Verse for "once saved always saved"?

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Despite years of Bible study and talking to many people, I have not yet had anyone show me a verse that clearly says "once saved, always saved?" Is there such a verse in the Bible, or is the doctrine of eternal security a conclusion from study of Scriptural themes and principles?
[FONT=&quot]22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.[/FONT]
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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So we should scratch Romans 8:16 and 1 John 5:13 out of our Bible? The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we ARE children of God and those who TRULY believe in the name of the Son of God may KNOW they have eternal life.
You are seriously misusing the intent of these verses.

Romans 8:16 "The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God's children.

The pronouns "we" and "our" are not addressing individuals but groups. No one can prove which group other then Christians that Paul had in mind. He was writing this letter to the church in Rome, that does not mean Paul was claiming every person who claimed to be a member of the church was promised unquestionable assurance but only to those it applied to. No one can prove, whether Baptist, Quaker, Pentecostal, Catholic or Mormon that the "we" and "our" in Romans 8:16 applies to them as a denomination or as a individual.

Your claims of unquestionable assurance holds no more weight then any other person.

The same applies to 1 John 5:13.

1st John 5:13 "I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

No one can "know" if they are part of the "who believe" that John is speaking of. Whatever "who believe" entails is up for debate but I doubt it is simple mental assent.

People do not have unquestionable assurance, they have claims of unquestionable assurance. They may very well have their names in the Book of Life or on the other hand they may be quite mistaken. Hence the existence of honest but false claims of unquestionable assurance.
 
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DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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Yes, Jesus has "other sheep" which are not of this fold, outside of Israel, in other words, Gentiles (John 10:16).

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for/unto the day of redemption.

The seal is permanent, yet certain people prefer to remain on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security and they want others to join them. Misery loves company! :eek:

The three men on the roller coaster look more like they just found out their unquestionable assurance was not so unquestionable after all.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
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This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope;(1) but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation,(2) the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made,(3) the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God(4) which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.(5)

(1) Heb 6:11,19;
(2) Heb 6:17,18.
(3) 2Pe 1:4,5,10,11; 1Jn 2:3; 1Jn 3:14; 2Co 1:12.
(4) Ro 8:15,16.
(5) Eph 1:13,14; Eph 4:30; 2Co 1:21,22.


This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties, before he be partaker of it(1) yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto.(2) And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure;(3) that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience,(4) the proper fruits of this assurance: so far is it from inclining men to looseness.(5)

(1) 1Jn 5:13; Isa 1:10; Mk 9:24; Ps 88; Ps 77:1-12.
(2) 1Co 2:12; 1Jn 4:13; Heb 7:11,12; Eph 3:17,18,19.
(3) 2Pe 1:10.
(4) Ro 5:1,2,5; Ro 14:17; Ro 15:13; Eph 1:3,4; Ps 4:6,7; Ps 119:32.
(5) 1Jn 2:1,2; Ro 6:1; Tit 2:11,12,14; 2Co 7:1; Ro 8:1,12; 1Jn 3:2,3; Ps 130:4; 1Jn 1:6,7.



True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it; by falling into some special sin, which woundeth the conscience and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation; by God's withdrawing the light of His countenance, and suffering even such as fear Him to walk in darkness, and to have no light(1) yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived;(2) and by the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair.(3)

(1) SS 5:2,3,6; Ps 51:8,12,14; Eph 4:30,31; Ps 77:1-10; Mt 26:69-72; Ps 31:22; Ps 88; Isa 1:10.
(2) 1Jn 3:9; Lk 22:32; Job 13:15; Ps 73:15; Ps 51:8,12; Isa 1:10.
(3) Mic 7:7,8,9; Jer 32:40; Isa 54:7-10; Ps 22:1; Ps 88.



WCF Ch18 Section 2,3,4

 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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You are seriously misusing the intent of these verses.

Romans 8:16 "The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God's children.

The pronouns "we" and "our" are not addressing individuals but groups. No one can prove which group other then Christians that Paul had in mind. He was writing this letter to the church in Rome, that does not mean Paul was claiming every person who claimed to be a member of the church was promised unquestionable assurance but only to those it applied to. No one can prove, whether Baptist, Quaker, Pentecostal, Catholic or Mormon that the "we" and "our" in Romans 8:16 applies to them as a denomination or as a individual.

Your claims of unquestionable assurance holds no more weight then any other person.

The same applies to 1 John 5:13.

