Not By Works

[PHart]

I just got home from Walmart. I bought some lasagna

Make sure you eat it all in one setting because as you know 'sealed' means 'not able to be unsealed' in your doctrine. You'll be left staring at the leftovers through the sealed container unable to get to them.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are amazing, you still do not get it.

When you use the term MUST, it some you do to be right with God, which is a FALSE DOCTRINE.

When you use the term WILL, it is HE WHO DID SOMETHING TO CHANGE YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT.


THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS FALSE THEOLOGY,

AND THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JESUS.

Look at the way Young's Literal Translation words that verse you quoted:

2 Timothy 2:19 (YLT)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] sure, nevertheless, hath the foundation of God stood, having this seal,
`The Lord hath known those who are His,' and `Let him depart from unrighteousness-
-every one who is naming the name of Christ.'


2 Timothy 2:19 (CSBBible)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, bearing this inscription:
The Lord knows those who are his, and let everyone who calls on the name of the Lord turn away from wickedness.


2 Timothy 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal:
"The Lord knows those who are His," and,
"Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity."



2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

When they insert MUST in the verse they change what the the original language said. When it sticks with the original language wording, the LET becomes, something we will WANT TO DO, instead of your HAVE TO DO.


If you want to be Born Again, you will have to come to HIM, mourning your sinning your utter sinfulness, and being willing to Surrender every bit of yourself, out of LOVE FOR HIM, giving HIM the right to change anything and everything in you that HE WANTS TO CHANGE. That includes the pride you have in what you think you do to be right in HIS EYES.

All he is doing is making a descriptive text prescriptive. He is taking a verse referencing those already saved and turning it on its head making it into something they must do to save themselves.

When they're already saved.

 

[VCO]

I just got home from Walmart. I bought some lasagna

And cupcakes! They are one bites. I will take them to church tomorrow

No food or drinks allowed in the Sactuary, Pastor said so.

 

[posthuman]

It was required that the Rich Young Ruler obey the law concerning generosity. I quoted it chapter and verse and you still question it? And I'm supposed to be the blind one?

does the Law say sell all your possessions and give the price of them to the poor?

 

[PHart]

When they're already saved.

Yes, the believer is ALREADY saved. The argument is he must continue to believe in order to STAY saved.

You can argue that the believer can never stop believing but that does not change the fact that the believer must still be a believer on the Day of Judgment to be saved on that Day.

 

[PHart]

No food or drinks allowed in the Sactuary, Pastor said so.

What does it matter? 'Sealed' means 'unable to be sealed' in your doctrine. So how can anything that is sealed be accidentally spilled out? Or for that matter, how can it be purposely opened and spilled out according to your doctrine?

 

[stonesoffire]

I know you are terribly influenced by Calvinistic thought along with so many others in the church, but last time I checked 'believing' was not a work of the works gospel. If you can post the scripture that says it is then I will agree with you. But you know there is no such scripture.

Just because the alternate doctrine to Calvinistic thought is we do the believing, by our own choice (through the power of God's faith), that doesn't make believing a work of the works gospel. But by all means, if you are sure the Bible says that, post the passage.

The reason we can not boast in the trusting that God asks us to do in order to be saved is because he provides the faith to do that trusting/believing. Without him our believing can not happen. But that hardly means we don't do the believing by reason of if we did we would be trying to earn our own salvation. That's absurd. Paul never said believing was a work of the works gospel.

It's interesting how in your belief system believing in regard to rewards is indeed us doing the believing, but in regard to justification/salvation it's God doing the believing for us. What a horribly misguided doctrine.

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe in him whom he has sent.

 

[posthuman]

Yes, the believer is ALREADY saved. The argument is he must continue to believe in order to STAY saved.

