Paul exposes false application of the law

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joaniemarie

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Jan 4, 2017
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you say all this yet in the Covenant ratified in the blood of Yahshua, YHWH says He will put it in our hearts to love and walk in His law.... I trust Him and am living proof of this.

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”




Six-hundred years before Jesus came, the prophet Jeremiah spoke of a new covenant that God would make with his people:

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” (Jer 31:33-34)


What is the law that God writes on our hearts and minds? Here are three things it is not:


  • It is not the law of Moses. if God wrote the Ten Commandments on our hearts then Jesus died for nothing.
  • It is not a new and improved version of the law. It is not the new commands of Jesus or the New Testament. We cannot please God by keeping a new law any more than we could please him by keeping an old one.
  • It is not the knowledge of right and wrong that was bestowed upon us by Adam.

So what is this law that the Lord writes on our hearts and minds and embeds in our very being?


It is himself.


What the New Testament says about the new law in our hearts.

1. The law of love
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)

Under the old law covenant, love was demanded from you. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.” But under the new covenant of grace, love is given to you – “As I have loved you” – and out of the overflow of Christ’s measureless love we are able to love others.

How does it happen?

God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Rom 5:5)


God abundantly pours his love into our hearts by giving us the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ. Do you see the difference between the old and new?


  • Under the old, the law was a rule for weak men to obey. Under the new, the Law is the Spirit of Christ given to us, loving us, and loving others through us.
  • Under the old, you loved others because you feared punishment. But under the new, you love because a Lover lives in you and it is his nature to love.
  • Under the old, you had to make an effort to obey. But under the new you have to make an effort to disobey. It’s a whole new way of life.

2. The law of the Spirit of life


It’s important that you understand the difference between the old law (a written code you can’t keep) and the new Law (Christ himself, living in you). Try and live by the old laws, as Paul did, and it make you miserable:


What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? (Rom 7:24)


Paul couldn’t keep the old law no matter how hard he tried. He needed a new law and that new law is a Who:


Who will rescue me…? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 7:24-25a)


Do you see? The old law is a what; the new law is a Who. The old law ministers condemnation and death (2 Cor 3:7-9), but the new “law of the Spirit gives life” (Rom 8:2).


For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor 3:6)


Who gives life? Not a set of rules, but the Spirit of Christ within you. One more time for emphasis: the new law is a Who.


3. The perfect law of liberty


James wrote of “the perfect law that gives freedom” (Jas 1:25), which can be contrasted with the law of Moses that binds (Rom 7:6). What is the perfect law that gives freedom? Well, what is the implanted word that can save you (Jas 1:21)? It’s not the Ten Commandments or the Bible. It’s Jesus, the living Word who sets us free.


The perfect law of liberty describes what Jesus has done (perfectly fulfilled or completed the law) and the fruit he will bear in our lives (liberty) if we trust him.


But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it – not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it – they will be blessed in what they do. (Jas 1:25)


Look into the mirror of Moses’ law and you will be miserable, for it exposes all your faults. But look into the perfect law which is Jesus and you will be blessed, for it reveals his righteousness.


“Don’t just listen but do what it (the perfect law of liberty) says” (Jas 1:22). In other words, allow the Spirit of Christ to convince you that in him you are righteous and holy. Don’t walk away from the perfect law and forget who you are in Christ. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Look intently with an unveiled face and be transformed into his likeness.


The Law written in our hearts is Jesus


Jeremiah said those who had the new law written on their hearts would know the Lord and would no longer need others to teach them. This is describing your union with Christ. One with the Lord you have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). His Spirit dwells in you and teaches you all things (John 14:26).


The law of the Lord written into your members is your Father’s spiritual DNA. It is the seed of God birthed in you by the Holy Spirit. It’s Jesus himself.


How do you know he’s there? Because you are a new creation with new hopes and desires. You no longer want to sin. Your desire is to love God and others and that desire has nothing to do with old rules written in stone.


Christian, you are who you are because Christ lives in you. He is the new law written, by God, in your heart and mind.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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Do you guys think you are the first ones to be challenged with these questions? These are questions we Christians have had all through the years. Some boldly go forward to find answers while others stop and won't go further because of fear thinking what is being said is to ignore the Bible and the law.

