What is your reasoning

[Angela53510]

As far as the question, I think the answer is simple! People fail to read the OT over and over, to see what God was preparing for his people, and how.

Sparkman has another thread about the meta narrative of the dwelling place of God. Certainly the metanarrative of Jesus coming, prophecied in the OT, and the love of God to save us, is also woven as a metanarrative from Genesis to Revelation. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever. That includes the OT!

God loved his people so much. But, they disobeyed and went astray. He called them back, with the prophets, and still they did not serve God with their whole hearts. When Jesus came, the Pharisees went to extraordinary lengths to kill him. And he is coming again soon.

God's love permeates the entire OT. From the provision he makes for Adam and Eve in Genesis, through to preserving Israel and taking them to a land of milk and honey. God is always the same. But the sad part is that people are also the same. They are sheep gone astray, rebellious and headstrong. So, if there are issues in the OT, it is because people did not obey God's loving commands, and he had to actually take Judah captive to Babylon, in 583 BC. (Israel was lost to Assyria in 722 BC - they were forced to intermarry, and were never pure in spirit or body again!)

My suggestion is when people say the God of the OT is different, encourage them to read the OT. I know they will find the same God as the one in the NT. And it is usually the people who have not read the OT who say that he is a different God!

 

[preacher4truth]

President Bush said God told him to invade Iraq.

Moses said God, told him to invade Canaan.

God said thou shall not kill (murder).

Who do we follow?

Murder is differentiated from killing.

 

[preacher4truth]

As far as the question, I think the answer is simple! People fail to read the OT over and over, to see what God was preparing for his people, and how.

Sparkman has another thread about the meta narrative of the dwelling place of God. Certainly the metanarrative of Jesus coming, prophecied in the OT, and the love of God to save us, is also woven as a metanarrative from Genesis to Revelation. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever. That includes the OT!

God loved his people so much. But, they disobeyed and went astray. He called them back, with the prophets, and still they did not serve God with their whole hearts. When Jesus came, the Pharisees went to extraordinary lengths to kill him. And he is coming again soon.

God's love permeates the entire OT. From the provision he makes for Adam and Eve in Genesis, through to preserving Israel and taking them to a land of milk and honey. God is always the same. But the sad part is that people are also the same. They are sheep gone astray, rebellious and headstrong. So, if there are issues in the OT, it is because people did not obey God's loving commands, and he had to actually take Judah captive to Babylon, in 583 BC. (Israel was lost to Assyria in 722 BC - they were forced to intermarry, and were never pure in spirit or body again!)

My suggestion is when people say the God of the OT is different, encourage them to read the OT. I know they will find the same God as the one in the NT. And it is usually the people who have not read the OT who say that he is a different God!

There have been some on here who have stated they haven't read portions of Scripture (which were being argued at the moment) for years! If that is the case they have no valid reason to be arguing it or theology. 2 Timothy 2:15 and 1 Peter 2:1 come to mind as support of this by application.

If you're not studious and haven't read it for years then just stop arguing it. It's absurd and frankly hypocritical.

 

[preacher4truth]

People do not like the G-d of the Old Testament He is mean killing everyone unless they follow Him. So just wondering why do you like Y-shua, He is going to throw everyone into hell that are not saved in Him? What is your reasoning to throw the Old Testament out but condom the world to hell that is not Saved????

People argue who haven't even read the entire Bible. Those who think Jesus is different in the NT haven't read or comprehended all the NT.

 

[mcubed]

I know about God... I do not recognise this cut down "G-d" some people speak of.. But apart from that..

I trust that no one shall be cast into the eternal lake of fire by God unless they are trully deserving of such an eternal outcome.. I have Faith that God is just in all His decisions..

As for the Old Testament.. I do not want the OT thrown out.. It is good to read and learn wisdom from it because it is the Message of God..

I find your post most intriguing. What do you mean deserve to be there? Do you mean not found in the Lamb's Book of Life because rejected Y-shua as Messiah or because of their deeds in life?

 

[Hizikyah]

President Bush said God told him to invade Iraq.

Moses said God, told him to invade Canaan.

God said thou shall not kill (murder).

Who do we follow?

so we are using presidents to discredit Moses now?

Hebrews 3:5, "And Mosheh indeed was trustworthy in all His house as a servant, for a witness of what would be spoken later,"

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 49:9-11, “Yehuḏah is a lion’s cub; from the prey you have gone up, my son! He bowed down, he crouched like a lion. And like a lion, who does rouse him? The scepter shall not turn aside from Yehuḏah, nor an Inscriber from between his feet, until Shiloh comes, and to Him is the obedience of peoples. Binding his donkey to the vine, and his donkey’s colt to the choice vine, he washed his garments in wine, and his robes in the blood of grapes.”[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights. And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood (Isaiah 63:2) and His Name is called: The Word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty Strength. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS.”[/FONT]

 

[mcubed]

I have always wondered why people leave the o out when they spell God, it kind of irritates me ...I had no understanding to this...I still do not see the point, is it because some people are afraid , is it a sign of respect to God, I just don`t get it...xox...

