The end of the world is coming. What should we be looking for?

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Dec 12, 2013
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May I ask a question here? everybody always associate the trumpets and bowls with God's Wrath but the Scroll rolled up was opened by Jesus Christ. The 7 seals leads to the 7 trumpets which in turn leads to the 7 bowls.


When Jesus opened up the first seal....An Angel presented a Rider on a White Horse who had a bow (no arrows), was given a Crown of (a stephanos or a victory crown), with instructions to conquer. FROM WHO---JESUS or GOD's Wrath.

The rest of the Seals were all opened by Jesus,,,Not SATAN,,, and specific order were given to every rider from Jesus Christ. God's Wrath.

The sixth seal we see the Kings, rich and powerful people hiding in caves and declaring who can withstand God's Wrath. This reminds me of Joshua and the walls of Jericho.....WHO was the commander there and where did the Kings HIDE???????

There is an intermission/summary verses that describe in detail how parts of rev is to go down between the 6th and the 7th of all wraths of God.(i.e. seals, trumpets and Bowls). They still are All God's Wrath.

Now, I will say that the 7 Bowls that God filled with His wrath are a different type of wrath but they are still God's wrath and the 7 Bowls just happened to begin the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week or begins Jacob's Troubles.
I do not buy the seals and trumpets are the wrath of God.....the actual announcement of the wrath of GOD before the throne of GOD in heaven as having arrived is found at the 7th trump....not the 6th seal.....the men hiding in the caves believe and SAY that God's wrath is here, but the actual announcement is made at the 7th trump........I will take the announcement made in heaven at the 7th trump over the words of lost men hiding in caves......
 
E

Ellsworth1943

Guest

May I ask a question here? everybody always associate the trumpets and bowls with God's Wrath but the Scroll rolled up was opened by Jesus Christ. The 7 seals leads to the 7 trumpets which in turn leads to the 7 bowls.


When Jesus opened up the first seal....An Angel presented a Rider on a White Horse who had a bow (no arrows), was given a Crown of (a stephanos or a victory crown), with instructions to conquer. FROM WHO---JESUS or GOD's Wrath.

The rest of the Seals were all opened by Jesus,,,Not SATAN,,, and specific order were given to every rider from Jesus Christ. God's Wrath.

The sixth seal we see the Kings, rich and powerful people hiding in caves and declaring who can withstand God's Wrath. This reminds me of Joshua and the walls of Jericho.....WHO was the commander there and where did the Kings HIDE???????

There is an intermission/summary verses that describe in detail how parts of rev is to go down between the 6th and the 7th of all wraths of God.(i.e. seals, trumpets and Bowls). They still are All God's Wrath.

Now, I will say that the 7 Bowls that God filled with His wrath are a different type of wrath but they are still God's wrath and the 7 Bowls just happened to begin the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week or begins Jacob's Troubles.
Not everyone believes the seals and trumps are God's wrath. Seem that those who believe in a pre-trib gathering do.
Only Jesus has the power to open the seals which reveal WHAT IS TO COME. No instructing coming from Jesus.
When the first seal is opened, the Scripture does not say he is instructed to conquer, it simply states that he does.
It is also important to see that the wrath mentioned in Rev.6 has a different spelling than the wrath announced at the seventh trump. Some translations have anger in Rev. 6.
It is also interesting that some translations do not say "His wrath" but "their wrath" in Rev. 6.
Maybe some of you Greek scholars could address this.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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The Antichrist is the leader of the iron legs/toes nation of Daniel 2, and the fourth beast nation of Daniel 7.

He is the Roman Caesar.

It was revealed at the destruction of Jerusalem (dest of Jeru) in 70 AD.

ABCDEF you do have an imagination. Daniel's tell us the antichrist will come from the people of the prince who destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. The prince was General Titus Flavius Vespasian of the Roman Army of the eastern leg of the Roman Army, The western leg falls apart in the near future and the eastern part survives another 1000 years. The people of this army made of people who no doubt live in the area. Micah 5:5 tells the antichrist will be an Assyrian which is where King Nimrod came from. If this happened to day, a Leader from ISIS would be suspect but it is not today Yet.

Anyway the Antichrist will come out of the land of Nimrod.




 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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I do not buy the seals and trumpets are the wrath of God.....the actual announcement of the wrath of GOD before the throne of GOD in heaven as having arrived is found at the 7th trump....not the 6th seal.....the men hiding in the caves believe and SAY that God's wrath is here, but the actual announcement is made at the 7th trump........I will take the announcement made in heaven at the 7th trump over the words of lost men hiding in caves......