What this means is we are learning to rightly divide the Word and apply the truth through the truth it gives. This takes a willingness to look into the perfect law of liberty. It's good to study and learn and step out in faith daring to believe God has more for us to learn than what we first heard. This boldness comes through the Holy Spirit who is pushing us to step out in faith and learn from Him.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing of the Law.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning[/FONT]
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Exactly. I'm not sure how anyone can even consider Paul's words are not coming straight from Jesus Himself. The Bible is like no other book on the planet and God took care to establish and keep it for allllll these years.

Many people also think that the words in "red" in the Bible are more important than the other words in the Bible. And there is no way to try to talk a person out of this. It takes a "change of mind" to start to see this after one has been believing a certain way for years.

Just because other Christians we respect and have learned from have thought this for years doesn't make it true. Somehow people put more weight on other people's opinions than the "one on one" teaching the Holy Spirit desires to do in each of us as we read the Bible ourselves and live out our lives in and through Him.

It's not something anyone else can do for us. Repentance means getting a change of mind from our way of thinking to God's way of thinking. Then repentance will = the mind of Christ. We're to be seeking to have the mind of Christ in all matters of life. Even if our old ways are full of warm and cozy traditions that sustained our families for years..... we will find that Jesus ways are much more warm and cozy giving us the true security we thirst for each day., than anything we ever had before.

AMEN and the "words in red" were never in red and exactly why I have a black letter edition....fro Genesis to Revelation....the word of God is the word of GOD and CONTEXT determines the truth found there in.....not who said it...ALL 40 plus authors were INSPIRED of the same GOD and it all is of equal weight and or value.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Perhaps you would be good enough to read the thread in which you are posting, and leave others to continue in the thread.?

Your the one that made the assertion and Valiant had a VALID point.....the LAWYERS always default to some invalid point concerning those who teach the grace, truth and mercy found in Christ because their law abiding working for salvation has no valid stance.



Originally Posted by valiant

Perhaps you would be good enough to point out the posts where they have done so.???
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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Listen closely, not being the accuser,, I only warned of people who are in great error........If you want to namee names, ask the accuer.

We are to do our best to save the innocent from the jaws of the enemy.



With your opening phrase, "You are the one," I see where you are coming from.....there is light here, and you should be able to see quite welll by it.


Your the one that made the assertion and Valiant had a VALID point.....the LAWYERS always default to some invalid point concerning those who teach the grace, truth and mercy found in Christ because their law abiding working for salvation has no valid stance.



Originally Posted by valiant

Perhaps you would be good enough to point out the posts where they have done so.???
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Your the one that made the assertion and Valiant had a VALID point.....the LAWYERS always default to some invalid point concerning those who teach the grace, truth and mercy found in Christ because their law abiding working for salvation has no valid stance.



Originally Posted by valiant

Perhaps you would be good enough to point out the posts where they have done so.???
I "see" an invalid point you made DC.

It is these people, who are always confused, thus "fusing", efforts TOWARDS (a) more Spiritual COMPLETENESS, and maturity, with efforts TOWARDS Salvation!

Until this is done? There's always going to be this "war" against the author of confusion!

My advice? "Come OUT of "spiritual babylon!"

Yet? It really comes down to: "How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?"
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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When they were ahungered they turned to God. When they came into the fruituful valley and they were filled they forgot God, turning to the works of their own hands in His stead.

This later description certinly describes those who fashion an idol in their thinking, that is doctrines unakin to the Spirit of God and His gift of the Word.

Do not teach against obedience within the frameework of mercy and grace for rebellion is as witchcraft and stubborness as idolatry.

Anyone who knows salvaation by the Blood of God's Lamb does not intentionally disobey......that is sin, though we all fall short of the glory of God.

It is true our own deeds are as filthy rages, but when we come in spirit and truth to our Salvation we are given robes white as snow. That is to say we are given good works from God, Himself, so we do not appear at His Throne naked..

It is certain some think this unworthy understanding and pure foolishness, they teach disobedience and to conduct onself as an gracious for the gift of eternal life. This should not be, yet it flourishes, everywhere, even in this thread.

The Enemy knows who are his just as our Father knows His children in Jesus Christ.

The Blood of Christ saves all who obey Him, for believing Him would include this.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I "see" an invalid point you made DC.

It is these people, who are always confused, thus "fusing", efforts TOWARDS (a) more Spiritual COMPLETENESS, and maturity, with efforts TOWARDS Salvation!

Until this is done? There's always going to be this "war" against the author of confusion!

My advice? "Come OUT of "spiritual babylon!"

Yet? It really comes down to: "How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?"
I am fairly confident that you do not see as well as you think you do.....
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,195
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See this....

