Not By Works
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Correct, but the one-time, for all time sacrifice has to continually remain before the Father in intercesssion on our behalf (Hebrews 7:25). It continues to intercede on our behalf the same way it started interceding--through our faith in it.
'One time, for all time' means the sacrifice doesn't fade away and burn up so that another sacrifice has to be made for future sin. It means the same sacrifice remains forever before the Father to always intercede on our behalf, keeping us continually forgiven and delivered from the penalty of our sins. And it does that through our faith. Stop believing and it stops interceding on your behalf. Justification is secured through faith.
No, you don't have to keep getting saved (it's impossible to be re-saved anyway). You have to keep believing to keep the salvation you already have. Paul said you are presently saved if you presently hold fast the word of the gospel. So, obviously, you can't be presently saved if you are not presently holding fast the gospel word because of a return to unbelief.
'One time, for all time' means the sacrifice doesn't fade away and burn up so that another sacrifice has to be made for future sin. It means the same sacrifice remains forever before the Father to always intercede on our behalf, keeping us continually forgiven and delivered from the penalty of our sins. And it does that through our faith. Stop believing and it stops interceding on your behalf. Justification is secured through faith.
No, you don't have to keep getting saved (it's impossible to be re-saved anyway). You have to keep believing to keep the salvation you already have. Paul said you are presently saved if you presently hold fast the word of the gospel. So, obviously, you can't be presently saved if you are not presently holding fast the gospel word because of a return to unbelief.
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No, you can not trust without God's help. That hardly means you don't have to trust.
It would help if you understood the argument. You show that you have not even understood the argument yet. But I am used to this in doctrinal discussions. Part of being indoctrinated is not being able to comprehend what you're coming against. I see this all the time. Particularly in OSAS discussions. You are showing me to be no exception.
It would help if you understood the argument. You show that you have not even understood the argument yet. But I am used to this in doctrinal discussions. Part of being indoctrinated is not being able to comprehend what you're coming against. I see this all the time. Particularly in OSAS discussions. You are showing me to be no exception.
Matthew 25:31-46 (HCSB)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
[SUP]36 [/SUP] I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you took care of Me; I was in prison and you visited Me.’
[SUP]37 [/SUP] “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP] When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
[SUP]39 [/SUP] When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’
[SUP]40 [/SUP] “And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!
[SUP]42 [/SUP] For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;
[SUP]43 [/SUP] I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’
[SUP]44 [/SUP] “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’
[SUP]45 [/SUP] “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
[SUP]46 [/SUP] “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
NO, you have to be crazy to think the DEEDS had any part is SAVING THEM. The deeds they did, were NOT done for the motive "to earn Salvation", they did not even know what they did would be perceived by Jesus Christ as deeds done unto HIM.
THEY DID THE DEEDS because the HOLY SPIRIT HAD TRULY ENTERED THEIR HEART, BIRTHING THEIR HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE, and POURING GOD'S LOVE IN THAT NEW LIVING SPIRIT. BECAUSE OF GOD'S LOVE BEING IN THEIR SPIRIT(Rom. 5:5), they manifested GOD's LOVE to their fellow man. THE DEEDS WERE NOT DONE TO GAIN ANYTHING IN RETURN. THEY DID THE DEEDS BECAUSE THEY TRULY WERE SAVED - PAST TENSE.
Please repent, and COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, and RECEIVE HIM AS LORD, and GOD's LOVE will be poured into you.
I think you would have to go back a page or two to see where the conversation between eg and I originated...
He said to have mistrust in a circumstance was a different thing than denying Him. But to me, it is the same as denying Him to deny something He has said. However, He doesn't expect us to walk by light He has not yet given us. Which is why I said that to be faithless in a circumstance comes from one of three possibilities.
Eg was the one who used the phrase "not trusting a circumstance." I was using his phrase. Like I said, youd have to go back a page or two to where the chat began.
He said to have mistrust in a circumstance was a different thing than denying Him. But to me, it is the same as denying Him to deny something He has said. However, He doesn't expect us to walk by light He has not yet given us. Which is why I said that to be faithless in a circumstance comes from one of three possibilities.
Eg was the one who used the phrase "not trusting a circumstance." I was using his phrase. Like I said, youd have to go back a page or two to where the chat began.
I would have to disagree with the bolded and agree with the underlined
Every word is inspired and profitable for.....according to 2nd Timothy 3:16-17
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works
Every word is inspired and profitable for.....according to 2nd Timothy 3:16-17
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works
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Good, then you agree that one must believe to the very end to be saved. You just believe they can't stop believing.
I'm fine with the argument, though I don't agree with it--I believe that genuine saved believers can stop trusting in Christ. (Jesus himself talks about those who stop believing.) The important thing is you agree that only those who believe to the very end will be saved in the very end.
That's right. Only a return to UNBELIEF can forfeit your salvation. The worst of failings, all the while trusting in Christ, can not separate you from the surety of your salvation. Only unbelief can do that.
Justification is through believing. Stop believing and the Sacrifice before the Father in heaven no longer intercedes on your behalf and you will not be protected from the penalty of your sins anymore. No more sacrifice remains for the person who willfully turns away in unbelief from the one and only sacrifice for sin that exists (Hebrews 10:26).
I'm fine with the argument, though I don't agree with it--I believe that genuine saved believers can stop trusting in Christ. (Jesus himself talks about those who stop believing.) The important thing is you agree that only those who believe to the very end will be saved in the very end.
That's right. Only a return to UNBELIEF can forfeit your salvation. The worst of failings, all the while trusting in Christ, can not separate you from the surety of your salvation. Only unbelief can do that.
Justification is through believing. Stop believing and the Sacrifice before the Father in heaven no longer intercedes on your behalf and you will not be protected from the penalty of your sins anymore. No more sacrifice remains for the person who willfully turns away in unbelief from the one and only sacrifice for sin that exists (Hebrews 10:26).
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J
I agree with not the part where you said it's impossible to get saved again,so that's at least some more understanding to your side of things which is good,the issue still remains of this "keep believing" thing,I don't get how you can figure that once someone is saved that they are thereafter going to stop believing at some point,it to me makes no sense,even simon peter denied Jesus 3 times yet still believed in him,now there was doubting thomas and so I can understand a person doubting Jesus's death and resurrection,but Jesus and God I don't see anyone after being saved,no longer believing in God/Jesus,now thomas accepted Jesus's death but not his resurrection until Jesus appeared to him,but he "still believed in him" because just as soon as Jesus appeared he said he didn't need to do what he said he needed for verification,he was just "simple minded" what he saw he in his mind could not deny that Jesus died and since he didn't see him resurrect he denied that he resurrected,I understand you are "worried" but that's where faith comes in,we ought to take God/Jesus at his word,if you "Love God/Jesus" you don't seek unbelief you seek him always,to believe is to know,not to guess,believing is not something you stop when you know.