Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

[Enow]

Personally I believe it is a waste of time attempting to teach those
who do not believe the scriptures and therefore do not believe the
very words of Jesus himself, nor do they believe the Pentecostal gospel.

That is correct. I believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ; He is the Good News to man; Not the Pentecostals.

The gospel of John informs us that the Father calls disciples to Jesus
and that no one can come to Jesus except by the Father.
A disciple to be needs a humble heart open to submission to
the word and prepared to be obedient to the commandments of
Jesus concerning the gospel.

Ye [you all] must be born again by water and Spirit ...

You might as well change the scripture for what you had been preaching. You were teaching that no one can be born again except by the laying of hands by a Pentecostal. Right? Remember saying something to that effect. brother?

Arguing and wrestling with the scriptures and denying the truth will
not lead a person to the true Apostolic gospel written in our NTs.

You mean the one Pentecostal wrote from selected references in the Book of Acts and 1 Corinthians, ignoring the rest of scripture that shows you guys are applying His words wrongly like beware those who preach another Jesus, another spirit to received that was not received in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 thus the simplicity of the gospel has ceased??

Remember in the parable of the sower and the seed the stony ground
wherein the birds eat the seed straighaway - sad to say but this is
still true for our times.

More like the parable of the 5 foolish virgins and the 5 prudent virgins where the foolish were out to the market to be filled when the Bridegroom had come for those that has been filled since their salvation.

But God is not mocked. He simply plants other vineyards.
And while the hard-hearted and blind in the West deny the gospel of
salvation preached by Jesus and the Apostles, the rest of the world is
enjoying all the benefits of Holy Spirit revivals whereby these signs are
following those who believe.

In ecumenical format, brother, as a fruit of a false prophet does. How do you explain away the Catholic Charismatic Church that speaks in tongues? With all that manifestations supposedly by the Holy Spirit, during all that time, not once did the Holy Spirit ever reproved them of their works in Catholicism? And you can't understand why I smell a rat in Denmark? How come you don't?

Just go and preach the same gospel as Paul and the apostles did with the hope
that someone is seeking the truth. For the gospel must be preached right up
to that very last day; and then the door shall be shut.

No one preached to seek to receive the Holy Spirit by the sign of tongues, did they? No. They preached Jesus Christ & Him crucified; hence the preaching of the cross. Oh but wait, You derive your gospel of tongues from various selected readings in the Book of Acts in spite of what the epistles to the churches says otherwise to the contrary.

See how that works? You are not defending the gospel of Jesus Christ nor the faith in Him; you are just defending that other calling; that other gospel; that other receiving what you believe was the Holy Spirit by that SIGN of tongues APART from salvation.... by the laying on of hands by a Pentecostal too. Vainglory much, brother?

Which one of us can be accused as a stuck up? Which one of us is higher than the other by that extra calling?

1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]13 [/SUP]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That is what I defend by Whom I can call you brother, and still do, wayward as you are. You defend not calling me your brother because I was not born again by the laying on of hands by a Pentecostal. That makes you a disciple of the Pentecostal church in representation; that is not by any means anywhere near being a disciple of Jesus Christ.

You decide this day Whom you will serve; the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name. Even I needed His help to do even that in spite of my decision in serving Him only. You will need His help too, that is, if you really chose Him.

 

[notuptome]

Personally I believe it is a waste of time attempting to teach those
who do not believe the scriptures and therefore do not believe the
very words of Jesus himself, nor do they believe the Pentecostal gospel.

The gospel of John informs us that the Father calls disciples to Jesus
and that no one can come to Jesus except by the Father.
A disciple to be needs a humble heart open to submission to
the word and prepared to be obedient to the commandments of
Jesus concerning the gospel.

Ye [you all] must be born again by water and Spirit ...

Arguing and wrestling with the scriptures and denying the truth will
not lead a person to the true Apostolic gospel written in our NTs.

Remember in the parable of the sower and the seed the stony ground
wherein the birds eat the seed straighaway - sad to say but this is
still true for our times.

But God is not mocked. He simply plants other vineyards.
And while the hard-hearted and blind in the West deny the gospel of
salvation preached by Jesus and the Apostles, the rest of the world is
enjoying all the benefits of Holy Spirit revivals whereby these signs are
following those who believe.

Just go and preach the same gospel as Paul and the apostles did with the hope
that someone is seeking the truth. For the gospel must be preached right up
to that very last day; and then the door shall be shut.