Yeah, I know, I read your Book remember..... You also believe in a post rapture which if I remember correctly, nullifies the Millennium. For with every body that believes raptured and everybody else dead, there is no one to populate the millennium.

I could go on, but it is what it is and we will just have to agree to disagree...I know a lot of other good Chrsitian people that have the same view or even more radical ones like the 3/4 rapture or the Mid trib...... We are in the same house and I am content to let God hash it out.

Having said that, I will as you will at every opportunity teach our different side of the bacon. lol. May God bless you my Friend.
Blade



 
Apr 15, 2017
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The wrath of God does not occur until after the 7 years period,for God is allowing the world to have their way so He will not intercede until the 7 years period is over.

Repentance,and salvation,is still available to the world during the first three and one half years,so the wrath of God would not be there for they do not deserve the wrath of God while salvation is still available to them.

The beast has power to rule for the last three and one half years,so the wrath of God is not there,for if it was how does the beast have power to rule for the last three and one half years,and this power can only be given him by God.

God is allowing the world 7 years to have their way,and do what they want to do,and cause them to rebel against Him,so His wrath is not upon them until after the 7 years period is over.

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

The 6 trumpets is not the wrath of God upon the world,but warnings to turn to God,which they do not so He allows the man of sin to rule over them.

The 6th trumpet is a war that causes one third of the population of the world to perish,and nuclear weapons are used,which is probably the religion of Islam and the world,but they did not turn to God,so He allowed the man of sin to rule over them,and deceive the world.

This is not the wrath of God,but a making of the world and their war like ways,in which the religion of Islam rebels against the ten horn kingdom,and unified religious system,which is what they want,so they can use the world's power,and nuclear weapons against them,to eliminate their power,for the man of sin does not want any religion that honors a personal God.

Like Hitler told the Germans that going against the Jews would be a healing of the nation,the man of sin will convince the world that going against all who hold the belief in a personal God will be a healing for the world.

There are a lot of Hitler types out there but they have not been stirred up yet,and given the right circumstance they will be crazy too,for that is the way of the flesh.

The people that follow the man of sin will make Hitler look like a toddler.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63

May I ask a question here? everybody always associate the trumpets and bowls with God's Wrath but the Scroll rolled up was opened by Jesus Christ.


The seals are events that must take place before the scroll can be opened and read.

The 7 seals leads to the 7 trumpets which in turn leads to the 7 bowls.
I believe as you do about the seals and the trumpets, but look at the bowls as running at the same time as the trumpets.

When Jesus opened up the first seal....An Angel presented a Rider on a White Horse who had a bow (no arrows), was given a Crown of (a stephanos or a victory crown), with instructions to conquer. FROM WHO---JESUS or GOD's Wrath.
See Ezek 5:16. Ezek 5 is about the dest of Jerusalem v 5.

Notice the similarity of the 4 horsemen to the vs 16-17.

See the arrows of famine. (famine for the scriptures, the words of God)


The rest of the Seals were all opened by Jesus,,,Not SATAN,,, and specific order were given to every rider from Jesus Christ. God's Wrath.
Who is God's wrath against? (Israel for rejecting the gospel kingdom)

The sixth seal we see the Kings, rich and powerful people hiding in caves and declaring who can withstand God's Wrath.
The great people of Jerusalem 70 AD. Confirmed by Lk 23:26-31,30.


This reminds me of Joshua and the walls of Jericho.....WHO was the commander there and where did the Kings HIDE???????

Yes, but the greater symbolism is, at the 7th trumpet, the walls fall down, at....the 7th trumpet......the walls fall down....


There is an intermission/summary verses that describe in detail how parts of rev is to go down between the 6th and the 7th of all wraths of God.(i.e. seals, trumpets and Bowls). They still are All God's Wrath.
I don't think that love (God) gets angry, like we do. He is longsuffering.

God withdraws Himself (love), His blessings, and protection from people that hurt Him, reject Him.

Like Noah and the flood, when God withdrew His blessings on the earth (element), the waters of darkness came flooding in. When the earth was cleansed, God blessed the earth again.

When we turn from God's love, and turn to sin, then we live with a guilty, painful, broken heart.

When Israel rejected the gospel kingdom and the love of Jesus, Jesus withdrew His blessings and protection over Jerusalem, then the evil flood of the armies of the Antichrist Roman beast came flooding in, as in the days of Noah.

