The end of the world is coming. What should we be looking for?

[Ahwatukee]

exactly......

Great tribulation (7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 thunders)---->INGATHERING/Change----->wrath (7 bowls/viols)

Hey D,

There is a reason why John was told not to write what the seven thunders said. And since he did not, we know exactly nothing about what they said or how they fit into the events of Revelation. Just sayin'

The order of events is seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which make up God's wrath, including the plagues from the two witnesses. These things are written and so we can teach them.

It always amazes me how you guys remove the seals and trumpets from being apart of God's wrath.

 

[Bladerunner]

I know that most of the prophesies in Daniel's 70th week have yet to materialize, but when they do, they are not all going to occur simultaneously.
They will grow over time.
Only now are we beginning to see some of the signs in Luke 21:25, in which distress among nations is growing, and environmental issues are becoming more severe.

Luke 21:25 [FONT="]And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]


[COLOR="#0000CD"]You are right!,,,Verse twenty six tells us there is a gap between the 69 weeks and the 70th week. It has lasted 2000 years.


Yes and we are seeing signs that increasing in frequency. Did they see them back then.....Only a comet...... The History tells us there were none of significance.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Greetings Louis,

In 2 Corinthians 12:2 & 4 Paul describes an individual having been "caught up" up to heaven, but then later this individual relates his experience to Paul on the earth, thereby indicating the individual still present on earth.

When Paul said "I know of a man who was caught up to the third heaven" was referring to himself, not someone else. The context says nothing about another person nor Paul still being alive. He was caught up and received visions and revelations and came back down, because Paul is the one who was caught up and who wrote about it afterwards.

There is nothing "kindergarten" about the gathering of the church. The fact is that in John 14:1-3 Jesus said that he was going to the Father's house to prepare places for all believers and that he was coming back to take us there to be with him.

1 Thes.4:13-18 is a detail account of his return to gather his church. And since we are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, which consists of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, then the church cannot be on the earth when they begin and that because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, since the Lord already suffered it on behalf of every believer.

There are so many who have no idea of the severity and magnitude of God's wrath that is coming upon this earth. The fatalities of the 4th seal alone will be a fourth of the earths population, which based on the current population would be over 1.7 billion people dead within the first 3 1/2 years. Then you have the fatalities as a result of the 6th trumpet, which is a third, which would bring the total to over half of the earth population and that is not including the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1, 2 and 3 nor the fatalities caused from the seven bowl judgments.

God's wrath begins with the opening of that first seal, for it is the Lamb who is opening them and he is the One who tramples the wine-press of the wrath of God Almighty, which will be accomplished through all three sets of judgments of wrath.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey D,

There is a reason why John was told not to write what the seven thunders said. And since he did not, we know exactly nothing about what they said or how they fit into the events of Revelation. Just sayin'

The order of events is seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which make up God's wrath, including the plagues from the two witnesses. These things are written and so we can teach them.

It always amazes me how you guys remove the seals and trumpets from being apart of God's wrath.

a. The thunders are included within the trumpets and can be placed within the ranks of the 7 trumpets

b. It amazes me how you take the words of lost men hiding in caves over the declared announcement in heaven, before the throne concerning the wrath and it's arrival at the 7th trump

 

[Ahwatukee]

No where does JESUS state his return is imminent....actually quite the contrary.......

Coming like a thief in the night and at an hour when you least expect it, are some of the ways the Lord described his return to gather the church. Think about the application of "coming like a thief in the night." A thief does not want anyone to know that he is there. He comes and takes what he wants and then leaves without anyone knowing it. So what do you mean that imminence is not stated?

Jesus also said "Therefore watch for you do not at what hour the Son of Man will come." If you have to watch because he said that we would not know at what time he would come, how is that not imminent? And just in case you or anyone wants to apply this to when he returns to the earth to end the age, there are tons of signs leading up to that which could be followed like a road map.

 

[dcontroversal]

Coming like a thief in the night and at an hour when you least expect it, are some of the ways the Lord described his return to gather the church. Think about the application of "coming like a thief in the night." A thief does not want anyone to know that he is there. He comes and takes what he wants and then leaves without anyone knowing that he was there. So what do you meaning that it is stated no where?

