Not By Works

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PHart

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See? More words in my mouth and more assuming on your part. Surely if a believer made wine, drank it, you'd attack them as lost, or, were saved then lost, not as holy as you, &c. How you turn that post of mine into me supporting fornication is, well, you.
So you not supporting fornication is you not being a Pharisee, but if stand against fornication I am a Pharisee?

You were plainly suggesting that since I am against viewing pornography on TV that I would also object to the use of alcohol, but for some reason you excuse yourself from that same judgment. That's horribley hypocritical, you must agree.
 
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PHart

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See? More words in my mouth and more assuming on your part. Surely if a believer made wine, drank it, you'd attack them as lost, or, were saved then lost, not as holy as you, &c. How you turn that post of mine into me supporting fornication is, well, you.
So you not supporting fornication is you not being a Pharisee, but if I stand against fornication I am a Pharisee who would then disagree with alcohol consumption?

You were plainly suggesting that since I am against viewing pornography on TV that I would also object to the use of alcohol, but for some reason you excuse yourself from that same judgment. That's horribley hypocritical, you must agree.

Let's not forget what you said about me:
Jesus went to a wedding once. For some good fun and fellowship. He also made some very good wine while there. If any believer did this today PHart would go PHarisaical on them. :D
 
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Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,God and man in harmony,and is both King as God,and Prince as the man Christ Jesus.

Pro 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
Pro 31:5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

It is not for kings,or princes,to drink alcohol.

Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Pro 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright(fermented).
Pro 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Pro 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
Pro 23:34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
Pro 23:35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

God said when the wine ferments do not drink it.It is called wine before it ferments,and wine after it ferments.For wine can mean grape juice,or fermented grape juice.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit who is the Comforter,and will comfort the saints.

Why would a person need alcohol when the Spirit is the Comforter.Does alcohol comfort a person better than the Spirit,which the answer is no.What is the purpose of wine if the Spirit is the Comforter,and also Jesus said take His yoke upon you,and you will find rest for your souls,so why do we need alcohol.

So what is the purpose of alcohol.There is no purpose for alcohol but people wanting to enjoy a fleshy pleasure,instead of the comfort of the Spirit.

Another fleshy justification to enjoy a fleshy pleasure.

Jesus is King and Prince,and it is not for kings and princes to drink alcohol,and the Spirit is the Comforter,and wine can mean either unfermented grape juice,or fermented grape juice.

The Pharisees calling Jesus a winebibber does not mean that they are correct,and it applies to Him,like when they accused Him of other things but they were not correct,and it did not apply to Him.

Pro 30:8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
Pro 30:9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

They also accused Jesus of being a glutton,but that is not true either,for a person is to eat food convenient for them,and not be a glutton,for that would be lust of something we do not need to survive,so surely Jesus would not actually be a glutton.

If a person says the Pharisees accused Jesus of being a winebibber so it must be true,but they accused Him also of being a glutton,which we know that Jesus would not be a glutton.

Can you picture Jesus gorging himself on food until He is full,and feeling sickly,and do you think He would do that,but He was accused of it,but it is not true,for the Pharisees accused Him on many things,but that does not mean it is true because they said it.

The truth is Jesus was hanging around sinners,so the Pharisees labeled Him the same as the sinners,who liked alcohol,and the over consumption of food,but that does not mean in actuality that it applies to Him,for He came to save that which is lost,so He associated with them to reach them with the truth,not that He was engaging in their behavior.

Jesus would not engage of such things seeing He is King of kings,and the Prince of peace,and was conceived of the Spirit who is the Comforter of the man Christ Jesus.

So what is the purpose of alcohol to a saint with the Spirit.

Also alcohol is a temptation for it might lead to more,for how many stopped at only a few drinks,but wanted to keep drinking after they consumed a little,and God does not tempt any person,so why would He allow them to drink a little alcohol,and then say do not get drunk,when it would be a temptation upon them to drink more than a few drinks.

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The Pharisees were not correct in accusing Jesus of this.This is not true because the Pharisees said it.

Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

Mat 22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.

Mar 2:18 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?

Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

Mar 3:6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

Mar 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Mar 8:11 And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him.

Mar 12:13 And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.

Luk 6:7 And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.

Luk 11:53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:
Luk 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

The Pharisees and scribes were accusing Jesus a lot of things,but that does not mean they were correct,and it applies to Jesus,because they said it.

