Not By Works

[PJW]

Belief is acted on, and evidenced through faith, which produces good works, which shines a light into the darkness of this world, in a way that glorifies God,

That's right.
Can you take the next step?
That being, that sin is the evidence of no faith.
Sin is bad works, and shines(?) darkness on the world, and in no wise glorifies God.

at times through confession of sin, rather than hiding them as those who walk in darkness do, because they know their deeds are evil, and they do not wish to be found out.

Confession of sin doesn't glorify God: it is the first step to being a Christian.
Glorify God with obedience.

 

[PJW]

I will give you the benifit of the doubt this one time. We certainly do teach loving obediance, BUT NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF EARNING SALVATION, which is a FALSE GOSPEL. Loving Obedience is a natural characteristic of the Born Again Human Spirit that WAS SAVED THE VERY MOMENT Genuine FAITH first entered our heart. Our ONLY MOTIVE FOR STRIVING TO WALK IN OBEDIENCE IS BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM. What is your MOTIVE for Obeying HIM? If it is to earn Salvation, you are still LOST, are not BORN AGAIN, and do not even KNOW HIM.

What is a motive for disobeying Him?
Lack of love?
Lack of faith?
Lack of belief?
All three?

John 14:15 (HCSB)

[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me {SAVED, SURE OF IT, NEVER CAN LOSE IT, AND THAT IS 100% BECAUSE OF WHAT JESUS DID ON THE CROSS AND WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT DID IN OUR HEARTS}, you will keep My commands.{The Born Again Human Spirit by nature LOVES the Lord GOD, because the Holy Spirit poured GOD's LOVE directly into our hearts the moment we genuinely Believed, Rom. 5:5. Striving to obey Him is how we show our LOVE for HIM; it has nothing to do with Salvation or Keeping Salvation.}

Your additions to John 14 came at the expense of the truth.
The men Jesus was speaking to were not yet "saved, never can lose it, etc."
Jesus had yet to die and be raised from the dead.
They all still walked in the flesh and not in the Spirit.

Stick to the basics, please.
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments".

 

[PJW]

Yes and this scripture comes to mind summing up this perfection lunacy quite nicely...
1Peter chp.4 verse 18(KJV)
"And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

It seems that there is, and shall be, a great divide between Godly and sinner.

speaking on that one can be righteous particularly self righteous and make things as if there are no ungodly people or that they themselves are sinless and won't admit their faults and so stay divided from God though putting on a front as if this is not so.

Is every "righteous" person, self-righteous?
Peter seemed to think there were righteous men around to compare to the unrighteous.
Otherwise they are all the same.

And if you think on it who honestly out in the world will admit that they do wrong,or that they are not perfect,or even tell that they don't believe upon Jesus.
More often than not even non believers seek Jesus, not as a lord and saviour, but as a shield to hide behind.
Keeping from having to give up what is wrong and strive to do right.
One should decide how they treat Jesus.
Do you treat him as a shield to hide from God behind or do you put him on as armor and "let him guide you"?
Also do we believe Jesus as perfect or ourselves there is only one answer!?

Don't you believe that Jesus is perfect?

Can one save one's own soul or is it not within our power and be a gift from God that can only be received by accepting his son Jesus!?

Can one "save one's soul" when not "receiving" Jesus?
Manifest the "receiving" with obedience, then you won't suffer with the "unGodly and sinner".

Do ye delight more in Jesus or in the world, which is more important to you?(not directed at you magenta just everyone in general)

Those "in Christ" are not of this world.

 

[PJW]

You just contradicted yourself then,because you are then choosing "which" scriptures to believe instead of God's word as a whole.

Hmmmm....
You will have to supply the scrip' you feel I have NOT chosen to abide by.

 

[PJW]

Yet "in the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the word was God" so you are therefore incorrect God is the word whom is the father.

Yep.
The Word was God, and manifested in the flesh as Jesus.
The Father was not manifested in the flesh.
The Word was.

 

[PJW]

I could say that I'm perfect but then I would be a liar and therefore fall short of perfection.

The answer to your particular problem is a real "turn from" sin.
Repentance.
Follow that with baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of your past sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
That "immersion" also is our introduction into Christ, and the sharing of Jesus' death, (of our old man), burial. and resurrection.
That resurrection is of a new creature who will walk in newness of a life gendered by God's seed...and incapable of bringing forth evil fruit.
Be perfect, as God has made a way to accomplish it.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yep.
The Word was God, and manifested in the flesh as Jesus.
The Father was not manifested in the flesh.
The Word was.

