The end of the world is coming. What should we be looking for?

[Bladerunner]

Sure you are chastising me

Could you please respond to post #173?

I am sorry you take it that way Ellsworth. I can assure you I am not...It is after all your choice.

Let me tell you why I do this. Certainly not to put a feather in my hat.

I am Pre-Millennium Pre Rapture because my hermeneutics (literally, Historically and Grammatically) has not changed from the time I started in Genesis through Revelation. The Good thing about this is, that it all fits together like a glove.

The world has many different views of itself and the denominations and other churches have different views of themselves. As Jesus used the Seven Churches of long ago to chastise or praise the local churches, he also sent it to us for the Future.

Many on this forum have 'fallen away' from the simple teaching of Jesus and have decided to include what they think He said. The only way to do that was to tell everyone, the WORD of GOD with a few exceptional scriptures, was all symbolism or illusionairy.

This is the only way, they the leaders could change the meaning to fit their lifestyles, their worldviews, their Greed, etc. and have anybody believe it.

Case in point, 90+% of denominational Churches are today preterist, who believe that God has nothing MORE to do with Israel since they gave up their inheritance in 32 AD. they also believe there will be NO (depending on full or partial status) Millennial as Jesus is ruling in SPIRIT only from What (His Fathers Throne)..oops . Where is HIS throne that Gabriel told Mary in the very first chapters of Matthew, the Jewish tax collector. Of course there are many out there that believe your works will get you to heaven and just as many believe in other religions. (Islam, Budhism, Satanism (witchcraft), etc.

Many of these churches signed a covenant (understanding) with the RCC about the correct doctrine. Big name Preachers like Billy Graham have strayed from the mainstay of Literal meaning and have come to an all inclusion type doctrine.
By all inclusion, I mean that God loves everybody regardless of what they are doing and will accept them even though they are sinning daily and/or 7-24.

I could go on, but you get the point. I teach the literal view (of which I and others are the minority in today world). I try not to dispute your word but offer a different viewpoint to which the reader has a choice.

We all have one choice (disputed by most churches) on where will our eternal souls wind up..In Hell or Heaven (By today standards,one could add into nothingness, here on earth, reincarnation, etc)

Again, I am sorry you feel that way but I will continue to put the true WORD of GOD thought the AUTHORITY of the BIBLE on this site.

 

[dcontroversal]

Really?! So, you think that with all of the signs that the Lord lists in the Olivet discourse, combined with the events of wrath leading up to the Lord's return as described in Rev.19:11-21, that the Lord can come like a thief during that time? I tell you the truth, if I was here on the earth during the time of God's wrath, I would just watch the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments take place in order. And when the 7th bowl took place, then I would no that he Lord was going to return. It would be no surprise. It would not be like a thief in the night. And because scripture tells us that 3 1/2 years after the setting of the abomination that the Lord will return, I would also know. So how could the Lord's return to the earth to end the age be like a thief in the night? The answer is "it can't be." Therefore, the reference to coming like a thief in the night is referring when the Lord comes to gather the church.

Another big problem for expositors is not discerning that the gathering of the church vs the Lord's return to the earth as being to separate events. And because of this, the misapply scriptures regarding these two events.

Listen....you will not change my mind....I have been where you are and the imminent return does not jive with scripture...there is one body presence of JESUS and ALL things must jive with ONE COMING not two, three or six and PAUL was clear....the coming of JESUS, our gathering is only a thief to those who are IGNORANT of the signs......

a. The saved, lost religious, every eye, kindred, tongue and nation will see him come in the clouds with glory and the exact way he left.

b. His coming is heralded by the lights going out (sun, moon and stars)

c. His coming is heralded by the appearance of the man of sin and the apostasy en masse

d. His coming is at the 7th and final trump (states clearly that the mystery shall be finished and time no more)

e. His coming is heralded by all the signs listed in Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 AFTER the great tribulation

f. His coming is announced by the SIGN of his COMING in the heavens

g. His coming is POST tribulation/PRE-wrath which is ANNOUNCED IN HEAVEN as BEING HERE at the 7th TRUMP not at the 6th seal by LOST MEN hiding in caves

I dogmatically defended the imminent return just as you do...closed minded and thinking ALL were ignorant if they did not believe it was LIKE a thief in the night and in a MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye.......

SORRY....not happening that way......too many scriptures, words, contexts must be swept away to believe it......

 

[Bladerunner]

As I read the many thoughts put forth as to the end time events, it seems that most continue to base their beliefs on NT verses only. Maybe a single verse or two from Daniel.
There is just as much if not more info in the writings of the OT prophets as in the NT. If one is to have a more complete understanding of these end time events, one must spent a great deal of time in OT study.

I agree with you on this post.. DID you know that by reading Revelation that out of some 404 verses, it has some 800_ allusions to the OT. In fact, it will take you to every book in the OT (exception of one). It has some 1100+ prophecies of its own that are yet to be fulfilled.

Daniel is a good book to read...It is where the times of the Gentiles started and that time has not ended to this day.

