Hate Islam , love muslims!

Adstar · Dec 6, 2017

There are devout muslims who are very violent and do evil acts in obedience to the teachings of the quran and the accepted hadiths.

There are devout Christians who are very peaceful and loving and do charitable acts in obedience to the teachings of the Gospel and the letters of the apostles..

There are false muslims who who are very peaceful and loving and friendly towards unbelievers in rebellion against the teachings of the quran and the accepted hadiths..

There are false christians who are very violent and do evil acts in rebellion against the teachings of the Gospel and the letters of the apostles..

Islam is not defined by the local muslims that may be living in your area.. Islam is defined by the quran and the Hadiths.. The mistake people make is assessing a religion by the people around the who claim to be adherents of that religion.. The truth about what a religion actually is can be found in the Writings which that religion declare are infallible..

2 Major sects... But also many minor sects outside of those two ( shia and sunni ) ...

Again human performance in adhering to the teachings of a religion does not define that religion.. The teachings of that religion in their Books define their religion.. Yes many Christians fail to live up to the teachings of the Gospel.. Many of them are slow to love and slow to do good deeds .. But that is a different issue to what the Gospel actually proclaims.. Same goes with islam.. There may be many nice caring and loving people who declare themselves to be muslims.. But that is a different issue to what the quran actually teaches.. Muslims who are nice and caring towards non-muslims are in rebellion against the teachings of the quran..

In the eternal point of view it does not matter if a person is on a high horse when he says water is wet or weather he has his head bowed kneeling in a gutter.. If they are proclaiming the truth that water is wet then they are both equally correct and people contending with them declaring that water is dry are wrong... If ones beliefs are wrong then we need someone to debunk what we believe.. High horse messenger or a messenger from the gutter, If they are correct then they are needed..

Then i encourage you to look into it and find out what it declares.. So that you can come to hate it, because it is evil.. It is anti-christ..

Adstar · Dec 6, 2017

IamWhoIam said:

Do Jehovah witnesses call themselves Christians? Does that make them Christians? Why do you find it odd that there are people who call themselves muslims who are not muslims?

kaylagrl · Dec 7, 2017

mj007 said:

Ummm is someone is being a snake,dishonest with their motives and intentions they would't be a true Christian now would they? That would directly against what the Bible teaches.

mj007 said:

You do realize the Bible tells you not to speak against your Christian brother.

mj007 said:

Hahahahahah! Whoo! Thats just too funny. Muslims have a lot more love for each other than Christians,Im sorry,I can't even....Surely you're not that naive. I mean,do you know anything about Islam,at all?! Obviously not.

mj007 said:

The Muslims you meet are Amercanized. Go live in a Muslim majority country,preferably an Islamic state and see how tolerant and brotherly they are there.

mj007 said:

I'll save you the time,its a religion from the pit of hell. Its anti-Christ. Its people are in bondage and they need the truth,which is what you're suppose to be giving them. I'm hoping you do.But it seems you have a lot of the hypocrisy you like to blame others for. I hardly hear you say a kind word about Christians.Im wondering where you stand. Or do you even know where you stand?

AziziLoveChrist · Dec 7, 2017

maxwel said:

From Mecca to Christ is LLC , its for sale and the money generate is going to send Christian missionaries to Mecca the birth place of islam .

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

AziziLoveChrist said:

Hate is against the sin, so is a moniker the sin? And I wonder if what a child is taught ever leaves them, so I'm not certain I'd be able to tell someone I hate their religion. It obviously had a value, in their life, positive or negative. It is in some ways bound to their character, requires choices to be made that may or may not align with Him.

On my first day of work, in Las Vegas, I took a bus. On a couple of breaks, some people mingled outside. I mentioned the bus's unreliability, geeked out about servers and networking, and listened to some stories about getting promoted to that work. In that course, a Good Muslim didn't see me beat up and robbed, on the street, but he offered a ride home to avoid the heat, which I accepted. It was so hot, everyone outside on break was crazy! (I thought to myself.) He was simply friendly. He needed to stop at a an international mart, talked about law in the Middle East, and was quite talkative, very friendly.

Prices are steep for thieves, in some places, I hear! He said nobody usually stole, however. I wouldn't doubt that, though, it's beyond extreme. Man hides behind the State, with man's commonly broken law, to leverage power. That kind of need for control has always been lacking in actual control, no matter how hard it's applied.

