Grace alone or grace plus works?

[Depleted]

No joke but my typing stutters.. hehe..

I type 45 wpm.

I typo 90 wpm. lol

 

[Bladerunner]

In other words, You do not TRUST Christ, You think God needs your help..

Good luck with that.

Hummmmmm.....Hope he has a backup plan because this will probably not work?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

How can I unless God draws me. In other words don't blame me, blame God.

Every human being has a conscience and every human being knows that their Is a GOD.

Sidenote:
IF a person doesn't know what's right or wrong then they may be too young to know or they may have had an Injury...etc...

sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Have you tried getting the Not By Works thread back on-topic lately?

This topic (and the many threads and millions of posts concerning it) is a good example of the wisdom of God confounding the wise though. The gospel is supposed to be so simple that a child can understand it, but lots of adults who are professional christians - got the church membership card, got the different bible versions and commentaries, know how to look up greek and hebrew definitions - make heavy weather out of deciphering it. Why I've even seen good christians insult each other over this topic.

Salvation is at the heart of this "good news" gospel that is supposed to be so simple, but when I follow these threads it sure is complicated enough to make my head hurt.

I Totally agree and did you see how quick "the chosen & elected" ones took over the thread.

Makes you wonder how many of the posters here could complicate making a PB&J sammich.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The question now is "when"?

"When" does this faith/works become salvation? At what point does the faith/works manifest itself into the forgiveness of sins? Surely this forgiveness does not happen over time but at a point. Without knowing this point how can anyone know they are saved?

At the point that you are truly repentant GOD comes In and does a work creating you In CHRIST unto good works that was preordained that you should walk In and as for knowing you are saved,you KNOW by faith and that's how you know,you just know.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
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[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Ephesians 2:8-10King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


have I really added or have I micro sized for the title of my would be thread?



Romans 3




27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it isone God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.



[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


What deeds do you think Paul is referring to.. I would suggest you read from verse 1 though I will not post it all..





We are Justified by Faith.. fact. Let us consider the Law of Faith a little more than Not by works of Righteousness which we have done.. considering even verse 8 of the shame chapter tells us that we who have Believed should be careful to maintain good works.. etc..



Titus 3

3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Paul said we are saved by grace through faith NOT OIF WORKS lest anyone should boast.

So when you go twist Paul’s words and say we are saved by grace through faith and works. You are twisting the word of God.

Paul said those Saved by grace THROUGH FAITH not by WORKS WILL DO THE WORK OF GOD.’

Youy wasn’t to twist Gods words. Sufffer the consequences.

Nothing you said here backs your works theology.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe His point is what saves us . Yes naturally a visible manifestation of our salvation no matter how small should be apparent. That is not what is being discussed. What most having a different opinion have expressed is that the good works proceed salvation.
Blessings
Bill

Sadly people do not seem to want to find out what we are discussing, they want to just interject their opinion, whether it fits or not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If she did not mean to say faith through works, she should never have said it, Anyone on the streets who knows the Bible especially eph 2 would question her.

 

[TruthTalk]

The question now is "when"?

"When" does this faith/works become salvation? At what point does the faith/works manifest itself into the forgiveness of sins? Surely this forgiveness does not happen over time but at a point. Without knowing this point how can anyone know they are saved?

Hi DJ2, I can only give you the example of how salvation and forgiveness of sins "manifest itself ", in my life. The morning after God saved my soul, I went about telling everyone I knew, that I gave, surrendered, my life to Jesus Christ, and I am now a born again Christian.

I can only describe it as the second best day of my life because the first best day of my life was when my wife was born again, "Amazing Grace." So the question is really, "Now not When"

For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. 2Corinthians6:2

 

[loveme1]

Paul said we are saved by grace through faith NOT OIF WORKS lest anyone should boast.

So when you go twist Paul’s words and say we are saved by grace through faith and works. You are twisting the word of God.

Paul said those Saved by grace THROUGH FAITH not by WORKS WILL DO THE WORK OF GOD.’

Youy wasn’t to twist Gods words. Sufffer the consequences.

Nothing you said here backs your works theology.

Sadly people do not seem to want to find out what we are discussing, they want to just interject their opinion, whether it fits or not.

If she did not mean to say faith through works, she should never have said it, Anyone on the streets who knows the Bible especially eph 2 would question her.

You are just slinging your beef my way.. hoping something sticks..

I am not allowed to post anything without you trying to accuse.. GOD be thanked others are not wearing specs from accuse.com

 

[DJ2]

I would not want you riding in the car with me when I'm lost. I'd be asking if I should turn left or right, and your answer would be "hotdog!"

The question is never "when," since the answer is the eternal, omniscient, omnipotent time-and-space God! God is outside of "when," and yet in "when." He is the creator of "when."

When did God create? He's God! He's eternal. He has always known everything and always able to do what HE wants "when!"

Do you think there was a time "when" God did not know creating earth and then creating Adam and Eve was going to hold problems? Do you think there was a time when he did not know what would happen next? Do you think anything ever happened without his sovereignness smothering everything? There is no WHEN! God saved before he first spoke the words "Let there be." He saved once! The name of that salvation is Jesus, who died on a cross painfully for all the Lord planned to save. And that saved worked for Adam and Eve because they took his word for it way back when. And it worked for Job, Abraham, Moses, David, Hosea, etc. And it has worked for Peter, Bartholomew, Jude, and the rest of the guys. And it has worked for Augustine, Constantine, Huss, Luther, Calvin, Henry, Ten Boom, and quite a few people on this site.

