Do we Believe Jesus and/or Obey Jesus?

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, "I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 23:39, "For I say to you: From this moment you will not see Me, until you say: Blessed is He Who comes in the Name of YHWH!" [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 118:26, "Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! We shall bless you from the House of [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]."[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Nehemiah6]

Wow! Didn't anyone pay attention to what Jesus Himself said at His last supper? What do you suppose Jesus MEANT by "This IS my body?" Something OTHER THAN what He SAID?

It does not strengthen your case by quoting multiple translations. While Jesus was actually alive and in His human body, He presented bread as REPRESENTATIVE (or symbolic) of His body, and that is how it was understood by the apostles and the apostolic churches. When He said that we are to eat His flesh and drink His blood, He was speaking about spiritual things. That those who receive Christ into their souls and spirits partake of Him, and He is *assimilated* into them.

 

[MarcR]

I am not embarrased, in the post you quoted both names were sohown, Yeshua and Yahushua, Yeshua was commonly used after 586 BCE because a pharisee ban on the name YHWH. Bfore that Yahushua was used. Since ther Messiah came in His Father's name I dont think He came in a name that removed the YHWH at the command of the pharisee types... but to each their own.

Also can you quote any ancient manuscript that uses Yeshua? Because there are hebrew versions of NT books that use:

יהושוע
​

You should be embarrassed!

I don't know where you are getting your so called historical linguistics but it is pure invention.

Yohoshua is Joshua meaning God Saves never applied to Jesus.

 

[MarcR]

I am not embarrased, in the post you quoted both names were sohown, Yeshua and Yahushua, Yeshua was commonly used after 586 BCE because a pharisee ban on the name YHWH. Bfore that Yahushua was used. Since ther Messiah came in His Father's name I dont think He came in a name that removed the YHWH at the command of the pharisee types... but to each their own.

Also can you quote any ancient manuscript that uses Yeshua? Because there are hebrew versions of NT books that use:

יהושוע
​

It should be obvious to anyone with even basic Hebrew skills that I am familiar with the Grammar and syntax rules of the Hebrew Language; and you are cutting and pasting snippits from various sources and trying to impress people with your (absent) knowledge.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: <WHY?> for he shall save his people from their sins.

 

[Hizikyah]

You should be embarrassed!

I don't know where you are getting your so called historical linguistics but it is pure invention.

Yohoshua is Joshua meaning God Saves never applied to Jesus.

It should be obvious to anyone with even basic Hebrew skills that I am familiar with the Grammar and syntax rules of the Hebrew Language; and you are cutting and pasting snippits from various sources and trying to impress people with your (absent) knowledge.

I should be imbarrased because you say so? Look if you were really trying to build up you would not be making personal attacks.

So tell me this, how can you prove which one of these is the Messiah's name:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
יֵשׁוַּע [/FONT]
​

​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]


יְהוֹשׁוּעַ[/FONT]
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[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 13:24-30, “Another parable He put before them, saying, “The reign of the heavens has become like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel (tares) among the wheat and went away. And when the blade sprouted and bore fruit, then the darnel (tares) also appeared. And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? From where then does it have the darnel (tares)?’ And he said to them, ‘A man, an enemy did this.’ And the servants said to him, ‘Do you wish then, that we go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the darnel (tares) you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I shall say to the reapers, “First gather the darnel and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my granary.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malachi 3:14-18, “You have said, ‘It is worthless to serve Yah. And what did we gain when we guarded His Charge, and when we walked as mourners before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts? And now we are calling the proud blessed – not only are the doers of wrongness built up, but they also try Yah and escape. Then shall those who fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]speak to one another, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him."[/FONT]

 

[mailmandan]

It does not strengthen your case by quoting multiple translations. While Jesus was actually alive and in His human body, He presented bread as REPRESENTATIVE (or symbolic) of His body, and that is how it was understood by the apostles and the apostolic churches. When He said that we are to eat His flesh and drink His blood, He was speaking about spiritual things. That those who receive Christ into their souls and spirits partake of Him, and He is *assimilated* into them.