Even religion is used to that end. Anyways, he was generally cool. Not once did I feel the need to tell him, "I like you, but your religion stinks." And in fact, he was blameless, even generous. To me, love a person as yourself is to respect their life. If in that life, their religion is part of vows they've taken, then it's before Him. And then it's also quite a working contradiction to say to that person, "I'm loving you, but rejecting all things you ever knew, with Him." Determining a person's position as an enemy or proponent of God isn't found by labeling their teachings as seemingly inherently satanic, or adversarial. It's by finding value in them, from A-Z, in planting and in the harvest.

God impels a believer to know Him. If a person can be found in walk, lock, and step with Him, I don't believe they will find a moniker of any value, negative or positive. Faith in Him equalizes, with n0 tilt.

Blessed are those whose ways are blameless,
****** ** ****** ** ****** **who walk according to the law of the Lord.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+119&version=NIV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+1:19-27&version=NIV

Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-7IHOXkiV8

maxwel · Dec 11, 2017

tekton said:

This aphorism has nothing to do with telling someone you hate their religion; to say that is to completely misunderstand the proposition.

Discernment vs Action

DISCERNMENT and the ACTION we take based on that discernment are two different things.

When we say "love the sinner, but hate the sin", we are talking about DISCERNMENT ONLY.
This aphorism only gives us a "rule of thumb" for discernment - that we should differentiate between the sin and the sinner.
But this statement is not dealing AT ALL with any particular ACTIONS based on the discernment.

You can "love the sinner but hate the sin" and still take any variety of different courses of action based upon this bit of discernment.

The phrase "Hate Islam but love Muslims" is obviously derived from the earlier adage about "loving the sinner but hating the sin", and it also has the SAME PURPOSE. It has the purpose of being a rule of thumb for DISCERNMENT, not a rule of thumb for any particular ACTIONS based upon that discernment.

This rule of thumb says NOTHING about what course of action to take AFTER using this rule of discernment.

This rule of thumb does NOT say to DO or SAY anything unkind.
It does NOT SAY TO DO ANYTHING AT ALL... because it isn't a rule for action, it is only a rule for discernment.

Conclusion:

So, to say this phrase "hate Islam but love Muslims" prescribes ANY particular actions, in word or deed, toward anyone, is to completely misunderstand the aphorism.
To say this means to go around being mean to polite Muslims is simply a straw man argument... it is to simply FABRICATE a lot of things the aphorism neither says nor means.

It is also to completely misunderstand the biblical concept of differentiating between DISCERNMENT and ACTION.
This is a Biblical differentiation.
It's something we need to learn.

We are to discern a situation biblically, and THEN decide on some proper course of action.
Both of these are SEPARATE PROCESSES, and both of these processes rely on different biblical principles.

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

Reject it, yes.

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

https://www.etymonline.com/word/Muslim | https://www.etymonline.com/word/hate | https://www.etymonline.com/word/love | https://www.etymonline.com/word/Islam

| https://www.etymonline.com/word/reject | https://www.etymonline.com/word/hate | https://www.etymonline.com/word/fear | https://www.etymonline.com/word/belie s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtOvBOTyX00

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v_4O44sfjM

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+12&version=NIV

Magenta · Dec 11, 2017

[video=youtube;qv1cWoa-N_U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv1cWoa-N_U&t=249s[/video]

The greatest threat to terrorist groups like the Islamic State, The Taliban, Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab, and Al-Qaeda, is not a UN resolution or the US Military. The greatest threat to terrorists is an informed population, because only an informed population can undermine the ideology that gives rise to jihad.

With this in mind, let's go through 10 facts about the Qur'an, history's
most effective manual for violently subjugating nations and cultures.

Fact number 1: The word Qur'an means recitation. The Qur'an is something that is supposed to be recited from memory. Muhammad and his companions weren't big on reading, and in Muhammad's time, portions of the Qur'an were only written down as memory aids. It wasn't until later that some of his followers came up with the idea of putting it all together into book form.

So, why would Muslims want to recite the Qur'an? Because:

Fact number 2: Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of Allah. The angel Gabriel, as the story goes, delivered verses to Mohammed, and Mohammad passed these verses on to his followers. But as far as the Qur'an is concerned, Gabriel and Muhammad were mailmen. It's the word of Allah not the words of Gabriel or Muhammad. Why do Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of Allah? Because:

Fact number 3: Muhammad said so.