I could say the same about any of the other 65 books of the Bible, but try to stay on your point of view for this post.

 

[Bladerunner]

a. The thunders are included within the trumpets and can be placed within the ranks of the 7 trumpets

b. It amazes me how you take the words of lost men hiding in caves over the declared announcement in heaven, before the throne concerning the wrath and it's arrival at the 7th trump

BUT Jesus did not put them there,,, He did not write it that way. The Thunders may or may not be a another wrath of GOD...HE did not tell us so WE DO NOT KNOW..... IF we do not know how can we place it anywhere except where Jesus placed in the first place.

 

[Bladerunner]

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Yes, Paul is talking to the church members here telling them they have nothing to fear as long as they watching for his return. In later verses he tells them of his return is in the "AIR"

Question: If a thief comes in the night, why worry about the second advent. We know that His arrival on earth is imminent at the end of Daniel's 70th week. We do not know when but why would it matter at this time if he did comes as a thief. Who is he going to leave behind. They are all dead or in heaven If they took or NOT the mark of the beast.

Here the believers have to prove their believe in HIM... In the Church, it is all by faith.

 

[Bladerunner]

Where does it say theres a gap? I cant find it.

keep reading 24,25, 26 and 27 over and over,,,,It will come to you.

 

[Bladerunner]

There is also nought and naught

Cute,,,,I like it

 

[abcdef]

d. His coming is at the 7th and final trump (states clearly that the mystery shall be finished and time no more)

I agree with you on this, that the 7th trumpet is His coming.

His coming to take possession of the kingdom Rev 11:15.

But what about after that? Is that the end of the planet? No time? No sun, moon, etc.?

The mystery is seeing the face of God?

 

[Rokurac]

Ahwatukee you just told us that thief in the night refers to the rapture happening at any moment (imminent).
Then I posted verses and you changed your position and now claim its talking about the day of wrath which will not overtake believers?

Which one is it? Did I misunderstand?
Are there not only two second comings, but two thiefs in the night?

 

[nddreamer]

I'm inclined to look at the letter to the Laodiceans and at other examples in the Bible as to what to look for.
"Rev. 3:15-17 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot---So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing."
When people are greatly blessed, become filled with pride, and believe within themselves that all their riches come from their own resources and God had no role in it, we are in trouble.
"Ezek. 16:49 This was the iniquity of---Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness."
Pride can be a big problem.
"Dan. 4:30-31 The king (Nebuchadnezzar) spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built---by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty? While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven saying, O King Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee."
He lost his throne for a while and had a really tough struggle for many years. But he finally realized something.
"Dan. 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase."
When people have all they need and lack nothing, they tend to congratulate themselves and forget the source of all their wealth.
"Deut. 8:13,14,17-19 And when---all that thou hast is multiplied, Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the Lord thy God,---And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth. But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth.---And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the Lord thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish."
What are the gods that we walk after and worship today?
"Is. 2:8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made."
In Col. 3:5, everything that we covet is idolatry. What do we covet? The big house, big promotion, big pay check, all the stuff we spend big bucks on. It's getting close to Christmas so I'll add the biggest Christmas display. All things worldly are the things we worship. We don't covet a relationship with the true God. We want the stuff.
"Col. 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked."
Most of us haven't a clue how much trouble we're bringing down on ourselves. It's when it's all taken away that people finally see the truth just like Nebuchadnezzar.

 

[Bladerunner]

I could agree with so many of you......... except that you keep looking for some EVENT called, The GREAT Tribulation just like it is equivalent to this dreamland EVENT of "The Rapture."

You do realize that Jesus told us about the Great Tribulation himself, RIght?

 

[louis]

Greetings Louis,



When Paul said "I know of a man who was caught up to the third heaven" was referring to himself, not someone else. The context says nothing about another person nor Paul still being alive. He was caught up and received visions and revelations and came back down, because Paul is the one who was caught up and who wrote about it afterwards.

Greetings Ahwatukee, You are addressing to many issues simultaneously. Let's start with your first claim about the individual in 2 Corinthians 12:2 & 4 who was caught up to heaven.
If Paul was referring to himself in 2 Corinthians 12:2, then why would Paul in the following verse (2 Cor 12:3), state that he didn't know whether that individual had carnally ascended into heaven or spiritually ascended? Obviously, Paul neglected to ask the individual in what manner he experienced his transcendence.

 

[Bladerunner]

No where does JESUS state his return is imminent....actually quite the contrary.......

There are several of them in the NT but you know all about them already.

 

[kennethleehutch]

We are living in the end times as the end times began when Jesus rose again from the grave. That being said most of the prophesies spoke about before the return of Jesus have come to fruition. The biggest thing we should be looking for is the building of the third temple in Jerusalem.

 

[louis]

You are right!,,,Verse twenty six tells us there is a gap between the 69 weeks and the 70th week. It has lasted 2000 years.


Yes and we are seeing signs that increasing in frequency. Did they see them back then.....Only a comet...... The History tells us there were none of significance.

