Great discussion guys. I too, must say I am noticing some of the things that PS is pointing out. Now I wouldn't go so far as to say that there are two Gods being described, but rather, much of what was written depicts totally different understandings of the One True God, and dare I say some of the writers had the wrong understanding.
Consider Elohim in the early chapters of Genesis. This is good because it fits into the topic of that odd verse in Samuel I mentioned earlier. The Word is quite clear that Elohim created all things and saw that everything was GOOD. This means there was absolutely zero evil in earth or in heaven.
The "Elohim" of Genesis /Bereshith is YHWH:
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Genesis 2:4, “These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Elohim made earth and heavens.”
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◄ Genesis 3:1
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Text Analysis
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%"]Str[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%"]Translit[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%"]Hebrew[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 25%"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%"]Morph[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
5175 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
wə-han-nā-ḥāš[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Now the serpent[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
1961 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
hā-yāh[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]הָיָ֣ה[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]was[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
6175 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
‘ā-rūm,[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]עָר֔וּם[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]more subtle[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Adj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
3605 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
mik-kōl[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]מִכֹּל֙[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]than any[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
2416 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
ḥay-yaṯ[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]חַיַּ֣ת[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]beast[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Adj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
7704 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
haś-śā-ḏeh,[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]הַשָּׂדֶ֔ה[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of the field[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
834 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
’ă-šer[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אֲשֶׁ֥ר[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]which[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Prt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
6213 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
‘ā-śāh[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]עָשָׂ֖ה[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]had made[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
3068 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
Yah-weh
[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]
יְהוָ֣ה
[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]
the LORD[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
430 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
’ĕ-lō-hîm;[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אֱלֹהִ֑ים[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]God[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
559 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
way-yō-mer[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וַיֹּ֙אמֶר֙[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]And he said[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
413 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
’el-[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אֶל־[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]unto[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
802 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
hā-’iš-šāh,[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]הָ֣אִשָּׁ֔ה[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the women[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
637 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
’ap̄[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אַ֚ף[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]indeed[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
kî-[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]כִּֽי־[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]for[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
559 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
’ā-mar[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אָמַ֣ר[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]said[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
430 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
’ĕ-lō-hîm,[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אֱלֹהִ֔ים[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]has God[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
3808 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
lō[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]לֹ֣א[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
398 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
ṯō-ḵə-lū,[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]תֹֽאכְל֔וּ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]eat[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
3605 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
mik-kōl[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]מִכֹּ֖ל[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]from any[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
6086 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
‘êṣ[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]עֵ֥ץ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]tree[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]
1588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]
hag-gān.[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]הַגָּֽן׃[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of the garden[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]
Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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But then, a couple of things happened that drastically changed things. 1. Halel (Lucifer; although we are not given his original name, both mean morning star) exercised his free will and revolted against Elohim and took one third of the angels with him; 2. Eve and Adam exercised their free will and disobeyed Elohim.
As soon as this happens, the very foundations of the earth groaned with disarray because sin and evil had entered it, and creation was never meant to house such things. Thorns grew. Pain started. Scripture doesn't even indicate that Elohim dealt this out as punishment, it was simply a direct consequence of nature reacting to evil entering it for the first time.
Under this pretense, nothing evil ever came directly from Elohim.
and nothing has ever from YHWH the Elohim/Mighty One.
Now, as we read further into Exodus, and particularly going into Leviticus through Samuel, we first learn Elohim's revealed name, YHWH. But we also begin to see a very different (and dare I say, corrupt view of Him starting to emerge.)
Asshown above this is incorrect, not tryin to be rude, as if I did not care I would not continue o reply in this hread, but you seem to not be well learned in the word nor to understand it properly, however I resepct you seeking of truth, I sincerely do, but I think these misunderstandings are cauding you to look at things from a slanted view.
The depiction of Him very quickly changes from the Almighty Creator God of Genesis to being described as a war deity who only cares about Yisrael alone and nobody else. And it is here that we first start reading of descriptions of evil evidently "coming from God".
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Luke 12:51, “Do you think that I came to give peace on earth? I say to you, no, but rather division."[/FONT]
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Matt 10:34, “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."[/FONT]
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John 17:9-10, “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I have been esteemed in them."[/FONT]
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Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights. And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood (Isaiah 63:2) and His Name is called: The Word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
. And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty Strength. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS.”
Would you consider Jesus a "war God" He smites the natiopns with a rod of iron.
Why?
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Revelation 11:18, “And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”
The depiction of Him very quickly changes from the Almighty Creator God of Genesis to being described as a war deity who only cares about Yisrael alone and nobody else. And it is here that we first start reading of descriptions of evil evidently "coming from God".
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Isaryl are His people, and Israyl is not simply a bllodline or race of people, but anyone who follw YHWH is Israyl;
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Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]
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Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]
and it has been the same since the beginning;
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and for the stranger who sojourns with you[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]so is the stranger before יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and for the stranger who sojourns with you[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]
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Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
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1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore cleanse out the old leaven, so that you are a new lump, as you are unleavened. For also Messiah our Passover was offered for us. So then let us observe the festival, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."[/FONT]
About evil coming from God comment, if you take the passage we talked about to say YHWH is evil for an evil spirit coming upon Shaul for disobedience then you are choosing to see the Creator in a bad light, not taking into consideration what is actually going on in the passage and in my assumption would you not have to blame Him for creating satan? We can get into some philosophical views but it is non sense, for one would have to be willingly ignorant of Scripture to isolate and apply “evil” to YHWH. Same thing about going to war against foreign nations, Israyl did not battle every nation, and the ones YHWH commanded them to battle against were burning their children in fires to Baal, attacking Israyl, the animals and destroying the land so no food could be grown. Do you suppose it would have been better for YHWH to allow it to happen and Israyl be exterminated and the Messiah never born?
There must be a missing link somewhere.
Could Jesus be that missing link?
That's a bit rhetorical, because I believe that before the foundations of time was even created; The CROSS. Immanuel! Jesus was never plan B or C etc.
Yahshua/Jesus was of course the plan A, Yah knows the end from the beginning. YHWH testified of the coming Messiah many tiomes in the "OT"