Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

I heard that......the same issue Nicodemus had.....as well as the others...just think...I took God blinding Saul to open his eyes to grace over some law abiding attempt at righteousness........

Amen! Dcon, God wants a "Love" relationship with His children not a "Law" relationship. The law brought us to God it was never intended to save us nor keep us saved. Let them hammer their foolish "legalism" to death it will never save anyone. Can you imagine having a law relationship with your wife and your kids, there would be no love and no joy, only misery and heartache and divorce waiting at your front door step.

The legalist needs to remove the "Veil" from their face and then they will see with their heart and not their legalistic mind. "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn", a pity.

2Corinthinians3:13-17
13) We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away.
14) But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because, "only in Christ is it taken away."
15) Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
16) But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

 

[TruthTalk]

[video=youtube;sSEcU-liGDs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSEcU-liGDs[/video]

"The reason for the season" ​

 

[Hizikyah]

Isaiah 54:11-17,


"54:11, "“O you afflicted one, tossed with storm, and not comforted, see, I am setting your stones in antimony, and shall lay your foundations with sapphires,


"54:12, "and shall make your battlements of rubies, your gates of crystal, and all your walls of precious stones,


"54:13, "and all your children taught by יהוה, and the peace of your children great.


"54:14, "“In righteousness you shall be established – far from oppression, for you shall not fear, and far from ruin, for it does not come near you.


"54:15, "“See, they shall indeed assemble, but not because of Me. Whoever shall assemble against you falls for your sake!


54:16, "“See, I Myself have created the blacksmith who blows the coals in the fire, who brings forth an instrument for his work. And I have created the waster to destroy."


54:17, "“No weapon formed against you shall prosper, and every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall prove wrong. This is the inheritance of the servants of יהוה, and their righteousness from Me,” declares יהוה."


Isaiah 55:1-13,


55:1, "“Oh everyone who thirsts, come to the waters. And you who have no silver, come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk without silver and without price."


55:2, "“Why do you weigh out silver for what is not bread, and your labour for what does not satisfy? Listen, listen to Me, and eat what is good, and let your being delight itself in fatness."


55:3, "“Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, so that your being lives. And let Me make an everlasting covenant with you, the trustworthy loving-commitments of Dawiḏ."


55:4, "“See, I have given Him as a witness to the people, a Leader and a Commander for the people."


55:5, "“See, a nation you do not know you shall call, and a nation who does not know you run to you, because of יהוה your Elohim, and the Set-apart One of Yisra’ĕl, for He has adorned you.”"


55:6, "Seek יהוה while He is to be found, call on Him while He is near."


55:7, "Let the wrong forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts. Let him return to יהוה, who has compassion on him, and to our Elohim, for He pardons much."


55:8, "“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” declares


יהוה."55:9, "“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts."


55:10, "“For as the rain comes down, and the snow from the heavens, and do not return there, but water the earth, and make it bring forth and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater,"


55:11, "so is My Word that goes forth from My mouth – it does not return to Me empty, but shall do what I please, and shall certainly accomplish what I sent it for."


55:12, "“For with joy you go out, and with peace you are brought in – the mountains and the hills break forth into singing before you, and all the trees of the field clap the hands."


55:13, "“Instead of the thorn the cypress comes up, and instead of the nettle the myrtle comes up. And it shall be to יהוה for a name, for an everlasting sign which is not cut off.”"

how are your works, Hizikyah
have you done enough to be saved

Can you quote a post of mine that would deserve such a cynical reply?

 

[Hizikyah]

2 Peter 3:9, “יהוה is not slow in regard to the promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward us, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”

Matthew 9:12-13, “And יהושע hearing this, said to them, “Those who are strong have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means, ‘I desire compassion and not offering.’ (Hos 6:6) For I did not come to call the righteous to repentance, but sinners.”

Romans 2:4, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, and tolerance, and patience, not knowing that the kindness of YHWH leads you to repentance?"

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may come from the presence of YHWH."