There is no such thing as the Pentecostal gospel. Paul did not preach a Pentecostal gospel not even in Corinth.

1 Cor 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Waggles]

Nice theory.
And now to practice - does anybody here have anything else than a free vocalization ability?

Yes I have.
I have a pure undefiled spirit language given to me for my prayer life
by the Holy Spirit.

What have you got?

 

[Speak2Me]

1 Timothy 3:1-7 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. [SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, [SUP]3 [/SUP] not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. [SUP]4 [/SUP] He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, [SUP]5 [/SUP] for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? [SUP]6 [/SUP] He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP] Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

Too many novices, that's what I see.
We never can get to the heart of scripture because of all the novices wanting to be elders. Confusion and conceitedness all around.

 

[Waggles]

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles
of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time,
who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our
Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude:1

 

[garee]

Yes I have.
I have a pure undefiled spirit language given to me for my prayer life
by the Holy Spirit.

What have you got?

Words easy to be understood words a person can build a doctrine on, a prayer life using words I can understand as well the other understanding. It would seem yours is of of barbarians when neither hears the other speaking into the air. But if it feels good go for it, its the kind of world we live in .


Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.1Co 14:6

 

[Waggles]

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches,
but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because
they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Corinthians 2:

 

[UnderGrace]

We worship in spirit and truth ( John 4 6-30).

If this private prayer language (supposed language of angels) is not real language given by God, then it cannot be truth, which then is against what Jesus told us to do.

I like your topic, specifically that you specified the topic to be tongues outside of church. Prior to reading this post of yours, I thought you didn't believe in tongues at all.

My question to the skeptics is... Why should tongues (even if not being what some think is real, necessary, or whatever) if being done by the individual outside of the church setting, draw any criticism whatsoever? Are people not allowed to worship God in whatever manner they see fit as long as it is not directly harming someone else?

 

[notuptome]

Yes I have.
I have a pure undefiled spirit language given to me for my prayer life
by the Holy Spirit.

What have you got?

Truth and perfect righteousness in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches,
but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because
they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Corinthians 2:

Receive what of the Holy Spirit? Words that are easy to understand. Or sounds without meaning that make a person feel good as in if it feels good do it.?

 

[Waggles]

[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]which is not another; but there be some that trouble you,
and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel
unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men?
for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:

 

[Waggles]

Pentecost is the one and only gospel and doctrine of the New Testament.
One faith, one doctrine, one baptism, one experience common to all,
one Lord.

Acts 2:38-39 with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.

There was no other. NO Roman Catholics. NO Orthodox churches.
NO Protestant churches. NO American TV ministries.

In the beginning there was only Pentecostalism.
Born new by water and Holy Spirit baptism with the Bible evidence of
converts speaking out in tongues.

When Jesus said "these signs shall follow them
that believe" he really meant it.

 

[shrume]

He also emphasized that not all did speak in tongues or operate in the gifts of healing. How do you reconcile the two?

In the church (in meetings) that is true. It's simply not logistically possible. The meeting would never end.

But if you want to take 1 Cor 12:30 in a more overarching sense, it's simply a statement of fact, and not what God wants (1 Cor 14:5). People do not speak in tongues for several reasons. They don't believe in it, they don't think God gave them the "gift", they forget about it, they think it died out with the apostles, or they simply do not understand what it is or realize that God wants them to do it.

Also, just because God grants one person something and another nothing doesn't make Him a respecter of persons, it means He is sovereign and as the scripture shows, distributes the gifts severally as He will. He isn't obligated to give a person the gift of prophecy, or a word of knowledge. We can't make a demand of it, either. It is His will. We seek and He grants, if it is His will.

1 Cor 12:
7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

It's true that we cannot demand a word of knowledge, word of wisdom, perform a miracle or healing at our whim, those things are done at God's discretion, but Christians CAN operate those manifestations if God calls on them to do so. But every Christian can speak in tongues at will, any time they want to. It is God's will to "pray without ceasing," and to "pray always ... in the spirit", and speaking in tongues is prayer in the spirit.

Also, prophesy is a manifestation, not a gift...

I do like your posts defending the true nature of tongues though, and wanted to at least show my appreciation for the defense you're putting up. Keep it up, its nice to have a person expressing an informed biblical stance.

Thanks, Ben. I appreciate the knowledge and understanding you have.