After Jerusalem fell, then Israel had a guilty, painful broken heart. Why, why would God allow Jerusalem to fall, and Israel to be slaughtered? (Ezek 5:11-13), (abominations? v 11)

Now, I will say that the 7 Bowls that God filled with His wrath are a different type of wrath but they are still God's wrath and the 7 Bowls just happened to begin the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week or begins Jacob's Troubles.
Jesus came and began His ministry at the beginning of the 69th week.

In the middle of the week, He was cut off.

3 1/2 years later, Israel rejected the covenant confirmed by Jesus and the gentiles entered the kingdom.

I believe that the 70 weeks ended then, 7 years after Jesus began His ministry.

---

True Israel has suffered for the last 1900 years, could that be part of Jacob's troubles?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
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Not everyone believes the seals and trumps are God's wrath. Seem that those who believe in a pre-trib gathering do.
Only Jesus has the power to open the seals which reveal WHAT IS TO COME. No instructing coming from Jesus.
When the first seal is opened, the Scripture does not say he is instructed to conquer, it simply states that he does.

It is also important to see that the wrath mentioned in Rev.6 has a different spelling than the wrath announced at the seventh trump.
Some translations have anger in Rev. 6.
It is also interesting that some translations do not say "His wrath" but "their wrath" in Rev. 6.
Maybe some of you Greek scholars could address this.
Hello my friend...hope this finds you well. I know you have a post -trib view like DC.

The way the KJV is written "and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." Put yourself in his place. Why would you be given a crown.(of Victory) if not told to go forth conquering and to conquer?

The seals like the trumpets and Bowls were each dedicated or instructed to do something against Mankind. The Bowls in particular against the Jewish People as it is here that we see the prophecy of 2/3 of the Jewish people will die..

The other Three Horses, one sees instructions to take the peace away, to charge for food and to leave the oil and wine alone (the economy of the world), to make war, etc.

The we see the fifth seal which shows us the Martyred followers of Jesus who have been killed for their holding of his word. These I feel are the those martyred during the first four seals. Why? The false Prophet will be riding the beast(antichrist) killing anyone who holds to God's Word to the eventual One WORLD Religion.

The sixth seal is again doing something either dedicated or intstructed In this case the sun goes dark and the moon blood which has to have God's finger upon it....Rem. Satan only has powers God gives him. He is a created being.

There is something else about the this verse. If one will read Joshua 5:13-6:27 I think they will see how the opening of the scroll is a type of Jericho.

Either way, the ones that are in the mountain are really just asking a question. WHo can stand up to God's Wrath?

The trumpets also have special duties to perform or instructions from GOD... the Exception is the Bowls which were Full of God's wrath as poured there by an angel.

Throughout the OT and NT, God's wrath has been used in about 5 different type areas. Maybe yourself or DC can expand on that...

God bless you my friend.
Blade

 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
The wrath of God does not occur until after the 7 years period,for God is allowing the world to have their way so He will not intercede until the 7 years period is over.

Repentance,and salvation,is still available to the world during the first three and one half years,so the wrath of God would not be there for they do not deserve the wrath of God while salvation is still available to them.

The beast has power to rule for the last three and one half years,so the wrath of God is not there,for if it was how does the beast have power to rule for the last three and one half years,and this power can only be given him by God.

God is allowing the world 7 years to have their way,and do what they want to do,and cause them to rebel against Him,so His wrath is not upon them until after the 7 years period is over.

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

The 6 trumpets is not the wrath of God upon the world,but warnings to turn to God,which they do not so He allows the man of sin to rule over them.

The 6th trumpet is a war that causes one third of the population of the world to perish,and nuclear weapons are used,which is probably the religion of Islam and the world,but they did not turn to God,so He allowed the man of sin to rule over them,and deceive the world.

This is not the wrath of God,but a making of the world and their war like ways,in which the religion of Islam rebels against the ten horn kingdom,and unified religious system,which is what they want,so they can use the world's power,and nuclear weapons against them,to eliminate their power,for the man of sin does not want any religion that honors a personal God.

Like Hitler told the Germans that going against the Jews would be a healing of the nation,the man of sin will convince the world that going against all who hold the belief in a personal God will be a healing for the world.

There are a lot of Hitler types out there but they have not been stirred up yet,and given the right circumstance they will be crazy too,for that is the way of the flesh.

The people that follow the man of sin will make Hitler look like a toddler.

The 7 years (Daniel's 70th week or Jacob's Trouble) is designed to bring the Jewish people to the brink of extinction where they will call his name thereby accepting Jesus as their messiah. I think you need to need to do some hard studying.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48


The seals are events that must take place before the scroll can be opened and read.

Do you not read your Bible....WHO opens the Scroll and each Seal, Trumpet and Bowl judgements--Jesus


I believe as you do about the seals and the trumpets, but look at the bowls as running at the same time as the trumpets.