When they were ahungered they turned to God. When they came into the fruituful valley and they were filled they forgot God, turning to the works of their own hands in His stead.

This later description certinly describes those who fashion an idol in their thinking, that is doctrines unakin to the Spirit of God and His gift of the Word.

Do not teach against obedience within the frameework of mercy and grace for rebellion is as witchcraft and stubborness as idolatry.

Anyone who knows salvaation by the Blood of God's Lamb does not intentionally disobey......that is sin, though we all fall short of the glory of God.

It is true our own deeds are as filthy rages, but when we come in spirit and truth to our Salvation we are given robes white as snow. That is to say we are given good works from God, Himself, so we do not appear at His Throne naked..

It is certain some think this unworthy understanding and pure foolishness, they teach disobedience and to conduct onself as an gracious for the gift of eternal life. This should not be, yet it flourishes, everywhere, even in this thread.

The Enemy knows who are his just as our Father knows His children in Jesus Christ.

The Blood of Christ saves all who obey Him, for believing Him would include this.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by valiant
LOL in other words you cant justify your iies??
I will say to you what I have to others, be of sober ind when discussing the Word of God.

Now if yo would have anyone name names of who the sinners are, you will have to go to Satan. I am not begrudging anyone, just saying what is true. So, go ask the devil......not a child of God.
So you cannot justify your lies. The Lord sent me to you. You will have to ask the devil.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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The Blood of Jesus Christ is between me and you. I am washed clean by His blessed gift from the cross. What is going to happen for you in this instance? Do not be quick to label others, it all comes back on your own head. May God grant you the love it takes to always be truthful about faith.

So you cannot justify your lies. The Lord sent me to you. You will have to ask the devil.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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so what is improper us of the law!


1. we keep the law to earn Gods acceptance (justification)


Gal 2: 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

2. We keep the law in order to help us mature in Christ (Sanctification)



Rom 6: 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 7: 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.


These 2 false applications of the law which as paul says is confidently taught by false teachers, (they actually believe and are confident they are right). is devastating to church growth, individual growth and as a church we need to stand against them.


1 Paul makes it clearl it is under grace we have power over sin, not law. The law will not make us good people, grace will


2. We serve god in a new way, by the spirit, not the letter (law)


Today, many call this false teaching legalism.
legalism states


1. we are righteous because we are good, thus we do not need certain things


2. we are bad, thus we do not reserve certain things. so why bother
what does Paul tell us we SHOULD focus on instead?!

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful,
Notice, God enabled Paul not because he obeyed the law and was righteous, but because of his faith!
putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.


Paul is saying instead of focusing on laws, genealogies and fables, focus on Gods grace


1. God came to save sinners


2. He is chief of all sinners


3. because of grace, Paul is enables to do what God wanted him to do. which was to be an apostle, God empowers us in all things, by grace, and mercy, not by works, he enables us and strengthens us.

Rom 11: 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.


Grace and works are opposed to each other, one cancels the other out, it can not be both it has to be one or the other.
2 Tim 4: 18 And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!

Eph 3 20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.


Paul is telling us to appreciate Gods grace, and thanksgiving. These, unlike law will have positive effects on the church and individuals


1. it is contagious


2. it produces humility (as opposed to self-righteousness, which come from following the law)


3. it rekindles our passion to serve others, as we remember remember how God serves and is serving us, who are undeserving based on our personal righteousness


4. It gives us strength and empowers us to forgive and love others.
in review, grace build us up,


Act 20:32 “So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.



where the law gives us a false sense of entitlement, or a can lead to and a false sense of unworthiness.


this is a serious subject, i hope we can discuss this freely and openly, while at the same time learn how a false interpretation of the law can only destroy and divide us, it will never edify us.
I hope we can too EG.

Jesus said we are to live by every Word of God, not just the scriptures that can support a religious teaching. Paul said a lot of things that you don't talk about.

Rom. 2:13, Not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law are justified.

1 Corinthians 7:19, Circumcision is nothing, un-circumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God.

Jesus said, MATT. 19:17, If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

James 1:22, But be ye doers of the Word, not hearers only, deceiving your own self.

1 John 2:4, He that sigh , I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

There are many more not to mention the only scripture that existed in Paul's time which is the Word Jesus said to live by.

So this is the problem with people who "preach" or desire to be teachers of the law as Paul tells Timothy. They post scripture and attempt to define it but they don't have a clue what they are saying because they reject any scripture that might shed a light on the Biblical message. This happens because they are attempting to justify their existing doctrine rather than letting the Word create their doctrine for them.