Do you understand anything out of the bible........so far you are about 0 for 10

If you have seen me you have seen the FATHER <--JESUS

Jesus is the EXPRESS IMAGE (ICON) of the HEAVENLY FATHER <--Hebrews

I have come to the conclusion after watching you post that you get your dogma off of a cracker jack box or coco puff box!

 

[PJW]

They absolutely cannot understand that salvation, faith, justification, being sealed and sanctified in Christ positionally is a GIFT from GOD and based entirely upon the work of Christ and acknowledging that work by faith.....and then....ANY WORK or fruit produced is a direct RESULT OF salvation NOT the SOURCE of salvation....

Why not trade "positionally" for "actually"?
All things are possible with God who strengthens "us".

 

[PJW]

God's Word my friend not mine we believe God or we do not. Everything is as it should be. I do not judge you. It is God's Word that will judge all of us in the last days (John 12:47-48). Sin will keep you out of the Kingdom and is why we all need to seek him while we can today. Tomorrow may be too late. We only have today. The disciples can meet everyday it is great but where in God's Word does it say in God's Word that God's 4th commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? Fact is that there is no scriptures for this.

Who do we believe God or man? It is s fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. He we forgive all that seek him in repentance and ask his forgiveness. Known Sin will keep you out of God's Kingdom.

Why not keep everyday holy?

 

[dcontroversal]

Why not trade "positionally" for "actually"?
All things are possible with God who strengthens "us".

More ignorance on your part....positionally is actually and reality........so...which religion are you.....Pharisee, JW, Mormon....which is it.....so far....other than the actual bible verses you quote...every conclusion is a mixed bag of religious rigmarole......

 

[PJW]

AND then PJW comes back to trying in vain to set you up the very way ALL FALSE PROPHETS TRAIN THEIR PROSELYTES.
PJW said, "Do you deny that Jesus conquered sin while in the flesh? " A trained auto response to set you up to hit you, where they think you will have to agree with their false doctrine.

It is an easy answer, Yes He conquered sin while in the flesh.

Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons do the same thing; but when you ask a question that they do not have a trained auto response for, they are trained to just ignore the question. Amazing how alike the various psuedo-christian Cults really are.

Do you have an answer or will you use an auto response to accuse the asker?
Here is a quick question for you...What one thing do all the false churches have in common?
Think about it before you answer...

Romans 8:10 (NASB)

[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
.

Let's add this verse to your citation..."[FONT=&quot]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.[/FONT]" Rom 8:9)

 

[PJW]

Salvation from what? Seems you still need that heart of stone chiseled at

Salvation from service to sin.
Jesus paid the price for my past sins and enabled me to remain faithful to Him.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Why not keep everyday holy?

The 4th commandment of the 10 says that God made the 7th day a Holy day not the other 6. (Exodus 20:8-11) and some have to work

 

[Seohce]

I will give you the benifit of the doubt this one time. We certainly do teach loving obediance, BUT NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF EARNING SALVATION, which is a FALSE GOSPEL. Loving Obedience is a natural characteristic of the Born Again Human Spirit that WAS SAVED THE VERY MOMENT Genuine FAITH first entered our heart. Our ONLY MOTIVE FOR STRIVING TO WALK IN OBEDIENCE IS BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM. What is your MOTIVE for Obeying HIM? If it is to earn Salvation, you are still LOST, are not BORN AGAIN, and do not even KNOW HIM.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me {SAVED, SURE OF IT, NEVER CAN LOSE IT, AND THAT IS 100% BECAUSE OF WHAT JESUS DID ON THE CROSS AND WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT DID IN OUR HEARTS}, you will keep My commands. {The Born Again Human Spirit by nature LOVES the Lord GOD, because the Holy Spirit poured GOD's LOVE directly into our hearts the moment we genuinely Believed, Rom. 5:5. Striving to obey Him is how we show our LOVE for HIM; it has nothing to do with Salvation or Keeping Salvation.}

Thanks VCO for the BOTD.

I believe that the sin of disobedience separated us from God.

Romans 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Will the disobedient be saved?

Ephesians 5:6-7 LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of such things GOD’S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them.

Ephesians 2:1-2 As for you, you were DEAD in your transgressions and SINS, in which YOU USED TO LIVE when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are DISOBEDIENT.

DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDS IS HATRED FOR GOD.

Romans 8:6-7 The mind of sinful man is DEATH, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is HOSTILE TO GOD. It does not SUBMIT to God’s law, nor can it do so.

Titus 1:16 They claim to know God, BUT BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Romans 1:32 Although THEY KNOW God’s righteous decree that those who do such things DESERVE DEATH, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but ALSO APPROVE OF THOSE WHO PRACTICE THEM.