See Ezek 5:16. Ezek 5 is about the dest of Jerusalem v 5.

Notice the similarity of the 4 horsemen to the vs 16-17.

See the arrows of famine. (famine for the scriptures, the words of God)




Who is God's wrath against? (Israel for rejecting the gospel kingdom)



The great people of Jerusalem 70 AD. Confirmed by Lk 23:26-31,30.





Yes, but the greater symbolism is, at the 7th trumpet, the walls fall down, at....the 7th trumpet......the walls fall down....




I don't think that love (God) gets angry, like we do. He is longsuffering.

God withdraws Himself (love), His blessings, and protection from people that hurt Him, reject Him.

Like Noah and the flood, when God withdrew His blessings on the earth (element), the waters of darkness came flooding in. When the earth was cleansed, God blessed the earth again.

When we turn from God's love, and turn to sin, then we live with a guilty, painful, broken heart.

When Israel rejected the gospel kingdom and the love of Jesus, Jesus withdrew His blessings and protection over Jerusalem, then the evil flood of the armies of the Antichrist Roman beast came flooding in, as in the days of Noah.

After Jerusalem fell, then Israel had a guilty, painful broken heart. Why, why would God allow Jerusalem to fall, and Israel to be slaughtered? (Ezek 5:11-13), (abominations? v 11)



Jesus came and began His ministry at the beginning of the 69th week.

In the middle of the week, He was cut off.

3 1/2 years later, Israel rejected the covenant confirmed by Jesus and the gentiles entered the kingdom.

I believe that the 70 weeks ended then, 7 years after Jesus began His ministry.

---

True Israel has suffered for the last 1900 years, could that be part of Jacob's troubles?
I can tell you are not a student of Prophecy? keep studying and don't be so dramatic
 
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E

Ellsworth1943

Guest
Hello my friend...hope this finds you well. I know you have a post -trib view like DC.

The way the KJV is written "and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." Put yourself in his place. Why would you be given a crown.(of Victory) if not told to go forth conquering and to conquer?

The seals like the trumpets and Bowls were each dedicated or instructed to do something against Mankind. The Bowls in particular against the Jewish People as it is here that we see the prophecy of 2/3 of the Jewish people will die..

The other Three Horses, one sees instructions to take the peace away, to charge for food and to leave the oil and wine alone (the economy of the world), to make war, etc.

The we see the fifth seal which shows us the Martyred followers of Jesus who have been killed for their holding of his word. These I feel are the those martyred during the first four seals. Why? The false Prophet will be riding the beast(antichrist) killing anyone who holds to God's Word to the eventual One WORLD Religion.

The sixth seal is again doing something either dedicated or intstructed In this case the sun goes dark and the moon blood which has to have God's finger upon it....Rem. Satan only has powers God gives him. He is a created being.

There is something else about the this verse. If one will read Joshua 5:13-6:27 I think they will see how the opening of the scroll is a type of Jericho.

Either way, the ones that are in the mountain are really just asking a question. WHo can stand up to God's Wrath?

The trumpets also have special duties to perform or instructions from GOD... the Exception is the Bowls which were Full of God's wrath as poured there by an angel.

Throughout the OT and NT, God's wrath has been used in about 5 different type areas. Maybe yourself or DC can expand on that...

God bless you my friend.
Blade

BUT, it does not say Jesus gave him a crown nor does it say Jesus instructed him to do so.
Jesus only opened the seal to reveal what will take place. We must be careful not to assume what is not there.
What about the two spellings of the word wrath? Have you considered why? And also why some translations state "their wrath" not " His wrath".
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
Lots of wrath happening here:






Unfortunately for the futurists this is the same wrath that John the Baptist warned his hearers about that would occur in their lifetimes.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
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BUT, it does not say Jesus gave him a crown nor does it say Jesus instructed him to do so.
Jesus only opened the seal to reveal what will take place. We must bd de careful not to assume what is not there.
What about the two spellings of the word wrath? Have you considered why? And also why some translations state "their wrath" not " His wrath".

I will look into this and report it on another post.
The Seals (God's wrath) like the Trumpets and Bowls that have been set up to produce a specific ending. Since you believe the trumpets and Bowls are God's wrath, what keeps you from accepting the Seals as God's Wrath????? Be Honest my friend.

Since God would be the only one powerful enough to put together the four horsemen and the other seals as well as the only one able to put together the tragedies in the Trumpets and Bowls. (The Bowl judgements are very close to the judgements used against Eygpt in Exodus.)