Amen! Jesus is the Bread of Life. Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which is essential to sustain life. Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for eternal life. Just as bread nourishes our physical bodies, Jesus gives and sustains eternal life to all believers.

John 6:35 - "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." As Jesus was accustomed, He used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)

 

[Studyman]

=BillG;3391163]Why do you think there is no difference between the OT and the NT.
Is not one the old covenant and the other the new covenant? How were people saved under the OT/OC and how are people saved in the NT/NC?

Who told you that the Old Covenant is the Old Testament, and the New Covenant is the New Testament? Can you provide your source please for this statement?

Thanks Billy

To me we are saved by faith which leads to obedience. Not by obedience which leads to faith.
The Pharisees thought they were saved by obedience. What did Jesus say to them?


You say



Under the OT, Jesus had not yet been sacrificed for the forgiveness of sins.

One of the most disobedient man in the Bible, who by rights should have been put to death

Psalms 51:16-17
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

I'm sure God did not desire the sacrifice of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins.
For me his sacrifice on the cross and the coming of the Holy Spirit in those who believe are those who have a contrite heart,
One the says "Jesus I need you, forgive me and help me to bed like you"[/QUOTE]

 

[BillG]

Who told you that the Old Covenant is the Old Testament, and the New Covenant is the New Testament? Can you provide your source please for this statement?

Thanks Billy

Do you know what? No one told me that. Having looked at that again I can see I posted incorrectly.

I was asking for the difference between salvation under the OC/NC.

 

[Studyman]

Whatever dude, Keep believing the Catholic Church is the real church.

Those in power write history. You should know better.

What's the difference between worshipping Mary and creating an image of God in the likeness of some long haired male hair shampoo model?

By what measure are you judging the Catholic Church an a false, not a real church of God, that doesn't in turn judge you and your religion as the same?

How are you righteous by creating your own High Days and Sabbaths, but the Catholic's are not by doing the exact same things?

Is it because you call Jesus "Lord, Lord, that you are righteous and they are not?

What is the difference between you and the Catholics? You both Preach "God's Laws are not for the Christian". You both Preach the "Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying Him"?

Why don't you enlighten me as to how you can judge them as unrighteous(not a real church) while you, who do the same things, are considered righteous (real church)?

 

[Studyman]

Do you know what? No one told me that. Having looked at that again I can see I posted incorrectly.

I was asking for the difference between salvation under the OC/NC.

OK, that is a good question.

Salvation would have to start with some sort of cleansing, forgiveness yes? If you agree with that, in your belief, why is it that we would need Salvation, cleansing, forgiveness?

 

[Nehemiah6]

What is the difference between you and the Catholics? You both Preach "God's Laws are not for the Christian". You both Preach the "Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying Him"?

These are both incorrect, and I believe they misrepresent what Christians believe.

1. The Bible clearly teaches that no man can be JUSTIFIED (declared righteous) by the works of the Law of Moses. Justification is always by grace through faith.

2. The Bible clearly teaches that the Pharisees were trying to please God by (a) adherence to the letter of the law while neglecting the spirit and the weightier matters of the Law and (b) adding the traditions of the elders to the Law of Moses. Essentially, they were branded as hypocrites by Christ.

3. The Ten Commandments (which were distilled into the two greatest commandments) have become the Law of Christ, written on the hearts and minds of those who are regenerated, and to be obeyed by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. So Christians are not Antinomians, and the Antinomians are false teachers.

 

[MarcR]

I should be imbarrased because you say so? Look if you were really trying to build up you would not be making personal attacks.

So tell me this, how can you prove which one of these is the Messiah's name:

יֵשׁוַּע
​

​

יְהוֹשׁוּעַ
​

Anyone can prove that neither of them is the Lord's name by purchasing a basic Hebrew Grammar and studying it 2 hours a day for 6 months. It will become obvious to anyone who does that that Hebrew doesn't work that way.

 

[BillG]

OK, that is a good question.

Salvation would have to start with some sort of cleansing, forgiveness yes? If you agree with that, in your belief, why is it that we would need Salvation, cleansing, forgiveness?

In order to reconcile us back to the Father.

