2 Cor 7:10 says "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
A Godly repentance will preclude any return to sin.

 

[PJW]

Obviously you cannot read nor understand context....

As these events won't happen till after the final judgement, what sort of man should I be until then?

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't know about "we", but mine was crucified and buried with Christ.
I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. A life with a divine nature.


If your original motive for conversion was sorrow for past sins and to be free of sin and completely pleasing to God, then you are either not praying or reading enough.
You may not have moved away from the people or things that attracted the now dead and gone "you".


First question to ask them is..."Do you commit sin?"
If they say "yes", run as fast as you can.
If they say "no", ask them the explain 1 John 1:8.

Am pretty sure that sin isn't even in the equation.

There are some who have gone past a sin consciousness, and are centered on a righteous consciousness. Doesn't necessarily mean perfection, just that their minds and hearts are on things above, rather than things of the earth.

No pride in this either. Great humility in this mindset.

 

[PJW]

Don't fool yourself...your not as righteous as you think or portray yourself to be...

If not, the wrath of God will give me my just desserts.
Like Paul wrote..."But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Cor 9:27)
I too, by the grace of God, keep myself in subjection to God.

So can you.

 

[PJW]

yes, this person is a 'returning-banned-one',
anyone recognize who this is???

If I was ever banned from this site, it was at least five years ago.
And how would I be able to come back from a banning anyway?
Why would I want to?

this brings great sadness, by showing us that some just cannot stand
correction or true teaching from those who have given over their very lives
to obeying and serving their Holy Master...

Would the ones who have "given their very lives to obeying and serving their Holy Master" fight so hard against obedience and submission to God?

please pray for all who 'kick against the pricks'...

Agreed.

 

[PJW]

Obviously....works, good works, righteous works, any works <---NONE can earn salvation.....and by the way...the word righteous simply means right.....decent, moral people do things that are right all the time.....such as give to charities, feed the poor, open doors for little old ladies etc....but it does not save them nor embellish salvation which is by faith alone through grace..... and God's blessing right back at ya....

I agree completely.
Where we differ is in the cause of and consequences for disobedience.