1st John 5:13 "I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

No one can "know" if they are part of the "who believe" that John is speaking of. Whatever "who believe" entails is up for debate but I doubt it is simple mental assent.

People do not have unquestionable assurance, they have claims of unquestionable assurance. They may very well have their names in the Book of Life or on the other hand they may be quite mistaken. Hence the existence of honest but false claims of unquestionable assurance.
That's funny, Jesus offered unquestionable assurance. And so did Paul.

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3.23-25).

'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)

'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).

'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)


[FONT=Georgia, serif]And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]they[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] whose name has not been [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]written in the book of life from the foundation of the world[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (Rev 17.8). [/FONT]
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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The three men on the roller coaster look more like they just found out their unquestionable assurance was not so unquestionable after all.
which one is you?
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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which one is you?
I don't believe in unquestionable assurance, therefore I have nothing to be surprised by its nonexistence. Please keep up.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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0
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 4:4-5, “For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."[/FONT]
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't believe in unquestionable assurance, therefore I have nothing to be surprised by its nonexistence. Please keep up.
You do not believe in the security of Christ? Thats to bad.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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That's funny, Jesus offered unquestionable assurance. And so did Paul.

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3.23-25).

'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)

'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).

'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)


And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world (Rev 17.8).
Did you notice in all the verses you quoted it did not say:

"valiant is saved to the uttermost."
"valiant is perfected for ever."
"valiant is written in the book of life from the foundation of the world."
"he has begun a good work in valiant will perfect it"
"Valiant I will not cast out"
etc

You cannot just point to a pronoun and insert your name.

The question is not does assurance exist for the Christian but how can we know we are that Christian. All Christians are saved but not all who profess Christianity are Christian. Many have a honest but false sense of this assurance of there Christianity. By believing that we possess unquestionable personal salvation we may not notice errors in our thinking.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Originally Posted by valiant
That's funny, Jesus offered unquestionable assurance. And so did Paul.

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3.23-25).

'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)

'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).

'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)


And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world (Rev 17.8).
Did you notice in all the verses you quoted it did not say:

"valiant is saved to the uttermost."
"valiant is perfected for ever."
"valiant is written in the book of life from the foundation of the world."
"he has begun a good work in valiant will perfect it"
"Valiant I will not cast out"
etc

You cannot just point to a pronoun and insert your name.

The question is not does assurance exist for the Christian but how can we know we are that Christian. All Christians are saved but not all who profess Christianity are Christian. Many have a honest but false sense of this assurance of there Christianity. By believing that we possess unquestionable personal salvation we may not notice errors in our thinking.
Jesus made it absolutely clear. John 3.16. I can KNOW if I've truly believed.

of course YOU may be in doubt about yourself. Then get right with God.
 
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DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
Jesus made it absolutely clear. John 3.16. I can KNOW if I've truly believed.

of course YOU may be in doubt about yourself. Then get right with God.
John 3:16 is not speaking of personal unquestionable assurance and you know it. The verse speaks of the promise that those who believe in Him will not perish. There is no promise of personal assurance in the verse, just a general assurance for believers. The verse does not even mention the nature or content of what is to be believed. You are running out of gas.

You may very well be right with God but the verses you are using does not prove it.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
You do not believe in the security of Christ? Thats to bad.
I most certainly do believe in the security of Christ. It is my heart and understanding that I do not trust unquestionably.

Do you have an unquestionable understanding of the scriptures?

Do you trust your heart unquestionably on the nature of your faith?

If your answer is yes to both questions, good luck to you.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,487
13,425
113
58
You are seriously misusing the intent of these verses.

Romans 8:16 "The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God's children.
Does the Spirit Himself bear witness to our spirit that we are God's children or not? I believe what Paul said in Romans 8:16.

The pronouns "we" and "our" are not addressing individuals but groups. No one can prove which group other then Christians that Paul had in mind.
Yes, Christians. Genuine believers.

He was writing this letter to the church in Rome, that does not mean Paul was claiming every person who claimed to be a member of the church was promised unquestionable assurance but only to those it applied to.
There are genuine believers and there are make believers. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. Only genuine believers/Christians have assurance of salvation.

No one can prove, whether Baptist, Quaker, Pentecostal, Catholic or Mormon that the "we" and "our" in Romans 8:16 applies to them as a denomination or as a individual.
Romans 8:16 applies to the body of Christ.

Your claims of unquestionable assurance holds no more weight then any other person.
It holds weight for genuine believers. Those who are not trusting exclusively in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and are instead trusting in the merits of their performance to help save them have no assurance.