As far as assuming that God did this vs Satan, I look back to Job and his plight. God had to approve everything that Satan did to Job including killing his wife and kids. Satan does not have the powers to put the Seals, Trumpet or Bowl Judgements together in a way they dictate a specific outcome. And that Outcome is the Bringing Back God People (Israel)to Him.

This is what not only Revelation but all of History is about as we see in Mat 23:37

Yes, the seals, trumpets and Bowls are all set up by Jesus Himself. He opens the Scroll, He brings or has Brought to him (so John can see, feel and taste) all of them prior to their implementation.


There is one other aspect to God's Wrath in Revelation one has to consider. That is where on the ruler of time (Pentecost to the 2nd Advent) are all of these set up. Yes, it only works with a PRE-TRIB Rapture and I do not have to assume add to or subtract from God's Word.

If one goes back to Matt 24,25 along with Luke 13 and lay those things out, They actually mimic Revelation.

I know this is a lot to digest..... Take your time.

 
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Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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Yeah, I know, I read your Book remember..... You also believe in a post rapture which if I remember correctly, nullifies the Millennium. For with every body that believes raptured and everybody else dead, there is no one to populate the millennium.

I could go on, but it is what it is and we will just have to agree to disagree...I know a lot of other good Chrsitian people that have the same view or even more radical ones like the 3/4 rapture or the Mid trib...... We are in the same house and I am content to let God hash it out.

Having said that, I will as you will at every opportunity teach our different side of the bacon. lol. May God bless you my Friend.
Blade



The bolded is wrong....there is clear indication that the remnant of the Jews and some of the nations destroyed in the wrath come through in their physical bodies and rebuild and repopulate the waste cities of the planet...also...a child will die at the age of 100 being accursed and also out of which group does Satan gather together after he is released for a season after the 1000 year reign.....Even Egypt is destroyed, left empty for 40 years (the time Israel wandered) and return into the land and is subservient unto the remnant of ISRAEL....

What is the NEXT issue you have Blade??......I have answered your first objection and rightfully so ;)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Lots of wrath happening here:






Unfortunately for the futurists this is the same wrath that John the Baptist warned his hearers about that would occur in their lifetimes.
Hardly anyone takes you serious...a man that states it all happened 1st century A.D. including the 2 witnesses....has zero credibility in the eyes of one who but does a cursory reading of the bible....Yeah there are a few like you....their views fail the smell test too.....
 
Apr 15, 2017
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The 2 witnesses could of not been in the first century,for when they finish their testimony to Israel at the end of the three and one half years Israel as a nation is in the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

But we see that it did not happen in the first century,for Israel did not turn to the truth,and if they had turned to the truth as a nation that Jesus is their Messiah there would of been no way that the Roman Empire could of went against them and prospered,for God said whenever they abide in the truth no enemy could prosper against them.

And also Israel is blinded in part,until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles,and so all Israel shall be saved,but salvation is still available to the Gentiles,so Israel as a nation has not come to the truth since Jesus was on earth until now.

How does one escape the war involving 200,000,000 men,and if they have an army that size they also have to go against an army of a massive size,so how could they have that many people warring against each other back in the first century.

But this can happen today with Islam against the world.

And also God told us of the an interpretation of the Bible that will occur in the latter times,which the latter times could of not been in the first century.

But today there is the new age movement and their interpretation of the Bible.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
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70 AD.

Caesar and Rome have persecuted true Israel for 2000 yrs.

Titus destroyed Jerusalem.

By destroying Jerusalem it was revealed that Caesar was the Antichrist.

Caesar today is the Bishop of Rome, head of the Vatican.

Caesar and the Roman Empire died, but the image of the Roman Empire, Caesar, and Caesar worship, live on in the form of the Vatican.
so the son of prediction reign for 2000 years? Not 42 months

And you believe son of prediction is some, not one?

you believe son of prediction reign from Rome, not Jerusalem?

you believe son of prediction only persecute Jews not Christian?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
The bolded is wrong....there is clear indication that the remnant of the Jews and some of the nations destroyed in the wrath come through in their physical bodies and rebuild and repopulate the waste cities of the planet...also...a child will die at the age of 100 being accursed and also out of which group does Satan gather together after he is released for a season after the 1000 year reign.....Even Egypt is destroyed, left empty for 40 years (the time Israel wandered) and return into the land and is subservient unto the remnant of ISRAEL....

What is the NEXT issue you have Blade??......I have answered your first objection and rightfully so ;)
Well DC,, we can agree that the remnant of Israel will be saved.

Have a great evening My Friend