Not By Works

stand2 · Dec 26, 2017

Then there were two.

preacher4truth · Dec 26, 2017

Of course I agree!!!!!!!

With this caveat; only in part and only in proper context.

I've already answered you. Hopefully the third time is a charm?

The one believing is converted. The one not believing isn't converted. It is only speaking of the converted and unconverted, that is the sense, that is the context.

And yes, you're eisegeting the text, so, I'll keep throwing that around because it's factual.

BillG · Dec 26, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Read Leviticus 14. and see if you can find grace in it. I can see it.

Chester · Dec 26, 2017

preacher4truth said:

Thanks for the straight answer!

I think our disagreement is this:
I think it is possible for a person to stop believing and you believe it is not possible for a person to stop believing.

OK! I agree to disagree!

And now, please don't ask me any more good questions or make any more comments that get my blood running thick! Or else I will have to keep on answering, and then my wife won't like me any more, because I promised to get home a while back already! LOL!

OK, I am out of here! (Maybe!)

eternally-gratefull · Dec 26, 2017

dcontroversal said:

BillG said:

I grew up being taught how much judgment there was in the OT. When I sat still and started reading with an open mind, I realized how much MORE grace was in the OT.

Chester · Dec 26, 2017

BillG said:

Sure! if you meet mine will you tell them that I have dollars of humor?

BillG · Dec 26, 2017

Chester said:

Thanks for the straight answer!

I think our disagreement is this:
I think it is possible for a person to stop believing and you believe it is not possible for a person to stop believing.

OK! I agree to disagree!

And now, please don't ask me any more good questions or make any more comments that get my blood running thick! Or else I will have to keep on answering, and then my wife won't like me any more, because I promised to get home a while back already! LOL!

OK, I am out of here! (Maybe!)

Happy wife equals happy life.
Grumpy wife equals run for cover

preacher4truth · Dec 26, 2017

Chester said:

The text you've misused does not support your teaching.

How shall I sleep tonight?

When you drive home, keep repeating:

"Exegesis, exegesis, exegesis. John 3:36 is talking about the converted and unconverted, not loss of salvation! "Exegesis, exegesis, exegesis. John 3:36 is talking about the converted and unconverted, not loss of salvation! "Exegesis, exegesis, exegesis. John 3:36 is talking about the converted and unconverted, not loss of salvation! "Exegesis, exegesis, exegesis. John 3:36 is talking about the converted and unconverted, not loss of salvation! "Exegesis, exegesis, exegesis. John 3:36 is talking about the converted and unconverted, not loss of salvation! "Exegesis, exegesis, exegesis. John 3:36 is talking about the converted and unconverted, not loss of salvation!"

BillG · Dec 26, 2017

Chester said:

Ok will do, at least we agree on this

Chester · Dec 26, 2017

preacher4truth said:

Oh, you! You did it! I can't sleep for seven nights!

You don't realize I have taught many classes on proper Biblical exegesis . . . You sure know how to get my blood flowing

and now I have a mad wife . . . . . .

Hizikyah · Dec 26, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 45:21-22, “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Is it not I, [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Power and Savior, there is none besides Me[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Strength, and there is none else.”[/FONT] [/FONT]

preacher4truth · Dec 26, 2017

Chester said:

Then you should clearly see the text isn't speaking at all about losing salvation. It's not in the context.

Well, the sofa misses you.

star · Dec 26, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

Salvation and faith IMHO are two different items. We come to salvation because we have an experience with Jesus Christ to the point that we believe He is who He says He is and He will do what He says He will do - save our souls unto eternal life. John 3:16 simplifies that.

Salvation is eternal, sealed by the Holy Spirit and not by anything we have done. We accepted the free gift of salvation through an experience in our heart/soul with the Lamb of God. Done deal.

Faith is another matter. As we become that new creation - born again person, we either mature and grow spiritually with our minds renewed (daily) or else we remain as babes. If we remain as babes, we will not produce any fruit, evangelize, uphold our brothers or sisters, and earn any rewards in heaven. Babies only.

Faith matured means we are living without seeing, believing without physical proof, trusting only in the Creator God and not in our own power. Faith either grows or faith becomes withered.

As for those who have walked away - what have they walked away from? Assembling themselves together with the physical church, reading the Word, practicing what scripture has taught them? First of all, I've almost stopped going to my physical church because at a time I needed the pastor the most, he was not there for me. However, does that mean I no longer have faith, no longer believe in God, no longer have my salvation? Nope, it means I have lost trust in a leader of the flock. (this in itself I could post a book on.)

Salvation will never be lost; trust and faith can be weakened, beaten, withered but if one is saved, they belong to God Almighty make of heaven and earth.

Didn't mean to be so lengthy and worded. I usually post small and simple posts.

ElAmor · Dec 26, 2017

MattforJesus said:

Those who believes in the Son has eternal life,but they must have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,for this to happen,or else their belief does not count.

The Lord knows them that are His having this seal,let everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

God is not mocked for whatever a person sows that shall they reap,and tells the saints to not be deceived by that.

Paul said awake to righteousness,and sin not,but some have not the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame.