The same applies to 1 John 5:13.

1st John 5:13 "I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

No one can "know" if they are part of the "who believe" that John is speaking of. Whatever "who believe" entails is up for debate but I doubt it is simple mental assent.
Prior to my conversion, I did not "know" but after my conversion, when I placed my faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation, I now "know" without a doubt that I am part of those "who believe." Praise God! :) Simple mental assent believes that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened." That is believing with your head. Saving belief trusts in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. That is believing in your heart. See the difference? If you have no absolute assurance of salvation, then you have placed your faith in the WRONG object, NAMELY WORKS, and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE.

People do not have unquestionable assurance, they have claims of unquestionable assurance. They may very well have their names in the Book of Life or on the other hand they may be quite mistaken. Hence the existence of honest but false claims of unquestionable assurance.
Just because you do not have unquestionable assurance does not mean that genuine believers don't. False, misguided claims of assurance do not trump genuine claims of assurance.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
Mailmandan,

All those words and you are still missing the point. No one is denying that genuine believers have unquestionable assurance. The question is can someone know unquestionably that they are that "genuine believer".

This is the question that is being purposely ignored. Your defense is but a straw man, beating it with scriptures about the existence of Christian assurance while not addressing the issue of an assurance that we individually are a part of that assurance.

All the assurance in the world will not save if a person is not part of that assurance.

Example: Here in Baton Rouge, many people were shocked when they were told that their insurance policy was not valid because of nonpayment of premiums. It seems the insurance broker was not submitting the payments properly to the insurance companies. The policy holders felt that they were covered but in the end they were mistaken.

Again, God is not lax in fulfilling His promises but the issue is are we properly under that promise. The Book of Life has not been opened, all we can say is that the names of genuine Christians are written there, not that our individual names are there. Only God knows this.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Mailmandan,

All those words and you are still missing the point. No one is denying that genuine believers have unquestionable assurance. The question is can someone know unquestionably that they are that "genuine believer".
The answer is yes.

What is so difficult about that for you?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,487
13,425
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58
Mailmandan,

All those words and you are still missing the point. No one is denying that genuine believers have unquestionable assurance. The question is can someone know unquestionably that they are that "genuine believer".
So your answer is NO? I know unquestionably that I'm a genuine believer. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. I trust in HIM ALONE for salvation.

This is the question that is being purposely ignored. Your defense is but a straw man, beating it with scriptures about the existence of Christian assurance while not addressing the issue of an assurance that we individually are a part of that assurance.

All the assurance in the world will not save if a person is not part of that assurance.
I have not ignored the question.

Example: Here in Baton Rouge, many people were shocked when they were told that their insurance policy was not valid because of nonpayment of premiums. It seems the insurance broker was not submitting the payments properly to the insurance companies. The policy holders felt that they were covered but in the end they were mistaken.
God is not fallible man. His promises are rock solid.

Again, God is not lax in fulfilling His promises but the issue is are we properly under that promise. The Book of Life has not been opened, all we can say is that the names of genuine Christians are written there, not that our individual names are there. Only God knows this.
Did God leave genuine believers in the dark about their assurance of salvation? So only God knows for sure who is saved? Genuine believers can only cross their fingers and hope they are saved?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I most certainly do believe in the security of Christ. It is my heart and understanding that I do not trust unquestionably.

Do you have an unquestionable understanding of the scriptures?

Do you trust your heart unquestionably on the nature of your faith?

If your answer is yes to both questions, good luck to you.
I have faith in God and what he says. The gospel is not as hard as people make it. One does not have to have perfect understanding of all scripture to understand the gospel

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory, is not hard (all people haves failed to live up to Gods standard we are all guilty)
The penalty of falling short is death is an not a hard concept (since all have sinned, all are dead)
Redemption is not hard to understand, a person who is paying a penalty for a crime they commited is freed from that debt by someone who paid or puyrchased their freedom
Justification is not a hard concept. A legal term which means bone is found innocent of all charges. And has thus been acquitted
Passing from life to death is not hard (I was dead, and I was made alive, or regenerated by God)
Eternal life is not hard (live forever)
Never dieing is not hard (I will never die)

I can go on and on and on (we are not talking about end times stuff, prophesy, or how old the earth is, which are things which are not so set in stone and things which will not determine our salvation)

what makes it hard is when people take these terms and distort them into meaning something they were never meant to be in an attempt to distort the word of God.