People in the position of the Pharisees that are against someone that is against them will say just about anything to try to find fault with them,and tempt them to say something wrong,and accuse them of things,even if they do not have proof.

People will make things up,and bend the truth,to go against those who they want to put down,and make them out to be false,which even some people that claim Christ do that.

So what is the purpose of alcohol when we can have the Spirit as our Comforter,and the saints are to be spiritual by the Spirit,so where does alcohol,a fleshy pleasure fit in,and what is the benefit,and can alcohol override the comfort of the Holy Spirit,in which we will find rest for our souls.

It is like someone being offered a porterhouse steak cooked to perfection,with the creamiest mashed potatoes that melt in your mouth,and rolls with butter dripping off of them that makes the mouth water,and vegetables that are savory,and provides the vitamins the body needs,with fruit on the side,and meal to provide all the proper nutrition that the body needs,all perpared by the greatest cook ever to walk the face of the planet with the right spices,and herbs.

And then turn it down and say,no to it,but I will go cut some grass off of my lawn,and cook it for dinner tonight.

But some will still argue because they like that fleshy pleasure of alcohol wanting to justify it.

Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright(fermented).

If this is said in the Old Testament how much more is it not tolerated in the New Testament when a person can have the Spirit.
 
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PHart

Guest
Tell me. I want to know. What do you really do for entertainment?

I also want the answer to how to have the joy of God. I am guessing the answer you give is different from mine.
My interests are finger picking guitar playing, weight lifting, and posting on Christians forums, though I have not been very active in those lately. And Christian forums are becoming a big drag these last few years.

But to experience the joy of the Lord I seek to walk in the fruit of the Spirit in obedience to him. His manifest joy is contingent on us obeying Him. You can not have the joy of the Spirit if you do not walk in the Spirit. Few in the church know this. Few find and walk in the narrow way of life. I blame the leadership who does know about this themselves for not teaching it to the church.

"10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full." (John 15:10-11 NASB)

Now what is your answer that you guess is different than mine. I'm curious.
 
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Magenta thinks it's okay. So do others in the thread I linked to.
I do not answer for Magenta and some how I believe you have probably twisted something she has said or misunderstood her....why call her by name and mouth her behind her back and accuse her of such....the devil is the accuser of the brethren (of sin) so now you have opened a whole new can-o-worms......
 
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PHart

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I do not answer for Magenta and some how I believe you have probably twisted something she has said or misunderstood her....why call her by name and mouth her behind her back and accuse her of such....the devil is the accuser of the brethren (of sin) so now you have opened a whole new can-o-worms......
I didn't. Her posts are in full public view.
 
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Well...it seems obvious that a new can-o-worms has been opened....so..let us just get this straight...

Jesus made alcoholic wine
Jesus stated that he came eating and drinking as opposed to John the Baptist who was straight laced
Jesus drank wine
Paul told Timothy to drink wine
Proverbs speaks to wine and strong drink
It is not those things that enter into a mans mouth that defiles a man
Moderation, not getting drunk and not causing a weaker brother to stumble
There is nothing wrong with a glass of wine
END OF STORY
 
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PHart

Guest
Sure, what's wrong with that? It's how you judge others.
Why this effort to find fault in me?
Jesus went to a wedding once. For some good fun and fellowship. He also made some very good wine while there. If any believer did this today PHart would go PHarisaical on them. :D
Just explain why you say I would go 'PHarisaical' on someone who would enjoy some very good wine? Why are you attacking me in this matter about alcohol and somehow relating it to this matter of viewing pornography? Why are you and dcon so intent in finding fault in me? That is what unbelievers try to do when you speak to them about the things of God.
 
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PHart

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You really need to stop attacking her while she's not here to defend herself. Man up and end the talking bad about a woman who is not here.
Here, you can read what she said for yourself: http://christianchat.com/christian-...v-shows-right-now-not-poll-2.html#post3341361

And don't forget that dcon said this:
Anyone worth their salt and having a BASE understanding of the bible would say that believers should abstain from sexual immorality and or viewing it on any media outlet....so what is your point......I am fairly confident that Not I or EG or Preacher or Stones or any other regular poster in this thread would say it is OK.....regardless of any and all links you may post and or any opinion to the contrary.....
 