Jesus also said "Therefore watch for you do not at what hour the Son of Man will come." If you have to watch because he said that we would not know at what time he would come, how is that not imminent? And just in case you or anyone wants to apply this to when he returns to the earth to end the age, there tons of signs leading up to that which could be followed like a road map.

Yeah.....now read down 3 more verses and apply it biblically......

 

[Rokurac]

Coming like a thief in the night and at an hour when you least expect it, are some of the ways the Lord described his return to gather the church. Think about the application of "coming like a thief in the night." A thief does not want anyone to know that he is there. He comes and takes what he wants and then leaves without anyone knowing that he was there. So what do you meaning that it is stated no where?

Jesus also said "Therefore watch for you do not at what hour the Son of Man will come." If you have to watch because he said that we would not know at what time he would come, how is that not imminent? And just in case you or anyone wants to apply this to when he returns to the earth to end the age, there tons of signs leading up to that which could be followed like a road map.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Yeah.....now read down 3 more verses and apply it biblically......

It's only an on-going misapplication on your part

 

[Rokurac]

You are right!,,,Verse twenty six tells us there is a gap between the 69 weeks and the 70th week. It has lasted 2000 years.

Where does it say theres a gap? I cant find it.

 

[heartofdavid]

So when are you going to post the hundreds of verses that deal wit end time events that you failed to in this post.

There is nothing supporting a gathering of Lot or Noah after judgement is completed.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's only an on-going misapplication on your part

Not hardly.....post 207.....it is an ongoing misapplication by all who use the thief statement to prove the imminent return

 

[dcontroversal]

There is nothing supporting a gathering of Lot or Noah after judgement is completed.

and neither one has anything to with the timing of the particular event....other than the circumstances surrounding the state of humanity....

 

[Ahwatukee]

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Hello Rokurac,

I'm guessing from your post that you are in agreement. When Paul states that destruction will come upon them and that they (unbelievers) will not escape, the following words "but you brothers" infers the opposite of not escaping. And how would we escape that time of destruction, by exactly what Paul previously described in 1 Thes.4:13-18.

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Yes, the meaning of the verse above is that, the day of the Lord, which is the wrath of God, that we will not be here for it. If we remained on the earth, then that day would overtake believers as well, because we would be exposed to the events of wrath the same as unbelievers. God would literally have to have force-fields around every believer to protect them from the events of wrath that are coming. In that respect it makes more sense for the Lord to fulfill his promise to gather us prior to those events opposed to protecting us in the midst of them.

Some of the biggest problems with expositors is their not understanding the severity of God's coming wrath nor its timing, as well as who it is going to be against. It certainly is not going to be against believers who have been credited with righteousness and have been reconciled to God through the shed blood of Christ. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. That said, God's wrath will affect the entire earth and there will be no where to hide. There would be no "blessed hope" and no reason to "comfort one another with these words " if the church was to go through God's wrath, which again is made up of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses will bring.

 

[abcdef]

So you think, that after being delivered up to the Father, to be in His presence,

That we will return to the flesh and the of lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the vain pride of life?

But then you say that the planet will be perfect for 1000 yrs without sin, even though there is still flesh?

You can't have total perfection in the spirit, as God is, and be in the flesh, or in the presence of the flesh,

because the flesh is imperfect and filled with sin. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of GOD 1 Cor 15:50.

----

After you are caught up, and you've been with Jesus for 10 minuets (earth time), you will understand that you will NEVER want to return to this world again.

We are worms! Maggots! Job 25:6. Job 42:1-6.

Do you want to come back and be a maggot, after being in the glorious presence of the Father?

If you saw Him, even as Moses did, from the back Ex 33:18-20, then maybe you would understand what you are really saying.

You think that you will see His face, and then return to this fleshly, sinful, evil, material planet?

NOT! KNOT! AND DOUBLE KNOT!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Hello Rokurac,

I'm guessing from your post that you are in agreement. When Paul states that destruction will come upon them and that they (unbelievers) will not escape, the following words "but you brothers" infers the opposite of not escaping. And how would we escape that time of destruction, by exactly what Paul previously described in 1 Thes.4:13-18.



[/B]Yes, the meaning of the verse above is that, the day of the Lord, which is the wrath of God, that we will not be here for it. If we remained on the earth, then that day would overtake believers as well, because we would be exposed to the events of wrath the same as unbelievers. God would literally have to have force-fields around every believer to protect them from the events of wrath that are coming. In that respect it makes more sense for the Lord to fulfill his promise to gather us prior to those events opposed to protecting us in the midst of them.