I am on board with you that there is still time before the 70th week in Daniel transpire.
I am not one of those who believe the events in Daniel chapters 7 through 9 refer to a BC event, but rather refer to events still in our future.

 

[tooldtocare]

Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

(Deu 7:8 KJV) But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

(Deu 7:9 KJV) Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

(Deu 7:11 KJV) Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

(Deu 7:12 KJV) Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:

(Deu 7:13 KJV) And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

~~~~Then we find the following verses~~~~

Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.


(Jer 24:9 KJV) And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.

[TABLE="align: center"]
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[TD]◄ Ezekiel 21:32 ►[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD]You shall be for fuel to the fire; your blood shall be in the middle of the land; you shall be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.[/TD]
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According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population

Note: the verses above were cut and pasted from www.universalknowledge.net

& I got permission to cut & past from that site

-

 

[Bladerunner]

It is my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, that you believe some saints will be left behind at the "rapture".

No. When the Rapture Happens, there will be only non-believers left on earth.


You also believe that "the church" is made up of all the saved, i.e. the saints.

The Church (Body of Christ), Yes is made up of all saved people from earth. I am reluctant to call them Saints as I and they are not Saints yet even though Jesus tells us we are.

You believe that "the church" will not be subject to the wrath of God, and I agree.

Well. Glory be...That is One..... Just rem..we will not likely agree on everything and that is OK as long as we are in the same building. We can let Jesus sort that out.

But if part of the "the church" is left behind, are they not subject to the wrath of God?

The Church (Body of Christ) is not left behind (any of it) and thereby circumvents God's Wrath.

How do you work that all together to be fact/truth.

Again, I am odds with the question (am not sure what you want) but I will try.

Since you and I agree on "the Church" and the fact that it will not be subject to God's Wrath, I will assume (oh me) that you think there will be believers left on earth at the time of the Rapture. This is the reason why I pointed out the parable of the 10 Virgins.

All through the NT we are told as in John 3:14-16.. paraphrasing here...'that Whosoever believeth in Him shall have everlasting Life.' To call upon his name and having faith that what His Gospel states is true. That Jesus was crucified according to scripture, he was buried and was resurrected according to scripture. NOTHING ELSE WILL DO!

I hope this answers this question????..if not ask again and I will try again.

Ellsworth1943, you ask if I would respond to post #173... I will take that #173 is in this thread.. Ok here goes.

 

[louis]

We are living in the end times as the end times began when Jesus rose again from the grave. That being said most of the prophesies spoke about before the return of Jesus have come to fruition. The biggest thing we should be looking for is the building of the third temple in Jerusalem.

Hello kennethleehutch, We are the temple of the Lord (1 Corinthians 6:19; Acts 7:48, 17:24; and a lot more scriptures).
When the Antichrist (the abomination of desolation) stands in the place it ought not (Mark 13:14), this is not a third stone temple built in Jerusalem as many imagine, but instead is the Antichrist standing in our hearts in place of God.

1 Cor 6:19 [FONT=&quot]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

[/FONT]Acts 7:48 [FONT=&quot]Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

[/FONT]17:24 [FONT=&quot]G[/FONT][FONT=&quot]od that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;[/FONT]


Mark 13:14 [FONT=&quot]But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation[/FONT][FONT=&quot], spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:[/FONT]

 

[Bladerunner]

a. The thunders are included within the trumpets and can be placed within the ranks of the 7 trumpets

"the Seven Thunders" are in chapter 10 and are part of a summary/intermission that happens in every set of seven of God's wrath. It is there for your information and could have happened at any time. (i.e Chapter 12- The virgin woman in the stars and her unborn child. Of course, the unborn child already happened so why put it here. A summary/intermission between the 6th and 7th (Seals, trumpets and bowls).


b. It amazes me how you take the words of lost men hiding in caves over the declared announcement in heaven, before the throne concerning the wrath and it's arrival at the 7th trump

Ah, the Rapture happens sometime around the fourth chapter and a look at the throne room of God is given. This represent a "GAP" of unknown time where in chapter 6, God's wrath begins in earnest. Not the 7th trumpet as you allude to.

Hope this helps you understand where I am coming from.

 

[BillG]

Ah yes the end of the world is coming.

Its been coming since Adam sinned.
Even the early chruch thought it was coming in their life time.
And it’s been the same since.

No one knows when the world will end but we know it will end.

Correct me if I am wrong but a lot of what Jesus talked about in Matthew 24 had already happened before he came and is happening after he went back to the Father.

The apostles were killed, early believers were killed and hated by people and nations.
False prophets came before Jesus and after him.
We are seeing the same today.

To me the signs of the end of the world as said above started with Adam and will end when Jesus calls time.

And Jesus said

Matthew 24:13-14
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Then we find in Acts on the day of Pentecost.

Acts 2:5
The Crowd's Response
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

Then we find they went back to where they came from.
So is the prophecy in Matt above fufilled?

We can look for the sign of the times and surmise it’s looming.
Why bother. We know it’s gonna happen one day.

What should we bother about?

Being like Jesus to everyone he has given us in our lives.
Being like Jesus in our lives.