The Qur'an was supposedly revealed to one man, Muhammad. Unlike the Bible, which contains numerous shorter works written by around 40 different authors, the Qur'an stands or falls with the lone testimony of Mohammed, a guy who's first impression of his revelations was that they were demonic, a guy who repeatedly tried to kill himself, a guy who believed he was the victim of magic spells that give him delusional thoughts and false beliefs. A guy who delivered versus to his followers and later blamed the devil for tricking him. A guy who had sex with a nine year old girl, had nine wives at one time, even though the Qur'an says Muslims can only have four, married the divorced wife of his own adopted son after causing the divorce; told his followers that it is okay to beat their wives into submission, and so on.

So... What evidence did Muhammad offer to show that his revelations were from Allah?

Fact number four: Muhammad's main argument for the inspiration of the Qur'an, was what we'll call the argument from literary excellence, one of the silliest arguments ever offered by anyone for anything. My poetry is better than your poetry,so my poetry must be the inspired word of Allah. The idea is that no one can produce something as wonderful as or more wonderful than the Qur'an.

Now, there are all kinds of things we could do to make the Qur'an better than it is. We could take out the verses about slaughtering unbelievers or about raping female captives or about having sex with pre-pubescent girls But one simple way to improve the Qur'an would be to put it in chronological order because:

Fact number 5: The Qur'an is not arranged chronologically. Apart from the first chapter, which is a short prayer, the rest of the Qur'an is basically arranged from the longest chapters to the shortest chapters. But the longer chapters were generally much later than the shorter chapters, so the Qur'an is thoroughly disorganized, making it very difficult to read. You might not care about the order, but it's actually extremely important, because"

Fact number 6: Some parts of the Qur'an abrogate or cancel other parts of the Qur'an. Later revelations typically abrogate earlier revelations, but since the Qur'an isn't arranged chronologically, we don't know which verses are cancelled, and which versus still apply, without massive collections of commentaries to help sift through this mess.

You will recall that the main argument for its divine origin is that it is so incredibly well-written, that it must be from God. Yes so wonderfully written that nobody can understand what they're supposed to do without consulting a team of scholars. This is my modern take on the Qur'an; what did Muhammad's contemporaries think of it?

Fact number seven: Muhammad's contemporaries were convinced that the Qur'an was plagiarized from earlier sources. How do we know what they thought about the Qur'an? We know because the Qur'an repeatedly tells us that Muhammad's contemporaries accused him of stealing his stories from others. How did Muhammad respond to charges of plagiarism? He declared that:

Fact number 8: The Qur'an is a continuation of previous scriptures. The reason so much the Qur'an sounded so familiar to the people of Arabia wasn't that Muhammad was plagiarizing earlier sources, those earlier sources were also the word of Allah. That's why they sounded the same!

Of course Muslims today know that those earlier sources thoroughly contradict the Qur'an, so they are forced to claim that the earlier sources were corrupted. This is extremely odd because:

Fact number 9: The Qur'an was only compiled into a book because much of it was lost. According to Muslim sources, entire chapters of the Qur'an were forgotten. Large passages came up missing, verses vanished. This is in spite of the fact that Allah promised, He promised in chapter 15 Verse 9, to protect the Qur'an from corruption. He couldn't do it, which calls into question the rest of what he said in the Qur'an. Why is this relevant? Because:

Fact number ten: The Qur'an is the highest authority on matters of sharia:

Raping female captives, beating women into submission, chopping off
hands for stealing, grown men marrying little girls. These things come
from this book (the Qur'an), which most certainly is not the word of God.

Learn these facts, my friends, and share them with others.

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

If all facts were known, man wouldn't ride the noise, instead of living below it. Nobody would bother yelling out, "Mission Accomplished," in any variant--before the point of both forgiveness and reconciliation. Scruples and hesitation give good Hope, good Faith, good Love. Give alms, then hate? That's bad faith. It's simple to know that an orphan and widow both need comfort and joy. Not a ploy to toy with their minds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO6OZIY-lYw

Magenta · Dec 11, 2017

Three Qur'an Verses Every Christian Should Know

Islam is often presented as a very simple religion: it is just submission to Allah. But if you dig a little deeper you find out in the Qur'an, Sura 4 verse 65, that submission to Allah requires complete obedience to all of Muhammad's decisions, and that is where Islam gets a lot more complicated, because Mohammed's decisions are spread across thousands of stories in the Hadiths.