You can argue that the believer can never stop believing but that does not change the fact that the believer must still be a believer on the Day of Judgment to be saved on that Day.

i do believe that "enduring" is primarily with reference to persisting in faith in the hope that we first received.
but what does it mean, "if we are faithless He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself" ? this is described as a specifically trustworthy saying - as is it's counterpart, that if we deny Him, He will also deny us. so 'faithless' isn't the same as denying Him, right? what is this? it's not simple.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

Yes, the believer is ALREADY saved. The argument is he must continue to believe in order to STAY saved.

You can argue that the believer can never stop believing but that does not change the fact that the believer must still be a believer on the Day of Judgment to be saved on that Day.

Well, I see you think you are still keeping yourself saved. Very sad.

 

[PHart]

JESUS KNEW EXACTLY WHAT the Youn Rich Man's problem was, AND WHAT HIS RESPONSE WOULD BE. It was not how to be SAVED...

No, I did not say that. It is impossible to be saved on the merit of obeying the law. Jesus was pointing out to him that he was not the law keeper he thought he was. The law requires one to be generous to the needy among you.

Which is common among believers and unbelievers alike. They measure their obedience by a few commands they consider to be keeping, not all of them, and insist they are obedient to God.

 

[PHart]

Well, I see you think you are still keeping yourself saved. Very sad.

And I'm guessing you think God made you a believer by design and that's why you're saved, right. That is what is sad. A God who has to create people who trust him, not win their trust through his love.

 

[posthuman]

And I'm guessing you think God made you a believer by design and that's why you're saved, right. That is what is sad. A God who has to create people who trust him, not win their trust through his love.

is a God who has no idea what you will think tomorrow sad? maybe He is biting His holy fingernails right now, anxiously wondering if we will still be saved when we wake up in the morning.

 

[shrume]

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe in him whom he has sent.

This verse is understood in two different ways, one by Calvinists and one by people who believe rightly .

Calvinists understand it as it is the work of God that a person can believe at all. IOW, He makes them believe.

People who believe rightly understand it as when people want to do the work of God, they determine to believe on Jesus Christ.

 

[posthuman]

is a God who has no idea what you will think tomorrow sad? maybe He is biting His holy fingernails right now, anxiously wondering if we will still be saved when we wake up in the morning.

((re-reads John 6:64))

nah, definitely omniscient & sovereign

 

[dcontroversal]

Make sure you eat it all in one setting because as you know 'sealed' means 'not able to be unsealed' in your doctrine. You'll be left staring at the leftovers through the sealed container unable to get to them.

You know.....this view is blasphemous.......and totally undercuts the power of God and the work of His Spirit.....you will answer for this degrading view....

 

[preacher4truth]

And I'm guessing you think God made you a believer by design and that's why you're saved, right. That is what is sad. A God who has to create people who trust him, not win their trust through his love.

And now you're getting more absurd with your false assertions. You have to when your own gospel and assertions of others are #farcenews.

 

[dcontroversal]

If I repost it will you admit you were wrong?

I saw the post you made and the new LAW you came up with....and like normal...you left off half of the verse and made Jesus say something he was not saying....seems your good at that...so which is it....the 12th or 13th commandant

13th Thou shalt be generous......????

 

[Ellsworth1943]

And I'm guessing you think God made you a believer by design and that's why you're saved, right. That is what is sad. A God who has to create people who trust him, not win their trust through his love.

I am saved because I believe. One time event. I am in the hand of my Savior. NO ONE can take me out of His hand. NOT EVEN ME.
I do not believe I am stronger than Jesus as you do.
You believe a person can come and go as he pleases. I do not.

 

[posthuman]

This verse is understood in two different ways, one by Calvinists and one by people who believe rightly .

Calvinists understand it as it is the work of God that a person can believe at all. IOW, He makes them believe.

People who believe rightly understand it as when people want to do the work of God, they determine to believe on Jesus Christ.

hahaha OK how do people who "rightly understand" see Philippians 2:13? or John 12:40? to me these are amazing sayings!!

 

[oldethennew]

His Holy-Love and Sacrifice is what 'wins/woes' our new Love and Trust and Assurance in Him,
after He reveals to us this amazing Spiritual understanding...