 

[shrume]

Pentecost is the one and only gospel and doctrine of the New Testament.
One faith, one doctrine, one baptism, one experience common to all,
one Lord.

Acts 2:38-39 with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.

There was no other. NO Roman Catholics. NO Orthodox churches.
NO Protestant churches. NO American TV ministries.

In the beginning there was only Pentecostalism.
Born new by water and Holy Spirit baptism with the Bible evidence of
converts speaking out in tongues.

When Jesus said "these signs shall follow them
that believe" he really meant it.

You're pretty hard-core, Waggles...

Do you think Pentecostals are the only people who will be saved?

I don't.

I believe that anyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved (Acts 16:30-31; Eph 1:13-14; Rom 10:9-10).

 

[Waggles]

You're pretty hard-core, Waggles...

So was Jesus.

Then Jesus said to the Jews who believed on Him, If you continue in My Word,
you are My disciples indeed.
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:31-32

5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the
Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breathes where he will and thou hear his voice: but thou know not whence
he comes and whither he goes. So is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said to him: How can these things be done?
John 3:

As for salvation that is God's business.

 

[plainguy]

[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]which is not another; but there be some that trouble you,
and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel
unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men?
for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:

Paul was/is referencing God's grace freely given us in Christ versus works of the law in Galatians. Any simple read of Galatians makes this crystal clear.

 

[garee]

Pentecost is the one and only gospel and doctrine of the New Testament.
One faith, one doctrine, one baptism, one experience common to all,
one Lord.

Acts 2:38-39 with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.

There was no other. NO Roman Catholics. NO Orthodox churches.
NO Protestant churches. NO American TV ministries.

In the beginning there was only Pentecostalism.
Born new by water and Holy Spirit baptism with the Bible evidence of
converts speaking out in tongues.

When Jesus said "these signs shall follow them
that believe" he really meant it.

Yes a signs of observation follow when a person is born again after the incorruptible seed of God word .

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

They are not sign we are to seek after. Thats another gospel seeking after signs and wonders .Its an evil generation that seeks after a sign. the last sign and wonder (the faith principle) is the sign of Jonas .Christi fulfilled it. Until he does come on the last day we have signs of observation .Not signs to seek after as wonders or marvels.

What is the spiritual meaning of drink poison and it will not harm a person? If a person literally drinks poison men know literally what will follow. How is poison used that way in the scriptures?


Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.


1Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:


Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

 

[garee]

So was Jesus.

Then Jesus said to the Jews who believed on Him, If you continue in My Word,
you are My disciples indeed.
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:31-32

5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the
Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breathes where he will and thou hear his voice: but thou know not whence
he comes and whither he goes. So is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said to him: How can these things be done?
John 3:

As for salvation that is God's business.

Yes to continue in his word is a sign a person believes God. They are given a new spiti and new heart by which they can love God not seen.

Where do you get if we continue to a seek after signs we are his disciples?


Is there a difference between walking by sight and walking by faith?

 

[KelbyofGod]

If this private prayer language (supposed language of angels) is not real language given by God, then it cannot be truth, which then is against what Jesus told us to do.

Personally, I don't see any direct statements in the bible that prayer in tongues is the language of angels. However it does directly state that "if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth..." so I feel confident in saying that praying in tongues is praying in the spirit. The bible doesn't make such a statement about prayer in English or any other earthly dialect.

2nd, I actually kind of chuckled when I thought about the phrase "real language given by God"... because I don't see any biblical declaration that English has been given by God. Most of us were taught it by our parents...and it's got plenty of shortcomings.

Lastly, I apologize that my admitting to chuckling makes it sound like I'm berating your viewpoint. That isn't my intention. I actually appreciate that you took the time to reply.

Thanks,
Kelby

 

[Waggles]

Paul was/is referencing God's grace freely given us in Christ versus works of the law in Galatians. Any simple read of Galatians makes this crystal clear.

Really? That is only part of the message of Galatians ...

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law,
or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 3:

The words "the gospel" appears throughout Acts and the epistles.
What gospel is this?
In my NT there is only one gospel written and preached by the Apostles and
lived by all disciples remaining steadfast in the faith.

Acts 2:38 with the sign of confirmation > speaking in a new tongue.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name
whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them
which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished,
as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out
the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,
which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 10:

compare with Acts 19:1-7

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and
partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ephesians 3: