GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Mar 28, 2016
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Originally Posted by trofimus

Well, if you want to talk about the Moses Law, you should choose something specific for the Moses Law, for example burning the spiritists or stoning homosexuals or various ceremonials like Sabbath.

If you choose such a general thing as murder or stealing, its nothing about the Law of Moses, its a general knowledge given to Babylonian, Sumerian, Egyptian, Chinese, Russian, American Natives, muslims etc.


Its not the literal law of Moses who is used as a shadow to represent the law giver not seen.any more than it it is a literal law written to the the literal outward Jew. Not all Israel is Israel, or the new name he named his born again children "Christian".

Do you think he misnamed them that do have the born again Spirit of Christ?

Again it has nothing to do with the flesh of men that glory in their own flesh hoping it could profit for something. Even the Son of man Jesus in respect to his own flesh made it clear it could never profit.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not theSpirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Again, verses put into basket like strawberries. One from here, one from there... and let us make a soup.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ok sure, have a wonderful day.[/FONT]
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Again, verses put into basket like strawberries. One from here, one from there... and let us make a soup.
Lets see what the soup is made up of . What will you add to it seeing the fruit of God's word seems to be not your first choice?

Will you add the law of the fathers as the oral tradition of men? Christ called them a brood of vipers.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Hello Brother Jackson,

Quick comments for you in blue.....
if I understand correctly,

you believe weekly sabbath and yearly sabbat have different spelling in Hebrew, but the same meaning and It is rest am I correct?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Lets see what the soup is made up of . What will you add to it seeing the fruit of God's word seems to be not your first choice?

Will you add the law of the fathers as the oral tradition of men? Christ called them a brood of vipers.
I am not responding to your posts not because I want to ignore you, but because I have a problem understanding what you are trying to say...
 
Mar 28, 2016
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ok sure, have a wonderful day.
I would think those who appose the "law of faith" have no idea what it means to begin with. In the end of the matter they clearly make the faith of God without effect.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I am not responding to your posts not because I want to ignore you, but I have a problem understanding what you are trying to say...

Well you were saying the strawberries (God's word) are not all that make up this soup you are addressing. What else needs to be added to it?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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funky u see....... i think its only one gospel. how many gospels are there?????? u see in the book of revelation an angel is preaching the everlasting gospel of the kingdom. is the angel cursed by paul in galatians 1 if kingdom and grace gospel are different u see????? i think its a matter of overstanding that paul and Jesus had the same message simplified u see:

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

it looks like the same message pretty much u see......
What is the everlasting good news in regards to the kingdom? In a simplified form in regards to repentance and faith, it does sound like the same message, yet the content of the gospel of the kingdom, prior to the cross does not have the exact same "content" as the gospel of grace after the cross, as I showed you in Matthew 10:5-7; 16:21-22; Mark 16:14; Luke 18:31-34; 24:19-24, 44-47.

John the Baptist and the 12 disciples were preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel before the cross, yet where in their message did they say that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures and that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures? (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Why do you think Paul said "dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me" for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery if it was not previously a mystery before the cross? Paul also said the "Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel" in Ephesians 3:2-6. Is that what John the Baptist and the 12 disciples were preaching to Israel? No. What do you think the purpose of Peter's vision was in Acts 10:9-16? Revelation progresses from the OT throughout the NT.

This is what I mean by rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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if I understand correctly,

you believe weekly sabbath and yearly sabbat have different spelling in Hebrew, but the same meaning and It is rest am I correct?[/QUOTE

Yes it is in no way a time sensitive word.It simply means rest .
.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Well you were saying the strawberries (God's word) are not all that make up this soup you are addressing. What else needs to be added to it?
No, I was saying that Bible needs to be understood in its proper context of what, when, why and to whom was said.

To take one verse from there, one from here another one from there and try to make it say somebody wants is wrong, similar to picking up random strawberries in a forest and collecting them to a basket (or to make a soup, it was another image, but similar meaning).
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”


Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart." Six days you labour, and shall do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה your Strength. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days יהוה made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.”