You must ignore so many scriptures in order to support your "The law wasn't made for Christians" doctrine. You ignore the "works of the law" that existed for the remission of sins that Paul said was "added" until the Seed should come. You ignore the Biblical fact that Abraham was blessed because he obeyed God. You ignore the Biblical fact that Abraham was justified without the Levitical Priesthood " works of the law" for remission of sins because it had not been "added" to God's laws yet.

I mean no offence, You only preach what you have been taught. But you are forced to ignore these many scriptures because they say the opposite of what your religious leaders preach, as prophesied. Desiring to be a teacher of the law (gospel of Christ) not knowing what they say, nor where of they affirm.

Jesus warned about this over and over. People who come in His Name to deceive. How many times in the examples that God wrote for our admonition did Satan attempt to deceive a person into obeying God? How many Faith examples in the Bible were unfaithful to God. How can you love God and not do what He says? How can you know the will of God if you reject the very Book where His will is made manifest?

It would be great to have an intellectually honest and truthful conversation about Paul's writing. But how can we have one if you reject the Word that he taught from, þe Old Testament as the Catholic church named it.

It would be great to have a calm honest conversation about the Word, especially considering the important warnings Jesus gave us. But how can we if all a person does is try and defend a doctrine from a tradition soaked religion who openly transgressed the commandments of God by their man made doctrines and traditions. Who openly create images of God in the likeness of man, in direct rebellion to the first and greatest commandment. Of course you preach we have no law because it condemns Mainstream Christianity just as it condemned the Pharisees, the Mainstream Church of Christ's time.

From experience and from the examples God gave us I am sure this post will not be received well. But it is my hope to have such conversations as a way of "Taking heed" as our Lord and Savior instructed.

One scripture does not over power another. Paul did not contradict himself and neither did Jesus. This is a conversation worth having in my view.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
A lot of posts are gone. Wow. I will try to respond again what I posted yesterday but not sure even all the posts I responded to are here.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning
Have you even read my op my friend? No where in my op am I declaring that we can live in sin, or it is ok to disobey God. I think you need to reread. Because it is obvious by your responses you do not understand what I said.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Honestly I did not read it I was in a hurry, but I find people continually making excuses to not obey. Yes the Law can not and will not save us, however that is no reason not to follow what it says it in spirit and truth.
I did not go back far enough.

Yes, it is evidently obvious you have not read my op. Who is making excuses to not obey? Can you show me in my op where I made excuses not to obey?

My one is about HOW to WORK the POWER within you by God to OVER COME SIN and be SANCTIFIED in spirit and truth.

So please. God back, read, and show me what part you disagree with, at least by then showing you understand what your responding to. Otherwise, I will have to discontinue our conversation in this thread. If you do not understand what your responding to. There is no gain that can be added by continuing this conversation of you bashing something thast is not even true.

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
No one, saved or otherwise is equipped to judge God's laws or cammandments. All are invited to learn of Jesus Christ how they are to be understood and applied.

Yet we have folks judging His wisdom, for His law is wisdom. To judge His law is judging Him, and that is a bad place to be.

Jesus explains all, as I have passed on before many times, how to approach the law, what the three principles are to be applied and how the commandments are to be obeyed, even under grace.

Several people here are posting hyper-grace doctrines created by flesh giving interpretations sto a line here and a line there with no regard to our Teacher's teaching......

You too need to re read my op. You too have utterly no idea what I said, and thus have no basis with which to attack as you are attacking. (Your attacking something that is not even true)

I already showed you my Op was not just about justification, but ongoing daily sanctification and christian growth and having the power to overcome sin.

anyone with an open mind who reads can see this, And for you to continue going off like this is just sad. If you do not havce any desire to know what your responding to. I suggest you stop responding.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I must point out that in Romans you will read from Paul that faith establishes the law. Now, what is established is not dead but confirmed.


The enormous problem it seems with so many is they do not consult Jesus Christ, His teaching, His elaborations, and most of all, His example.

If people wish to ignore Jesus Christ in favor of quoting Paul's letters to specific assemblies with specific problems being addressed, then, so be it, however much anguish ad uncertainty is completely and instaqntly alleviated when we learn from God, that is Jesus Christ Who has invited all who will to learn directly from Him. Paul did this.
This is amazing

My OP said that it is FAITH, and LOVE in christ, thast enables us to overcome sin and be sanctified.

Now your saying I am wrong because I did not say this.

Stop man, Your making yourself look bad..