I don't know about other people but I leave it out because I am a Jew that grew up Jewish and even though I have been Saved since I was 18 years old I have that respect for Him ingrained in me. It is a cultural thing does not make me a Jew any better than a non Jew or you as a non Jew any better than me. We have differ cultures but both love G-d, God. I would think!?!

 

[Adstar]

I find your post most intriguing. What do you mean deserve to be there? Do you mean not found in the Lamb's Book of Life because rejected Y-shua as Messiah or because of their deeds in life?

Anyone who falls short of the Perfection of God and loves their unrightiousness deserves to be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

Anyone who aknowledges the standards of God to be good and trusts in the way God has made for them to be Redeemed will be Redeemed to eternal life with God..

So our evil deeds and thoughts.. What we have done and what we have failed to do ( a lot of people seem to be unaware that failing to do a good deed is a sin when we know we should have done the good deed) Is the first Justifier of our condemnation.. The rejection if the way of salvation by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ makes condenation even more justified..

 

[MattforJesus]

People do not like the G-d of the Old Testament He is mean killing everyone unless they follow Him. So just wondering why do you like Y-shua, He is going to throw everyone into hell that are not saved in Him? What is your reasoning to throw the Old Testament out but condom the world to hell that is not Saved????

Jesus is Jehovah of the Old Testament,for God said in the Old Testament that it would be Him that would be the Savior,for there was no God formed before God,and there was no God formed after Him,and He is the LORD,and beside Him there is no Savior.

God in the Old Testament said that He would reveal a new name to the Jews,and would speak to them,which would be the name of the Father,and Son.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,so it is the name of God,and the man Christ Jesus,which Jesus said He came in His Father's name,and the Son inherited the name from the Father,and the Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jehovah is Jesus revealing His new name,and reconciling the world unto Himself in Jesus Christ,God and man in harmony.

In the Old Testament God would dish out punishment right on earth,but in the New does not operate like that.

God in the Old Testament was not cruel,but He was loving the same as the New Testament.

He is not a war monger,and said that He winked at the ignorance of the Gentiles,but in the New commands them to repent.

God had to protect Israel from being perverted from the truth,and from her enemies from wiping her out.

If God did not protect Israel she would of been doomed,and salvation is of the Jews,for it is Israel all the way from Abraham to the New Jerusalem.

God put down a thousand to save ten thousand.

God was only against those that would pervert the truth to a big extent,or were physically hurting people,not going against people for little infractions.

If God did not intercede as He did in the Old Testament there would of been more people physically hurt,and more people perverted from the truth.

If God butted out in the Old,and did not put people down,His ways would of been perverted,and a whole lot physically crueler,and Israel would of been history.

God would protect Israel,and every time a kingdom got too arrogant,and spreading their falsehood,and hurting people,God would allow another kingdom to take them down,which was all for the protection of people.

God was only protecting people in the Old Testament,and it is man that is cruel,not God.

God blessed the kingdom of Babylon so much,that they rode on eagle's wings,for they had the revelation of God,and king Nebuchadnezzar proclaimed throughout his kingdom to acknowledge the God of Israel,for He is the greatest God of all the gods.

That is how God operated in the Old Testament,but when king Nebuchadnezzar died his son took the throne,and knew what his father believed,but went against it,and God stripped the kingdom from them,and gave it to the Medes and Persians.

God worked for the good for people,even if they were heathen,so that His ways could be extended,and non violent,but would put them down if they violated too much concerning these things,but for the most part left the Gentiles alone despite their sin,but went against them on a large scale such as kingdoms,and nations.

That does not mean God is cruel,but protecting people from perversion of the truth,and being physically hurt by others.

If a son is walking with his dad in the park,and a man ran up on the son to stab him,and the father put him down,will the son say,gee dad you are cruel,but he will say thanks for saving my life.

God was loving the same in the Old as the New,but punishment was dished out a lot of the time right on earth in the Old,where is it not like that in the New,but punishment still is coming for all those who disobey the truth in the New.

God was loving in the Old to protect His truth,and protect people,especially Israel,but also will dish out punishment in the New for the rebellious,but not on earth as He once did except when He ends this sin business on earth in the future.

And for all who never heard the word of God,creation testifies that there is a God that loves people,and covers the 2 greatest laws,love God,and love people,which is the universal law that covers the history of mankind,so the world is without excuse.

 

[Zmouth]

Anyone who falls short of the Perfection of God and loves their unrightiousness

So is it transgression of the law for the glory of the eternal God to be above that of mortal man?

Or is the transgression of the law for mortal man to think that he has fallen short of the glory of eternal God?

 

[PS]

Murder is differentiated from killing.

Of course murder is different from killing. Someone might unfortunately kill another in a car accident, but to kill someone deliberately is murder which is premeditated and deliberate killing, and that is what Moses did when he did to the Caananites what Hitler did to the Jews.