Most Christians don't have the time, or the sources, or the desire, to go through all this material, and figure out what Islam teaches. No problem. That's what we're here for, and we are happy to serve that role in the body of Christ.

But we should all keep in mind that there are more than one 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, and that Islam places a strong emphasis on preaching, and winning converts. Chances are, we are we are not going to be there when your Muslim friends preach Islam to you, or when your children go off to college, and hear about how wonderful Islam is, not only from their Muslim friends, but also from their professors.

It seems then that Christians in general need to know something about Islam. Rather than throw everything at you at once, I'm going to give you three simple verses. Now I would love to see Christians around the world learn maybe a dozen or so Qur'an verses that I think are very important. But if I were to narrow down the list to just three verses, these would be the three.

First: Surah 4 verse 157 (by the way those are basically chapters) Chapter 4 verse 157. This verse gives you the Islamic View of Jesus' crucifixion. Let's read it.

They said in boast (they here are the Jews) we killed Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of assurity they killed him not.

Notice that Jesus was not killed, he wasn't even crucified. Islam denies that the crucifixion of Jesus ever took place. But if Jesus was never crucified, why do people believe that He died on the cross?

The Islamic view is that Allah miraculously disguised someone to make him look like Jesus, and it was this other person who was crucified, not Jesus. The reason you believe that Jesus died, according to Islam, is that Allah did an excellent job tricking everyone.

It is interesting to ponder the theological depths false prophets
will go to to in order to deny what Jesus did for us.

Second: Sura 5 verse 47

Muslims often claim that the Bible has been corrupted, but there are plenty of verses in the Qur'an which show that if the Bible has been corrupted, Allah certainly doesn't know anything about it.

5:47 is one of these verses. In 5:47 Allah commands Christians to judge by the gospel. He says, let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by the light of what Allah hath revealed, they are no better than those who rebel.

Allah commands us to judge by the gospel, and he says that we are rebels if we don't. Clearly we can only judge by the gospel if we actually have the gospel.

So the Qur'an assumes that we have reliable Scriptures. Of course if we obey Allah and we judge by the gospel, we have to judge that Islam is false, because Islam contradicts the gospel. The gospel says that Jesus died on the cross; the Qur'an Sura 4 verse 157 says that he didn't. The Qur'an tells us to judge by the gospel. Therefore, if we listen to the Qur'an, we have to reject the Qur'an.

Third: Sura 9 verse 29. If you have never understood why Christians and other religious minorities are so horribly mistreated in places like Iraq, and Egypt, and Pakistan, the reason for the abuse is found in the Qur'an. Allah commands Muslims, once they are in the majority, to violently subjugate Christians and Jews.

Allah says in 9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day (notice it says, fight those who do not believe, not fight in self-defense. This is a command to fight people on their beliefs) nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth from among the people of the book (people of the book are Jews and Christians) until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Muslims are commanded to fight us until we pay tribute to them and feel ourselves subdued. We have to acknowledge our inferiority, and accept our status as second-class citizens who don't have the same rights as Muslims. This command has probably led to more oppression than any other command in history.

[video=youtube;n5Nu6EabQD8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Nu6EabQD8[/video]

If you watch my videos you might already be familiar with these three verses. I would encourage you to pass this video onto your friends. Islam's most powerful asset in the West, with the possible exception of political correctness, is ignorance. If people don't know anything about Islam, then Muslim preachers, along with groups like CAIR and ISNA, can pretty much say whatever they want to say about Islam, and nobody will know any better. But if certain facts about Islam become common knowledge, our discussions with our Muslim friends will be much more productive.

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9&version=NLT

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

https://youtu.be/ru0K8uYEZWw

Magenta · Dec 11, 2017

Christians sometimes wonder, why should we learn about Islam?
There are lots of reasons why people in general, but especially
Christians, should be learning about Islam. Let's consider five of them.

First, numbers. Islam is the second largest religion in history after Christianity. There are about one point six billion Muslims in the world (1,600,000,000). That's over a fifth of the world's population. There are currently more than twelve hundred (1,200) mosques in the United States, and more than six thousand (6,000) in Europe, and according to many sources, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. So Islam is big, and it is getting bigger. When that many people believe something, it is a good idea to learn what they believe.