Hebrews 4:1-11, "Therefore, since a promise of entering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it. For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed-- However, we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I vowed in My wrath, They will not enter into My rest, although the works were finished from the foundation of the world, For He spoke in a certain place of the Seventh Day, in this way: And YHWH rested the Seventh Day from all His works. And in this place again: If they will enter into My rest. Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Again, He designates a certain day, saying in David: ''Today,'' after so long a time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. If Yahshua (ben Nun) had given them rest he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of YHWH, For he who has entered into His rest (word G#2663) has also ceased from his own works, as YHWH did from His. Therefore, let us be zealous to enter into that rest (word G#2663), so that no one may fall after the same example of unbelief."

appointed times is word #H4150 - Original Word: מוֹעֵד, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: moed, Phonetic Spelling: (mo-ade'), Short Definition: meeting, Word Origin from yaad, Definition - appointed time, place, or meeting


Leviticus 23:2-4, “Speak to the children of Yisra’ĕl, and say to them, ‘The appointed times (#H4150) of יהוה, which you are to proclaim as set-apart (#H6944) gatherings (#H4744), My appointed times (#H4150), are these: Six days work is done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath (#H7676) of rest (#H7677), a set-apart #H6944) gathering (#H4744). You do no work, it is a Sabbath to יהוה in all your dwellings. These are the appointed times (#H4150) of יהוה, set-apart (#H6944) gatherings (#H4744) which you are to proclaim at their appointed times."


 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”


Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart." Six days you labour, and shall do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה your Strength. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days יהוה made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.”




Hebrews 4:1-11, "Therefore, since a promise of entering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it. For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed-- However, we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I vowed in My wrath, They will not enter into My rest, although the works were finished from the foundation of the world, For He spoke in a certain place of the Seventh Day, in this way: And YHWH rested the Seventh Day from all His works. And in this place again: If they will enter into My rest. Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Again, He designates a certain day, saying in David: ''Today,'' after so long a time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. If Yahshua (ben Nun) had given them rest he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of YHWH, For he who has entered into His rest (word G#2663) has also ceased from his own works, as YHWH did from His. Therefore, let us be zealous to enter into that rest (word G#2663), so that no one may fall after the same example of unbelief."

appointed timesis word #H4150 - Original Word: מוֹעֵד, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: moed, Phonetic Spelling: (mo-ade'), Short Definition: meeting, Word Origin from yaad, Definition - appointed time, place, or meeting


Leviticus 23:2-4, “Speak to the children of Yisra’ĕl, and say to them, ‘The appointed times (#H4150) of יהוה, which you are to proclaim as set-apart (#H6944) gatherings (#H4744), My appointed times (#H4150), are these: Six days work is done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath (#H7676) of rest (#H7677), a set-apart #H6944) gathering (#H4744). You do no work, it is a Sabbath to יהוה in all your dwellings. These are the appointed times (#H4150) of יהוה, set-apart (#H6944) gatherings (#H4744) which you are to proclaim at their appointed times."





Nothing has passed from the Law. If you do not keep all of it it is of no use to you to keep any of it. The purpose of the Law is to teach people that they can't please God by their own efforts. If you reject the Law's purpose and try to keep it anyway; that is between you and God. If you reject the Law's purpose and try to put other people under Law; then it becomes my job and the task of every well grounded believer to show that you are either deceived, deceiving, or both.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Why do you think Paul said "dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me" for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery if it was not previously a mystery before the cross?
i see this from dispensationalists alot......... but what paul means when he says i show you a mystery, its something not yet revealed to the people he is writing to u see......

the rightly dividing here is a more uptodate translation:

2 timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
 
Dec 4, 2017
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Again, verses put into basket like strawberries. One from here, one from there... and let us make a soup.
Or rather a table fit for kings to come and eat at.
You never know who might be reading in a board, and so as hezekiah serves the banquet in earnest. Someone might happen by and be given a message from the Lord,.
Ive personally had prayers answered in this way.

I heard hezekiah just fine.
And respectfully understand were he is in his walk with the Lord.

Courtesies given with delicacies from Heaven as ive come to know them to be the nourishment for replenishing our Souls
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Or rather a table fit for kings to come and eat at.
You never know who might be reading in a board, and so as hezekiah serves the banquet in earnest. Someone might happen by and be given a message from the Lord,.
Ive personally had prayers answered in this way.

I heard hezekiah just fine.
And respectfully understand were he is in his walk with the Lord.

Courtesies given with delicacies from Heaven as ive come to know them to be the nourishment for replenishing our Souls
Everything can be misused, Bible included. Heretics quote Bible too. The difference is that they must take it out of the context, of the era, to change whom it was said etc.
 
Dec 4, 2017
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Below is something shared from a friend ive fellowshipped with...

...."the 7th day of no part darkness is. In His mercy He refused to allow any part of that fallen nature to live, thereby ultimately freeing us at the appointed time."
 
