Grace alone or grace plus works?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Is salvation by Grace alone?

  • Salvation Is by Grace alone through faith.

    Votes: 42 87.5%
  • Salvation Is by Grace through faith plus works

    Votes: 6 12.5%

  • Total voters
    48

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,538
3,775
113
Yeah, I think that is what I am trying to say...guess I'll need to explain my thoughts a little more on this...

I think that when we are saved which is only by the grace of God that we become new creations in God...We receive the Spirit and we begin to grow and acquire the fruits of the Spirit. Which essentially is love and goodness. Sin and the works of the flesh are no longer as appealing as they used to be and we begin to hate sin...not that we will never be tempted or make mistakes, But God begins his work within us and it does become evident in our lives that we are changed and are more Christ like. We want to please God by following him and being more like him. This includes caring about, loving, and genuinely wanting to help others.
What if the new believer gets under false preaching? What if the new believer has no discipleship to grow?

Btw, I know a lot of lost people who genuinely care and love others.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,125
4,519
113
Yeah, I think that is what I am trying to say...guess I'll need to explain my thoughts a little more on this...

I think that when we are saved which is only by the grace of God that we become new creations in God...We receive the Spirit and we begin to grow and acquire the fruits of the Spirit. Which essentially is love and goodness. Sin and the works of the flesh are no longer as appealing as they used to be and we begin to hate sin...not that we will never be tempted or make mistakes, But God begins his work within us and it does become evident in our lives that we are changed and are more Christ like. We want to please God by following him and being more like him. This includes caring about, loving, and genuinely wanting to help others.
New creations indeed.

A new heart

Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

A new heart he has given us, it is he who causes to walk after him.

As a result of this even when we get it wrong we know it is wrong.
A new heart that hates it when we get it wrong and cry out to him.
We see sin in a different light and do not want it.
Sin is darkness but the Holy Spirit brings it into the light.

And even though we struggle we know the light.

What is the law?

To me it’s the law of love.

We love God and we love others. Our neighbours and even our enemies.
As we walk in that we decrease and Jesus increases and others see it.

Surely if they see then they want is.
The love of Jesus is needed today just as much as it was needed when he walked the earth.

What comes out of our hearts, words

Psalms 40:3
3 He has put a new song in my mouth—
Praise to our God;
Many will see it and fear,
And will trust in the Lord.

May those God has given us to walk with, hear the words of Jesus in our heart which accompany our actions.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
What if the new believer gets under false preaching? What if the new believer has no discipleship to grow?

Btw, I know a lot of lost people who genuinely care and love others.
I think that is why it is important that we all work on our own personal relationship and know him for ourselves. If we have faith in God he is faithful and I don't think he will let us be deceived. So we have to trust in Jesus and seek him, because after all he is the author and finisher or our faith.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
New creations indeed.

A new heart

Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

A new heart he has given us, it is he who causes to walk after him.

As a result of this even when we get it wrong we know it is wrong.
A new heart that hates it when we get it wrong and cry out to him.
We see sin in a different light and do not want it.
Sin is darkness but the Holy Spirit brings it into the light.

And even though we struggle we know the light.

What is the law?

To me it’s the law of love.

We love God and we love others. Our neighbours and even our enemies.
As we walk in that we decrease and Jesus increases and others see it.

Surely if they see then they want is.
The love of Jesus is needed today just as much as it was needed when he walked the earth.

What comes out of our hearts, words

Psalms 40:3
3 He has put a new song in my mouth—
Praise to our God;
Many will see it and fear,
And will trust in the Lord.

May those God has given us to walk with, hear the words of Jesus in our heart which accompany our actions.
Amen..Awesome post brother.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,198
1,815
113
Lets see if faith alone is, oh I found it!

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

But dont worry guys it aint works salvation cause thats just talking about justification before men. Ya gotta read the context am I right? If you're truly saved by faith alone you produce works.
Thats why the bible tells us over and over to do things. I thought they come automatically?
Is faith without works,dead to GOD?answer=no
Is faith without works,dead to man?answer=yes
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
Yeah, that is one of the best posts I've seen...:)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,125
4,519
113
What if the new believer gets under false preaching? What if the new believer has no discipleship to grow?

Btw, I know a lot of lost people who genuinely care and love others.
John146.

You have asked a great question and I am glad you have asked it.

I have to be honest I have been so frightened of falling foul of that question.

I spent many years and turmoil of not sharing what I feel to be correct.
I spent many many years of researching scripture and both sides of the equation concerning understanding of scripture.

I backed off from discipleship.

One day I was pulled aside by my pastor and he asked me to lead a ministry of discipleship, for new believers and those seeking Jesus.

I said no to start with and explained why. And the reason why is exactly your question “What if the new beliver gets under false preaching”

I was so frightened of standing before God and hearing him say “You false preacher you led a brother astray”

My pastor said to me “There is one thing that is apparent, and it’s apparent becuase so many people have said to me that you are walking with them and loving them (to be honest I had to scratch my head and think who) you are already preaching in a sense. What is apparent is that you are preaching Jesus and encouraging people to seek Jesus.

That is what God will look at.

God will look at our hearts when we disciple people.

If a new believe has no discipleship to grow God will look at their heart.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,198
1,815
113
Could there be like a third option that says something like grace alone through faith which produces works. In my opinion, we are not saved by works. We are saved by grace through faith which produces works. Not that we should go around judging others or brag on our own works because it is through the grace of God that we are saved and it is God that works in us for good.
A!though that Is most defiantly correct what you posted right there I only gave two options so no one could sit on the fence so to speak.