Second, Christians can't communicate the gospel clearly to Muslims without understanding what Muslims believe, because the Qur'an distorts the meaning of what Christians claim. For instance, Christians claim that Jesus is the Son of God, but when we say Jesus is the Son of God, Muslims think we are claiming that God had sex with a woman, and produced Jesus as an offspring. They believe this because the Qur'an says, how can Allah have a son, when he has no wife? Sura 6:101

Now, when Christians call Jesus the Son of God, we're not talking about God having sex and producing an offspring. No Christian has ever meant that, but that's what Muslims think we mean, because the Qur'an says that's what it means to call someone the Son of God.

There's a similar problem when it comes to the doctrine of the Trinity. According to the Qur'an sura 5:116, Christians believe in a trinity made up of God, Jesus, and Mary. Here again, no Christian has ever believed this, but there are Muslims who think we believe in a trinity made up of God, Jesus and Mary, because of how the Qur'an distorts Christian doctrines.

So if we don't know what Muslims believe, we won't understand about
how they are misinterpreting what we say when we preach the gospel.

Third, Muslims are trained to challenge the core doctrines of Christianity. Jesus taught His followers lots of things, but when they preached the gospel in the book of Acts, they preached that Jesus is the Divine Son of God, Who died on the cross for sins, and rose from the dead. Deity, death, and resurrection. These are the three core teachings of the Christian gospel. Islam denies all three of them, and so Muslims are taught to challenge Christians on these issues.

Muslims are taught to attack Christianity where it matters most. If Christians do not know about Islam, we don't know how Muslims are going to challenge our beliefs and we are not going to know how to challenge their beliefs.

[video=youtube;NDsMn15jmRU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDsMn15jmRU[/video]

Fourth, many Muslims are so confident that Islam is true, because they have been told all their lives that it is indisputably true, that they can't seriously consider any alternatives to Islam.

My best friend in college was a Muslim; that's why I started studying Islam. We talked about Christianity for a couple of years, but, he was so confident that Islam was true, he really wasn't taking Christianity seriously. It was only after we began looking at some of the problems with Mohammed and the Qur'an, that he realized maybe what I've been told about Islam all my life isn't true. Maybe I need to think through this more carefully.

He's a Christian now. He's one of the speakers for Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. So giving Muslims some facts about Muhammad is crucial, and we can't give them these facts unless we know what the facts are.

Fifth, Islam thrives in an atmosphere of ignorance

I've met lots of converts to Islam over the years, but I have never met a single person who converted to Islam after carefully studying Islam. When I meet a convert to Islam and I ask ,why did you convert to Islam? It is almost always because the person has being given some false information. The reason so many people fall for this false information is that there is a general atmosphere of ignorance about Islam, which allows Muslim preachers to say pretty much whatever they want, because no one is going to correct them. These preachers are then free to adapt their message to the values of their audience.

In the west we believe in women's rights, so the Muslim preacher says, "You believe in women's rights? Muhammad was a champion of women's rights! He was probably the greatest defender of women who ever lived."

People in the West usually have a high respect for science, so the Muslim preacher says, "The Qur'an is filled with scientific claims that could only verified centuries after Muhammad's death. Science proves that Islam is the truth!"

In an area where no one knows much about Islam, many people believe what they hear from these Muslim preachers, and they convert to Islam. The only way this is going to stop is if we get to a point where we know enough about Islam to refute false claims. When a Muslim preacher says, Muhammad was a champion of women's rights,

hands need to go up to question him about Qur'an verses that refute him.

(Recap) So Islam is already a massive religion and it is growing rapidly. Muslims often don't understand the gospel because they re misinterpreting our claims based on the Qur'an's distortion of our claims.

Muslims have been taught to criticize core Christian doctrines

Many Muslims can't take the gospel seriously until their own beliefs have been challenged

And people are converting to Islam based on false information

All of these are reasons for Christians to learn about Islam.

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

"Muslims have been taught to criticize core Christian doctrines" ... I'd almost encourage them to myself, tearing down the defense of some offenses. Ambition simply countering ambition. <3

Magenta · Dec 11, 2017

tekton said:

Do you like wise "almost" encourage Christians to criticize core Islamic doctrines?

I have heard that "almost" only counts in horseshoes

tekton · Dec 11, 2017

I don't encourage anyone to criticize each other, ultimately, spiritually. Plenty of logs to pull out our own eyes, lately.

"[FONT=&quot]Be dressed for service and keep your lamps burning..."[/FONT]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+12

Hate Islam , love muslims!

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