 

[Inquistor]

It does not strengthen your case by quoting multiple translations. While Jesus was actually alive and in His human body, He presented bread as REPRESENTATIVE (or symbolic) of His body, and that is how it was understood by the apostles and the apostolic churches. When He said that we are to eat His flesh and drink His blood, He was speaking about spiritual things. That those who receive Christ into their souls and spirits partake of Him, and He is *assimilated* into them.

That's a GREAT idea! Now, can you PLEASE CITE the SCRIPTURES which prove your theory, for all time?

 

[MarcR]

I should be imbarrased because you say so? Look if you were really trying to build up you would not be making personal attacks.

So tell me this, how can you prove which one of these is the Messiah's name:

יֵשׁוַּע
​

​

יְהוֹשׁוּעַ
​

It is not a personal attack to call the garbage you are trying to pass off as information- garbage;any more than it would be a personal attack to call a verb a verb.

 

[Inquistor]

What's the difference between worshipping Mary and creating an image of God in the likeness of some long haired male hair shampoo model?

By what measure are you judging the Catholic Church an a false, not a real church of God, that doesn't in turn judge you and your religion as the same?



How are you righteous by creating your own High Days and Sabbaths, but the Catholic's are not by doing the exact same things?

Is it because you call Jesus "Lord, Lord, that you are righteous and they are not?

What is the difference between you and the Catholics? You both Preach "God's Laws are not for the Christian". You both Preach the "Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying Him"?

Why don't you enlighten me as to how you can judge them as unrighteous(not a real church) while you, who do the same things, are considered righteous (real church)?

Oh, NOW I understand! Therefore, there was NO CHURCH ON EARTH until Martin Luther came along after the year 1500, and established the PROTESTant (notice the root word) religion(s)! Too bad all those people who lived and died in those 1500+ years were destined for HELL!!! I guess Jesus was pulling a practical JOKE when he, "You are Peter (petros), and upon this rock I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of hell SHALL NOT PREVAIL against it. I will give YOU (who was THAT He was talking to?) the keys of the kingdom. Whatever YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven." (Establishing infallibility in matters of faith and morals, and SUCCESSIVE authority throughout all time).

 

[Nehemiah6]

That's a GREAT idea! Now, can you PLEASE CITE the SCRIPTURES which prove your theory, for all time?

There are many Scriptures which show us that bread is a metaphor for Christ Himself. Just as ordinary bread sustains human life PHYSICALLY, the Divine life of Christ (which is eternal life) sustains the believer SPIRITUALLY. So bread as an element at the Lord's Supper represents Christ and our internal fellowship (communion) with Him. The Scriptures which make it clear are:

King James Bible (1 Cor 10:16)
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion (Gk koinonia) of the body of Christ?

Strong's Concordance (2842)

koinónia: fellowship​

Original Word: κοινωνία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: koinónia
Phonetic Spelling: (koy-nohn-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: participation, communion, fellowship
Definition: (lit: partnership) (a) contributory help, participation, (b) sharing in, communion, (c) spiritual fellowship, a fellowship in the spirit.

Did you notice that it says "spiritual fellowship"? That is also called "supping" (dining) in Scripture, and is a metaphor for intimate and blissful contact, communion, or fellowship.


King James Bible (Rev 3:20)
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup (Gk deipneo) with him, and he with me.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1172: δειπνέω

δειπνέω, δείπνῳ: (futureδειπνήσω; 1 aorist ἐδείπνησα; (δεῖπνον); to sup: Luke 17:8; Luke 22:20 (WH reject the whole passage, see their Appendix); 1 Corinthians 11:25; in an allegory, δειπνήσωμετ'αὐτοῦ, I will make him to share in my most intimate and blissful contact: Revelation 3:20.

So this is what the Lord's Supper is -- Holy Communion.

 

[Inquistor]

Here is a very interesting set of findings about KEEPING "ALL OF THE LAW!"

https://www.alltheinternet.com/?q=no+one+can+keep+all+of+the+law&ref=12222017000659&p=

From the very first link produced by the hyperlink immediately above:

"For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11And it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law..."