Psalms 51:1-17, “Show me favor, O Mighty One, According to Your loving-commitment; According to the greatness of Your compassion, Blot out my transgressions. Wash me completely from my guilt, And cleanse me from my sin. For I know my transgressions, And my sin is ever before me. Against You, You alone, have I sinned, And done evil in Your eyes; That You might be proven right in Your words; Be clear when You judge. See, I was brought forth in crookedness, And in sin my mother conceived me. See, You have desired truth in the inward parts, And in the hidden part You make me know wisdom. Cleanse me with hyssop, and I am clean; Wash me, and I am whiter than snow. Let me hear joy and gladness, Let the bones You have crushed rejoice. Hide Your face from my sins, And blot out all my crookedness. Create in me a clean heart, O Yah, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Set-apart Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of Your deliverance, And uphold me, Noble Spirit! Let me teach transgressors Your ways, So that sinners turn back to You. Deliver me from blood-guilt, O Mighty One, Strength of my deliverance, Let my tongue sing aloud of Your righteousness. O יהוה, open my lips, And that my mouth declare Your praise. For You do not desire slaughtering, or I would give it; You do not delight in ascending offering. The sacrifices of the Mighty One are a broken spirit, A heart broken and crushed, O Mighty One, These You do not despise.







Lamentations 3:40, “Let us search and examine our ways, And turn back to יהוה."




.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:133, Establish my footsteps by Your word, And let no wickedness have rule over me."[/FONT]

 

[Ralph-]

What works or type of works do the following saved have...

a. The Corinthian fornicator

You can't use him to defend being a lawless fornicator and still being saved when Jesus comes back because Paul said his flesh had to die in order for him to be saved. And we know that happened. He repented. He did not die physically. He died to the flesh and now he will be saved when Jesus returns. So you can't use him as proof that you do not have to have works and you will still be saved. He repented and had works of righteousness.

b. Those whose works are wood, hay and stubble

It's impossible that the works in 1 Corinthians 3 that are burned up when Jesus comes back, while the person who did those works will be saved, are the lawless works of adultery, fornication, idolatry, theft, drunkenness, and so on. We know that because 3 chapters later he says those who live lives like that will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. They will NOT be saved when Jesus comes back. So we know that the works Paul is talking about that get burned up while the person is saved can not be works of lawless disobedience. He has to be talking about other works, works of service, or else he contradicts his own teaching in the same letter in chapter 6.

c. The thief on the cross

He did not deny Christ in his suffering. He did nothing or said nothing to deny Him. He will be saved at the return of Christ and will get a new body that will live forever and never die, not be thrown into the furnace. He is an overcomer. You can not use him to defend living in sin and still being saved at the return of Christ because he did not sin. He was faithful to the very end. The person who says they believe but stays in their lawless life of sin is not being like he was. They will not be saved. Their lawlessness being the proof they do not know Christ. No proof here that unchanged people will be saved when Jesus comes back. He was changed. His life showed that. No comparison possible.

d. The prodigal

He repented. You can't use him as the reason why people who say they believe but who don't repent will still be saved when Jesus comes back because he repented, they didn't.



So if you're looking for Biblical proof that you can live your old unchanged life and still be saved you need to keep looking.

 

[Ralph-]

Amen! Dcon, God wants a "Love" relationship with His children not a "Law" relationship. The law brought us to God it was never intended to save us nor keep us saved. Let them hammer their foolish "legalism" to death it will never save anyone. Can you imagine having a law relationship with your wife and your kids, there would be no love and no joy, only misery and heartache and divorce waiting at your front door step.

The legalist needs to remove the "Veil" from their face and then they will see with their heart and not their legalistic mind. "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn", a pity.

2Corinthinians3:13-17
13) We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away.
14) But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because, "only in Christ is it taken away."
15) Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
16) But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Are you saying it is actually the one who is disobedient who has the veil removed while the one who is obedient still has the hardened, veiled mind? How does that work?

 

[loveme1]

how are your works, Hizikyah
have you done enough to be saved

Zonester alert! Get your armour ready this gal is one to watch.

 

[mailmandan]

how are your works, Hizikyah
have you done enough to be saved

So how many works must we accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Him save us? That is the $64,000 question that works-salvationists cannot answer. That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to receive Christ. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith.

 

[loveme1]

Can you quote a post of mine that would deserve such a cynical reply?

Roll with the punches Hizikyah.. iron sharpens iron..

I’m sure you are ever content growing in Grace and knowledge of the Lord and strengthened.

 

[Ralph-]

So how many works must we accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Him save us? That is the $64,000 question that works-salvationists cannot answer. That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to receive Christ. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith.

Just curious. Which posters are saying salvation is earned by works? Maybe I'll talk to them about that if you show me who's saying that. Justification is the forgiveness of sin apart from the merit of works to earn it. Works are how we know we have that justification. The person who says they are justified in Christ and can't prove it by a changed life is a liar.