Dec 4, 2017
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Everything can be misused, Bible included. Heretics quote Bible too. The difference is that they must take it out of the context, of the era, to change whom it was said etc.
This chatroom is a pleasant place.
O, and i do have experience with "those" also.
In the wilder forums you will find some real nasty pieces of work. And those places are certainly not for the timid.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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This chatroom is a pleasant place.
O, and i do have experience with "those" also.
In the wilder forums you will find some real nasty pieces of work. And those places are certainly not for the timid.
This forum is moderated, this can be the reason why it is still in some boundaries.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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And this is what I have come to truly understand, we frustrate Grace when we try to live by the law.

That is the reality of the spiritual walk, one or the other, not both.

I never think about the law anymore, I am dead to it, I focus on Him who fulfilled the law
Galatians 3:2-3
[FONT=&quot]2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

You are not. You have found the Better Way. But there are many foolish here that would try to convince you to go back to the Old Way that has failed.

Only the Lord Jesus Christ can show us the Truth. Only The Lord Jesus Christ can give us Rest.

Hebrews 4:2-3
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/FONT]
 
Mar 28, 2016
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What is the everlasting good news in regards to the kingdom? In a simplified form in regards to repentance and faith, it does sound like the same message, yet the content of the gospel of the kingdom, prior to the cross does not have the exact same "content" as the gospel of grace after the cross, as I showed you in Matthew 10:5-7; 16:21-22; Mark 16:14; Luke 18:31-34; 24:19-24, 44-47.
I see that a little differently.

When it comes to the grace of Christ in respect to his work of faith, there is no division between this side of the cross and the other.

The context of the verses you offered does not seem to show it, or at least that’s how I hear what I believe God is trying to convey.

God who does work in the believer to both will and do His good pleasure, He is no respecter of persons or time periods. It is men as the things of men that put differences and call it dispensation-ism. God by grace purifies the heart of a Jew in the same way as that of a Gentile. by and through a work of His faith working in us.(imputed righteousness)

They both hear the same word of the gospel that worked in them so that they could believe God and not their own thoughts as imaginations of a fleshly mind . In that way we can hear what the Spirit says to the churches and not what the churches as thing of men say. They would be the private interpretations of men. Every man has an opinion called a heresy like fingerprints one differs from another.. We walk by faith and not after the three avenues of the father of lies.

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1Jo 2:15

Peter spoke of the power of the gospel to quicken ones soul giving us the understanding of him not seen.The faith princple.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the
Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Act 15:8

The faith of Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God.

Some even say the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Christ ) was not given until Pentecost. But the same spirit of faith according as it is written that worked in Abel works in those who have been elected today which is the Holy Spirit.

In the time period of preaching of the gospel beforehand (the cross) as a parable for the time then present God set up signs and wonders in ceremonial laws that pointed to suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that ties the Old Testament to the new as one testament. When Christ said it was finished the veil was rent , the walls came tumbling down

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Why do you think Paul said "dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me" for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery if it was not previously a mystery before the cross? Paul also said the "Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel" in Ephesians 3:2-6? Is that what John the Baptist and the 12 disciples were preaching to Israel? No. What do you think the purpose of Peter's vision was in Acts 10:9-16? Revelation progresses from the OT throughout the NT.
I would offer.If it (the gospel) was preached to Israel it was preached to the whole world. God is no respecter of the clay he forms Christ in.

The cross took away the mystery by making it known as the glory that followed the suffering. The time of reformation had come; it remains until the last day. The shadow of the glory spoken of in 1 Peter 1:11 has disappeared. We look back; they looked ahead by the same spirit of faith. (Christ’s)

We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;2Corinthians 4:13

The mystery of the parable in regard to the use of ceremonial laws is made known as we do receive the end of the faith (Christ in us) or called Emmanuel.

Note....
(purple in parenthesis) my added comments.

Receiving the end of your
faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time(the time of reformation) the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1Pe 1:9-11

The saints on the other side of the cross received the end of their faith, as the salvation of their souls in the same way as us ... by the grace of Christ through the Spirit of Christ which is in us testifying after the suffering of Christ to the same glory. The first resurrection

But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:The Holy Ghost this signifying,
(to show the eternal things not seen by the temporal things seen) that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could notmake him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, “imposed on them until the "time of reformation.”

The time of the reformation is over. As it is written (the reformer) it continues work in us to both will and reform.And even as it has taught you, we shall abide in him.