God is the When. He is the Savior. He has always been the Savior and will always be the Savior.

If you'd get over your obsession of what you can do, maybe you can finally get beyond "when."

We do not need to know when we are saved. We should know if the Lord saved us though.

It beats "hotdogs" for an answer. It even beats "left" or "right."

So there is no "when"?

 

[loveme1]

I could start the Saved by Grace through Faith unto good works thread... missed you 7seas..

Can any one spot the and in the above for me?

 

[DJ2]

Hi DJ2, I can only give you the example of how salvation and forgiveness of sins "manifest itself ", in my life. The morning after God saved my soul, I went about telling everyone I knew, that I gave, surrendered, my life to Jesus Christ, and I am now a born again Christian.

I can only describe it as the second best day of my life because the first best day of my life was when my wife was born again, "Amazing Grace." So the question is really, "Now not When"

For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. 2Corinthians6:2

So you can only answer the question as it relates to you?
Is this true of all of us or just you?

 

[Dan58]

The question now is "when"?

"When" does this faith/works become salvation? At what point does the faith/works manifest itself into the forgiveness of sins? Surely this forgiveness does not happen over time but at a point. Without knowing this point how can anyone know they are saved?

The moment we exercise it.. Faith manifest itself when we ask for our sins to be forgiven and repent of them.

Salvation occurs the moment we believe the gospel and accept Christ as our personal Savior. Faith is the substance and evidence of what we've chosen to believe. Grace being unmerited favor is not earned, its simply substantiated and acknowledged by our faith (works). The malefactor on the cross demonstrated faith when he asked Christ to remember him. Jesus said many times to those who came to him for healing; "Thy faith has made thee whole"

I think belief and faith are often categorized as the same thing, you can have belief without faith, but you can't have faith without belief. We first hope, next believe, and then faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are just slinging your beef my way.. hoping something sticks..

I am not allowed to post anything without you trying to accuse.. GOD be thanked others are not wearing specs from accuse.com

Your allowed to post whatever you want. But this is a discussion forum, so if your afraid to be confronted by things you post. Maybe you better go someplace else.

What you posted was error. You should know better than that. ANd you shoudul have known someone would have responded to what you posted.

 

[DJ2]

Paul said we are saved by grace through faith NOT OIF WORKS lest anyone should boast.

So when you go twist Paul’s words and say we are saved by grace through faith and works. You are twisting the word of God.

Paul said those Saved by grace THROUGH FAITH not by WORKS WILL DO THE WORK OF GOD.’

Youy wasn’t to twist Gods words. Sufffer the consequences.

Nothing you said here backs your works theology.

Anyone who claims a grace only theology and then adds the need for faith, whether from God or not is violating their own theology. Only means only. If you want to teach grace alone or faith alone, wear the hat or change your message.

If God can save by grace alone He does not need to give you or anyone else faith to fulfill His will. Get over yourself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Anyone who claims a grace only theology and then adds the need for faith, whether from God or not is violating their own theology. Only means only. If you want to teach grace alone or faith alone, wear the hat or change your message.

If God can save by grace alone He does not need to give you or anyone else faith to fulfill His will. Get over yourself.

John 6, It is the WORK OF GOD that we believe in the one he sent.

Faith in someone else is not a work. In fact it is VOID of works. It is trusting someone else to do the work for you.

Again, Please go back to school. WHoever your teachers were have failed you miserably.

 

[preacher4truth]

Anyone who claims a grace only theology and then adds the need for faith, whether from God or not is violating their own theology. Only means only. If you want to teach grace alone or faith alone, wear the hat or change your message.

I always love the above straw man argument. Or perhaps it's just willful ignorance on your part.

All 5 Solas go together, hand in hand. Those ignorant of this fact love to take one Sola and then assault it.

But here's the clincher: it is really Solus Christus of the 5 that is under attack in the false works gospel. That's a fact.

 

[preacher4truth]

John 6, It is the WORK OF GOD that we believe in the one he sent.

Faith in someone else is not a work. In fact it is VOID of works. It is trusting someone else to do the work for you.

Again, Please go back to school. WHoever your teachers were have failed you miserably.

He tells you to get over yourself when you lean on Christ, while he preaches himself and works. Lol!!!

 

[BillG]

The question now is "when"?

"When" does this faith/works become salvation? At what point does the faith/works manifest itself into the forgiveness of sins? Surely this forgiveness does not happen over time but at a point. Without knowing this point how can anyone know they are saved?

I would say that forgiveness of sins did happen at one point.

We see in Matthew the following

Matthew 27:45-46
Jesus Dies on the Cross
45 Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Then we see in John

John 19:28-30
It Is Finished
28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” 29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

And

Matthew 27:51


51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,

When Jesus was on the cross from the 6th to the 9th hour the sins of the world were being placed upon him
When he said it is finished he was saying. It is finished is actually an accounting term.

“paid in full.” What was paid in full? The debt of sin.
Jesus eliminated the debt owed by mankind—the debt of sin.

So if I am correct then the point in time that our sins and the sins of the world were forgiven was when Jesus said “It is finished, debt of sin paid for”

When the curtain temple was torn in two that means we can come before the throne of God through faith

Romans 5:1-2
Chapter 5
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God..

We receive the forgiveness of our sins when, being justified

Romans 10:9-11
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”

So faith and works do manifest together for the forgiveness of sins.

Genuine faith as Romans says saves us, once being saved we then manifest works as a result.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.