 

[loveme1]

Just curious. Which posters are saying salvation is earned by works? Maybe I'll talk to them about that if you show me who's saying that. Justification is the forgiveness of sin apart from the merit of works to earn it. Works are how we know we have that justification. The person who says they are justified in Christ and can't prove it by a changed life is a liar.

Very well written, thank you for sharing.

A New heart of flesh.. a new way of life thanks to the Lord.

GOD ordained works are because of and not for Salvation indeed.

Wanting to be counted worthy to walk with Him in white.. I don’t feel entitled.. only grateful.

 

[homwardbound]

Note:, not one person in belief or not could ever be perfect not one. All through the Old Testament, Torah we see not one ever was perfect in his work trying to do Law, even each one prior to the Law given to do through Moses.

So, once the Christ, the Messiah, Yahshuah Ha'Mashiach came to earth as the Son of God the only exact image of God in flesh and blood, that never sinned against Father, the Holy Spirit.

[h=1]Galatians 2:20-21Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Acts 17:28Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 21:14-15Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Matthew 10:16-20Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 and ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.\

Not of works, if is or were, then man has reason to boast, but not before God. Works are done through us, But these are not of self or his world. I get pats on the back, I say no thanks, Father God gets them not me. He does the work that is done by Son once for all today the mystery revealed in loving all not a few as said in Luke 6:32

How can anyone be different, from the Heathen, if one only loves those that love them back? The Heathen natural flesh and blood does that naturally

Thank you, God does just love us all, proven in risen Son for us to walk new in by Faith (belief), as Father reveals this to each of his as in Romans 8:16

[/FONT]

 

[zone]

Can you quote a post of mine that would deserve such a cynical reply?

I simply posed the question.
I ask again....are your works sufficient to save you?

 

[TruthTalk]

Are you saying it is actually the one who is disobedient who has the veil removed while the one who is obedient still has the hardened, veiled mind? How does that work?

Sorry Ralph/Fran I will not be answering any of your childish questions.

Notice to forum - Ralph/Fran will be spending a long time it that quiet happy place called ignore.

 

[preacher4truth]

Can you quote a post of mine that would deserve such a cynical reply?

Just man up and answer the question.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Just man up and answer the question.

up to your devilish tricks again, you never learn demon boy.

 

[Ralph-]

Sorry Ralph/Fran I will not be answering any of your childish questions.

Notice to forum - Ralph/Fran will be spending a long time it that quiet happy place called ignore.

Yes it is silly that the one that is not obedient to the law of Moses about adultery, fornication, stealing, lying, cheating, idolatry, loving your neighbor, etc. is the unveiled mind that can see, while the one that is obedient to it is the veiled mind that can't see. I see exactly why someone would choose to avoid defending such an absurd suggestion.

What the veiled mind can't comprehend is how the law is a means of justification. Obeying the law to not murder, steal, fornicate, commit adultery is not what it means to have a veiled mind. Obeying the law shows you can see Christ and know Him.

 

[Ralph-]

I simply posed the question.
I ask again....are your works sufficient to save you?

Has he ever said that it is by works that one is justified (made righteous)? If he has can you quote the post so I can set him straight?

 

[Ralph-]

Note:, not one person in belief or not could ever be perfect not one. All through the Old Testament, Torah we see not one ever was perfect in his work trying to do Law, even each one prior to the Law given to do through Moses.

So, once the Christ, the Messiah, Yahshuah Ha'Mashiach came to earth as the Son of God the only exact image of God in flesh and blood, that never sinned against Father, the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 2:20-21Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Acts 17:28Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.


Luke 21:14-15Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.


Matthew 10:16-20Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 and ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.\

Not of works, if is or were, then man has reason to boast, but not before God. Works are done through us, But these are not of self or his world. I get pats on the back, I say no thanks, Father God gets them not me. He does the work that is done by Son once for all today the mystery revealed in loving all not a few as said in Luke 6:32

How can anyone be different, from the Heathen, if one only loves those that love them back? The Heathen natural flesh and blood does that naturally

Thank you, God does just love us all, proven in risen Son for us to walk new in by Faith (belief), as Father reveals this to each of his as in Romans 8:16

If I don't have these works of God through me will I be saved when Jesus comes back? It is being argued here that a Christian does not have to have a changed life to be saved when Jesus comes back. What do you say?

It's even being said that if you do say you have those works you are a legalist and a Pharisee and it's is just you trying to justify yourself and that the true Christian is still enslaved to sin like in Romans 7.