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End the pathetic gossip and man up. You have a problem with a woman then tell her not everyone else while she's not here.
Let love cover a multitude of sin <---a concept completely foreign to workers for, sinless perfectionists and all who keep themselves saved....

and I just read her statement and she in no way shape or form states it is acceptable to watch porn or sex on T.V.

Man....what a deceptive person for sure....
 
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I agree with you. What she said in justification of watching filth by referring to the Bible and it's filth (or is she saying it was scripted?), was not very Godly.

However I might agree somewhat about what is in the Bible, as I've been studying the OT. To be honest, I had enough of it really.

I've learnt nothing from these archaic texts written in a time when man was brutal and lawless, and happened to believe in a God that was so not like the God I have come to believe in.

But I can see why men USE the OT for justification of how they are, including on this thread. To believe in an OT God is pretty dangerous I think.

Or isn't it? Maybe I'm just not getting something here. I've heard people say here God is Good, and does things like send evil spirits to torment people, or give tumours/cancer to children of the enemy, because he is a Good God.

I really cannot fathom that. It sounds to me like the storywriters were giving their own subjective carnal view of God. And it is those things which are so dangerous if people see that and say, so that is God. Yes God, go wipe my enemies out, give them cancer, send your evil spirits.

It's just confusing to me really. It's not the God I've got to know over the years.


Here, you can read what she said for yourself: http://christianchat.com/christian-...v-shows-right-now-not-poll-2.html#post3341361

And don't forget that dcon said this:
 
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PHart

Guest
Let love cover a multitude of sin <---a concept completely foreign to workers for, sinless perfectionists and all who keep themselves saved....

and I just read her statement and she in no way shape or form states it is acceptable to watch porn or sex on T.V.

Man....what a deceptive person for sure....
All anybody has to do is read the thread I linked to and they will see for themselves.

And let's remember this only came up because of this:
Who is condoning sin, Please share.. Name the person, and show the post where people are condoning sin.
Can you answer my question, Who in this thread is condoning sin,
 
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Let love cover a multitude of sin <---a concept completely foreign to workers for, sinless perfectionists and all who keep themselves saved....

and I just read her statement and she in no way shape or form states it is acceptable to watch porn or sex on T.V.

Man....what a deceptive person for sure....
I read it as well. Nothing close to his accusatory diatribe.
 
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PHart

Guest
I agree with you. What she said in justification of watching filth by referring to the Bible and it's filth (or is she saying it was scripted?), was not very Godly.
I'm with you. I don't see how her response was somehow a godly one. But we'll just let her own posts speak for her.


However I might agree somewhat about what is in the Bible, as I've been studying the OT. To be honest, I had enough of it really.

I've learnt nothing from these archaic texts written in a time when man was brutal and lawless, and happened to believe in a God that was so not like the God I have come to believe in.

But I can see why men USE the OT for justification of how they are, including on this thread. To believe in an OT God is pretty dangerous I think.

Or isn't it? Maybe I'm just not getting something here. I've heard people say here God is Good, and does things like send evil spirits to torment people, or give tumours/cancer to children of the enemy, because he is a Good God.

I really cannot fathom that. It sounds to me like the storywriters were giving their own subjective carnal view of God. And it is those things which are so dangerous if people see that and say, so that is God. Yes God, go wipe my enemies out, give them cancer, send your evil spirits.

It's just confusing to me really. It's not the God I've got to know over the years.
The point of all that is we humans are worthy of God's wrath. He is Just in passing Judgment on the human race. It's all to point us to the salvation he offers so we can avoid the just penalty for our sinful ways. It's important to know that we are all worthy of the punishment of God, and what that punishment is exactly.
 
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All anybody has to do is read the thread I linked to and they will see for themselves.

And let's remember this only came up because of this:
I think you see what you want to see to justify your self serving, self saving, hypocritical false gospel....I have you on ignore and have for the most part have quit reading your drivel....I thought I would read a few of your posts....and after tonight and seeing you twist the words of people, change the words of people, falsely accuse people, attack the character of a woman not here to defend herself, twist scripture, reject scripture and show a total lack of biblical love through the whole process have decided that your posts are not worth the anger...you have serious issues man and need to get right.....I would say good day, but to be honest it is not worth it..........tragic!!!
 
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PHart

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