LET US OBEY GOD WITH OUR HOLY FAITH IN THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST AND THE LOVE OF GOD FOR OUR SALVATION

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”

Hebrews 5:7-10 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Ephesians 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 John 3:14-18 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT LOVE REMAINS IN DEATH. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. This is how we know what LOVE is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not LOVE with words or tongue but with ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.

1 John 5:3 This is LOVE FOR GOD: to OBEY his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND..

Romans 13:10-14 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore,LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW. And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW than when we first believed. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

 

[PJW]

Jesus was God made flesh,he was not a man that was exactly like us
to give such an insinuation is ridiculous,

If that were true, then He is not our example to follow.
He had extra weapons to fight against sin.
Not fair at all, to us.
No wonder so many refuse to emulate Him.

Jesus was the only man who man and God,so therefore did not sin,

But wait a sec.; we receive the Holy Ghost after a true "turn from" sin.
We are given the same connection to Father as Jesus had.

quite a difference,
even though we abide in christ,we are not made the same as him,

You should increase your knowledge of rebirth. (1 John 3:9)

we are set free from the constant influence of sin through him,
this means through him we can resist sin and even some sins no longer do at all,

Doesn't that nullify your above comments?
All things are possible with God, and we are in God.

but not all sins can we even perceive during a day,

I disagree...James writes..."[FONT=&quot]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
If sin requires temptation, lust, enticement, and conception, how can we possibly be unaware of that sin?
Also, it is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
No "flesh"---no lust---no enticement---no sin.[/FONT]

for example,some of the most common yet not so easily perceived sins are being prideful or hurtful towards,
sure a person can say"well I don't do either of those" but think on it
have you said an insult(not necessarily ar curse word)to someone or drawn attention to yourself instead of God during a day?
noone here is insisting for anyone to sin but rather telling the truth that noone,not you,not me,not any man,woman,or child on earth is perfect,

If you are "in Christ" you are perfect.
There is no sin in Christ.

it is God/Jesus that is perfect
not anyone of us on even this entire Christian chat site,
it's the cold hard truth.

Don't buy the lie that no man can please God.
God did everything necessary to free us from service to sin.
Glory to God, He freed me.

 

[PJW]

I don't remember hanging on the cross with Jesus. When dying on the cross Jesus died alone. Even his father turned his back on him. Dying on the cross is not a group activity. Only Jesus was qualified to die on the cross for our sins because He was without sin. You weren't there and neither was I. How arrogant.

It is spelled out in Romans 6:3-6.
Have you no faith in God's gift of baptism: immersion into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection?
If not, you certainly won't believe the results of said baptism..."For he that is dead is freed from sin". (Rom 6:7)

 

[PJW]

I don't remember hanging on the cross with Jesus. When dying on the cross Jesus died alone. Even his father turned his back on him. Dying on the cross is not a group activity. Only Jesus was qualified to die on the cross for our sins because He was without sin. You weren't there and neither was I. How arrogant.[/QUOTE\]

Every time he posts he posts something false...just like denying the dual usage of sanctification....Positionally in Christ spiritually and daily in our physical lives dia the transformation of the mind by the word....

ONLY a false teacher that claims to be sinless would deny the process of growth and sanctification in our daily lives as evidenced by the bible AND all the scriptures that prove it....there are only three people on this site that I have blocked because of their incessant lies, deceit and rejection of truth.....he is 1 of 3.......

Sanctification is not a process.
Unless the application of Christ's sanctifying blood is a process too.
That happens we are in Christ on His cross, (Rom 6:3-6)

 

[PJW]

Only Jesus could bear the cross that he bore.......it was his and his alone...thankfully he nailed the handwriting of ordinances that were against us to it and bore our sins upon that tree.......

Yet Jesus said..."Take up your cross and follow me".

 

[PJW]

Hi VCO, I do not read any of PJW post's. When you are 63yrs of age and entrenched into a heretical cult as he is the only hope he has now is for God to show him the way. At this point I believe he is worse than someone who reject's the Gospel message because he has the bible right in front of him; his sinless perfection will not save him on judgment day.

And I agree with you, what does it benefit anyone to converse with a cultist when all they are doing is telling lies.

Thanks VCO for your message, God bless.

News flash everyone, "Sinless Perfection" is a counterfeit gospel = a counterfeit christ

Sinless perfection is the result of being born again.
I highly recommend it.

 

[PJW]

Because Adam could not keep ONE RULE,
you certainly are not an example of Sinless Perfection keeping a multitude of rules.

But you, on the other hand, advocate a life filled with many sins and claim you already have salvation.
I don't get it.
Adam gets kicked out for one sin.
The Israelites were denied the promised land for their sins.
But your group says no man can quit committing sin.
I don't get it.

I thank God for making the way to resist all temptation till judgement day.