They not unnaturally condemn Hitler, but they regard Moses as a hero. Talk about double standards!

 

[PS]

People argue who haven't even read the entire Bible. Those who think Jesus is different in the NT haven't read or comprehended all the NT.

Sounds to me like you do not understand the teaching of Jesus.

 

[PS]

so we are using presidents to discredit Moses now?

Hebrews 3:5, "And Mosheh indeed was trustworthy in all His house as a servant, for a witness of what would be spoken later,"

In his role as prophet he gave true testimony "in order that he might in his typical institutions give “testimony” to Israel “of the things” of the Gospel “which were to be spoken afterwards” by Christ (Heb_8:5; Heb_9:8, Heb_9:23; Heb_10:1)." (Jamison, Fawcett, Brown)

Unfortunately with Moses it was a case of "do as I say and not as I do."

 

[mcubed]

In his role as prophet he gave true testimony "in order that he might in his typical institutions give “testimony” to Israel “of the things” of the Gospel “which were to be spoken afterwards” by Christ (Heb_8:5; Heb_9:8, Heb_9:23; Heb_10:1)." (Jamison, Fawcett, Brown)

Unfortunately with Moses it was a case of "do as I say and not as I do."

I understand your point. But this is not about Israel. It is about a G-d who sends people to their second death and it it forever. G-d of the New Testament.... Did He all of the suddenly "get saved" like people say? Is He not the G-d of death in both the Old and New Testaments? He put people to death now in the New Testament one they cannot recover from. Did G-d get meaner in the New Testament ( not at you specifically just a good spot to ask the question)... (love)....

 

[PS]

First of all there is only 1 God and whatever our thoughts about the Trinity, Jesus is either "God with us" Immanuel, or he is God's representative. Either way we can trust and be guided by Him. Jesus is the Good Shepherd, who leads us beside the still waters of Psalm 23 and we can see Jesus leading, caring and protecting the Israelites in the wilderness. It was the I AM who divided the Red Sea, it was the I AM who first spoke to Moses, it was the I AM who gave Moses the commandments and it was the I AM who got them out of Egypt without a drop of blood being spilled.

Then things change. The I AM became Jehovah (Yahweh) and Aaron made a Golden Calf who he calls LORD, saying ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’” (Exo 32:8).

We have the I AM (LORD) giving Moses the commandments and we have Aaron making an image to the LORD. There are two LORDS.

Satan has always been present since Adam and Eve and Satan is known as the imposter and the deceiver. Look at Strongs Concordance and you will see that Yah (H3050) in Yah-Hovah means "god" and if you look at the second part of Yahovah "Hovah" which is Strongs number H1942 you will see it means "eagerly coveting, falling, desire, ruin, calamity, iniquity, mischief, naughtiness, noisome, perverse, very wickedness."

Satan became known as both LORD and Yahovah, and as we read through the Bible we can see two opposites, we can see the true God, the I AM who loves us, saves us, and gave his life for us so that we might have eternal life and we have the people in the crowd shouting out "CRUCIFY HIM." Jesus tells us who their god was in John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

This is the other LORD who the people followed, Yahweh the destroyer and not the I AM who was standing there right in front of them. Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."

 

[Adstar]

So is it transgression of the law for the glory of the eternal God to be above that of mortal man?

Or is the transgression of the law for mortal man to think that he has fallen short of the glory of eternal God?

All men have fallen short of the perfect standards of God.... All have transgressed against His Word..

 

[Adstar]

Of course murder is different from killing. Someone might unfortunately kill another in a car accident, but to kill someone deliberately is murder which is premeditated and deliberate killing, and that is what Moses did when he did to the Caananites what Hitler did to the Jews.

You really need to read the Bible before coming onto a Christian forum making comments.. Moses was barred from ever entering the Promised Land..

Secondly the Hebrews where used by God as an implement of His wrath against the evil deeds of the Canaanites.. God used the Hebrews as executioners of the Canaanites..

 

[PS]

You really need to read the Bible before coming onto a Christian forum making comments.. Moses was barred from ever entering the Promised Land..

Of course Moses was barred from entering the promised land. God was not pleased with him.

Secondly the Hebrews where used by God as an implement of His wrath against the evil deeds of the Canaanites.. God used the Hebrews as executioners of the Canaanites..

Moses married one of those wicked people a Hittite. Then he killed them all.

 

[Adstar]

Of course Moses was barred from entering the promised land. God was not pleased with him.

Moses married one of those wicked people a Hittite. Then he killed them all.

You said Moses killed the caananites...

deliberate killing, and that is what Moses did when he did to the Caananites what Hitler did to the Jews.

No Moses did not go into the promised land so he could not kill the Canaanites....

Secondly it was God who ordered the Hebrews to go into the land and take it off the Canaanites.. They where His implements of wrath against the Canaanites..

Deuteronomy 9: KJV
4 "Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee. {5} Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. {6} Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people."