Either give GOD ALL the credit or say that your works help GOD...
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,198
1,815
113
Lets try to make sense of the madness and confusion

Faith means fidelity, faithfulness, steadfastness, firmness, trust. All of that.

For by grace (thats something God grants) are ye saved, through faith (this is our part) not of works (like the pharisees were claiming in Acts 15:1 works of the law dont justify but faith working by love) lest any man should boast. (Genuine repentance does not cause boasting, but rather humbles us before God).

Disobedience and unbelief are the same thing.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Obedience and belief are the same thing.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Read Hebrews 11 for a full break down of what faith is in action.

During the times of Noah when the world was in complete wickedness as it is prophecied to be before the Lord returns, Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

There is the grace part, and here is Noah's faith:

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

The example here is clear, Noah was saved by grace, through faith. Thats how the Hebrews understood it, had this happened in 2017 McDriveThrough christianity we would say we're not gonna build no boat, thats works and salvation is not of works, we're just gonna believe. But in reality, not building the boat exhibits LACK OF FAITH!
Read the entire chapter, its filled with similar examples. Another example:

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

God's grace is being shown above, then by faith people who look at it, shall live. Thats how it happened to Israelites, but had this happened in 2017 McDriveThrough christianity, we would refuse to look at it because we're saved by grace and if we look at it, its works and we're not saved by works. Yet again in this example not looking at the serpent exhibits LACK OF FAITH!
IMO,faith as far as from a man's point would be. To agree with without seeing physical evidence or proof.
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
Is faith without works,dead to GOD?answer=no
Is faith without works,dead to man?answer=yes
true answer to both is yes.

i dont know anyone who is truly saved whos life didnt change. u expect me to believe that the Holy Ghost wont change someones life at all? i dont believe it. all the saved i know are changed.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,538
3,775
113
I think that is why it is important that we all work on our own personal relationship and know him for ourselves. If we have faith in God he is faithful and I don't think he will let us be deceived. So we have to trust in Jesus and seek him, because after all he is the author and finisher or our faith.
The churches of Galatia were deceived by false preachers.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,538
3,775
113
John146.

You have asked a great question and I am glad you have asked it.

I have to be honest I have been so frightened of falling foul of that question.

I spent many years and turmoil of not sharing what I feel to be correct.
I spent many many years of researching scripture and both sides of the equation concerning understanding of scripture.

I backed off from discipleship.

One day I was pulled aside by my pastor and he asked me to lead a ministry of discipleship, for new believers and those seeking Jesus.

I said no to start with and explained why. And the reason why is exactly your question “What if the new beliver gets under false preaching”

I was so frightened of standing before God and hearing him say “You false preacher you led a brother astray”

My pastor said to me “There is one thing that is apparent, and it’s apparent becuase so many people have said to me that you are walking with them and loving them (to be honest I had to scratch my head and think who) you are already preaching in a sense. What is apparent is that you are preaching Jesus and encouraging people to seek Jesus.

That is what God will look at.

God will look at our hearts when we disciple people.

If a new believe has no discipleship to grow God will look at their heart.
Totally agree, but that new believer may not have works to follow. That's why I am hesitant about claiming works will always follow salvation.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
What if the new believer gets under false preaching? What if the new believer has no discipleship to grow?

Btw, I know a lot of lost people who genuinely care and love others.
how do you know It is genuine?

John 15

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Jesus Said a branch can not bear fruit of Itself fruit of Holy Spirit is love (agape), It mean It is impossible for non believer to produce real love (Love in God quality standart)
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
true answer to both is yes.

i dont know anyone who is truly saved whos life didnt change. u expect me to believe that the Holy Ghost wont change someones life at all? i dont believe it. all the saved i know are changed.
Exactly!!! (You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Snoozy again.)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
true answer to both is yes.

i dont know anyone who is truly saved whos life didnt change. u expect me to believe that the Holy Ghost wont change someones life at all? i dont believe it. all the saved i know are changed.
Amen, the Bible says if a person is saved, their life WILL change

nothing in scripture says a true believer will not change.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
The churches of Galatia were deceived by false preachers.
Yes, I know people can be deceived by other people (false preachers, false prophets, false teachers... etc), but what I am saying is that we are not supposed to solely lean on other people for preaching and teaching . We are to look unto God. God leads us and guides us. If we seek God and have a personal relationship with him then he teaches us, leads us, and guides us.

God looks on the heart of all men and we are only held accountable by what we know. I think we grow in knowledge through having a personal relationship with the Lord by reading and studying his word, praying, and walking with him daily. And yes we can learn from others but we shouldn't totally depend on anyone else for the truth but God because all men can make mistakes.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, I know people can be deceived by other people (false preachers, false prophets, false teachers... etc), but what I am saying is that we are not supposed to solely lean on other people for preaching and teaching . We are to look unto God. God leads us and guides us. If we seek God and have a personal relationship with him then he teaches us, leads us, and guides us.

God looks on the heart of all men and we are only held accountable by what we know. I think we grow in knowledge through having a personal relationship with the Lord by reading and studying his word, praying, and walking with him daily. And yes we can learn from others but we shouldn't totally depend on anyone else for the truth but God because all men can make mistakes.
amen, the Bible tells us to test each spirit.

Blindly following people is a bad thing, if they are wrong you follow them