Some of the biggest problems with expositors is their not understanding the severity of God's coming wrath nor its timing, as well as who it is going to be against. It certainly is not going to be against believers who have been credited with righteousness and have been reconciled to God through the shed blood of Christ. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. That said, God's wrath will affect the entire earth and there will be no where to hide. There would be no "blessed hope" and no reason to "comfort one another with these words " if the church was to go through God's wrath, which again is made up of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses will bring.

Another fatal error...Paul and Peter tie the Day of the Lord, the Day of Christ and the day of GOD into one day.......Jesus is ALL three....Lord, Christ and God.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Not hardly.....post 207.....it is an ongoing misapplication by all who use the thief statement to prove the imminent return

Really?! So, you think that with all of the signs that the Lord lists in the Olivet discourse, combined with the events of wrath leading up to the Lord's return as described in Rev.19:11-21, that the Lord can come like a thief during that time? I tell you the truth, if I was here on the earth during the time of God's wrath, I would just watch the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments take place in order. And when the 7th bowl took place, then I would no that he Lord was going to return. It would be no surprise. It would not be like a thief in the night. And because scripture tells us that 3 1/2 years after the setting of the abomination that the Lord will return, I would also know. So how could the Lord's return to the earth to end the age be like a thief in the night? The answer is "it can't be." Therefore, the reference to coming like a thief in the night is referring when the Lord comes to gather the church.

Another big problem for expositors is not discerning that the gathering of the church vs the Lord's return to the earth as being to separate events. And because of this, the misapply scriptures regarding these two events.

 

[Magenta]

NOT! KNOT! AND DOUBLE KNOT!!

There is also nought and naught

 

[dcontroversal]

So you think, that after being delivered up to the Father, to be in His presence,

That we will return to the flesh and the of lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the vain pride of life?

But then you say that the planet will be perfect for 1000 yrs without sin, even though there is still flesh?

You can't have total perfection in the spirit, as God is, and be in the flesh, or in the presence of the flesh,

because the flesh is imperfect and filled with sin. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of GOD 1 Cor 15:50.

----

After you are caught up, and you've been with Jesus for 10 minuets (earth time), you will understand that you will NEVER want to return to this world again.

We are worms! Maggots! Job 25:6. Job 42:1-6.

Do you want to come back and be a maggot, after being in the glorious presence of the Father?

If you saw Him, even as Moses did, from the back Ex 33:18-20, then maybe you would understand what you are really saying.

You think that you will see His face, and then return to this fleshly, sinful, evil, material planet?

NOT! KNOT! AND DOUBLE KNOT!!

Read Isaiah......the saints will remain in glorified bodies and the remnant of Israel and maybe a few other nations who go thru in their flesh will re-populate the waste cities of the planet and a child will die cursed at 100......there are numerous verses that allude to the reign of Christ for 1000 years without the influence of Satan, the waste cities being built, every man under his own vine, Saints ruling cities, the command to come before the Lord once a year or rain being withheld etc........

 

[abcdef]

Read Isaiah......the saints will remain in glorified bodies and the remnant of Israel and maybe a few other nations who go thru in their flesh will re-populate the waste cities of the planet and a child will die cursed at 100......there are numerous verses that allude to the reign of Christ for 1000 years without the influence of Satan, the waste cities being built, every man under his own vine, Saints ruling cities, the command to come before the Lord once a year or rain being withheld etc........

Well, pick a verse or passage, let's talk about it.

 

[louis]

If our interpretation of 1 Thess 4:17 is wrong, please tell us what the correct one is.

As in the case with 2 Corinthians 2 and Revelation 12, the rapture is a spiritual ascension to heaven.
In Revelation 12 we see a woman in travail who brings forth a man child who is caught up/raptured to God in heaven.
Correlating with the woman in travail in Revelation 12:5 is Micah 5:3 in which we see another description of the woman in travail who brings forth, after which, the spiritually caught up to Christ brethren are still on earth, and commence to rule with Christ on the earth (Micah 5:2-3).
They (the brethren), are not employed by man, and travel around as did Jesus (Micah 5:7). They receive power, and wherever they go, their enemies are in derision (Micah 5:8-9).

Micah 5:3Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. 3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.


7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.9 Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.