Jesus said whatever is in a person's heart that is what will come out,so if they speak sin,and do sin,then that is what is in their heart.

The person that does not do righteousness is not of God.

Lay aside every weight of sin that does so easily beset us.

Abstain from fleshy lusts that war against the soul.

Out of faith,hope,and charity,charity is the greatest,and charity is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul said that love does not think an evil thought,and does not sin by the Spirit,and is not selfish,and not arrogant,and not unkind,and only goes by their needs,and not their wants,and helps the poor and needy if possible.

Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have love he is nothing,and if a person believes that God blesses with money,and material things,for their wants,withdraw yourself from them,and they have erred from the faith,having food and clothing,be content.

James said if they do not have charity then their faith is dead.

John said if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them,so let us not love in word only,but in deed and in truth.

The early Church had all things common,and shared,and sold all their things that was not a necessity,and gave to those that were in need,for that is love.

Love not the world,or the things in the world,if any person loves the world,or the things in the world,the love of the Father is not in them.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish the law,and the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,the laws of love,moral laws.

If a person hates sin,and does not want sin,then by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,for they have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,and show the ways of the Spirit,and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able,and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

A Spirit led life will not sin,so they are not under the law,which the law cannot touch them for prosecution,but if they sin,and hold unto sin,then they are under the law,and the law can prosecute them,until they repent and are led of the Spirit.

Our belief does not count unless we have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,which God hates sin,and says sin separates us from Him,so for a person to hold unto sin thinking they are alright with God would give them an improper perspective of God,which by the Spirit they can abstain from sin if they do not want sin,and God's kingdom is love,so to go by your wants,enjoying money,and material things,and not caring about the poor and needy,would give a person the improper perspective of God's kingdom.

With the improper perspective of God and His Kingdom a person would be asserting their own ways,and authority,which is why God said to obey is better than sacrifice,for rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,and stubbornness is as iniquity,and idolatry.

Which the Bible says all our thoughts are to be to the obedience of Christ until are obedience is fulfilled,so we can revenge all disobedience,and Jesus said why call Him Lord if you do not do what He says,and if a person does not obey Jesus' commands then they do not love Him,and Jesus told His disciples to go out and teach people all that He commanded them.

We must have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,for our belief,love,and faith,to apply.

Which the Bible said some have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth,which there are millions of people that hold unto sin,and believe the prosperity Gospel,and think they are right with God.

But then their belief does not count.

Those that believe in the Son has eternal life,but not all have the proper belief.

It should be a given when a person confesses Christ to abstain from sin,for they repent of their sins,and should be understood that they can receive the Spirit to abstain from sins,why would it take so long to understand that,and how can many people not come to that truth,but confess Christ,but do not truly repent,and believe they receive the Spirit,but do not abstain from sins.

I love listening and reading biblical truths compared to some other posts which are vain conceits, insults and cursings, personal attacks if i may say rather than edification.

I believe that the Word is alive and it cuts like a double edged sword, hebrews 4:12.
That the word is a spirit, john 6:63, 16:13, and the TRUTH, ephesians 1:13, james 1:18.

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! LET GOD BE TRUE, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

Stay in the Love and the Truth of our God, in His Grace and Mercy, in His only begotten Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hizikyah · Dec 26, 2017

Revelation 15:3, “And they sing the song of Mosheh the servant of יהוה, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and marvelous are Your works, יהוה Strength Almighty! Righteous and true are Your ways, O Sovereign of the set-apart ones!”

dcontroversal · Dec 26, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

All through it....

dcontroversal · Dec 26, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

All through it....

Ralph- · Dec 26, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

Hi, Rosemary. This is Ralph, not Fran. You'll stop being tossed to and fro about by the winds of this once saved always saved stuff when you realize it doesn't matter if a person can lose their salvation or not. What matters is that you are not fruitless and lawless and barren of works of faith when Jesus returns. Because it is the fruitless that Jesus is going to reject when He comes back.

People who say you can't lose your salvation say you fall and don't obey God and are lost because you didn't really believe to begin with. And people who say you can lose your salvation say you fall and don't obey God and are lost because you stopped believing. But the outcome of both beliefs is the same. Either way, whether you never really believed, or stopped believing, if you do not have works of faith when Jesus comes back it means you do not believe in Him and you will be rejected by Him and not saved.

So the Bible tells us to make our calling and election sure. In other words, we are to make certain that we really are saved so when Jesus comes back we will not be rejected. We know for sure if we are saved by obeying God's instructions for holy living (unsaved people can't do that). Paul said what counts is being a new creation that serves God according to the fruit of the Spirit. John said those who do that don't wonder if they are saved or not and have no fear of the wrath to come. Their works prove they know God and that He knows them.

Peter said as long as you are practicing the qualities of the Spirit you will never fall and you will receive a rich welcome into the kingdom. People who obey God this way don't have to know or care if they can lose their salvation. Contrary to what many here seem to believe, correct doctrine is not how you know that you have a saving relationship with God. Walking according to the fruit of the Spirit is how you know you are saved and need not think or worry about what will happen when Christ returns.

The condemnation that is coming when Christ returns is reserved for those who don't know him and show they don't know him by how they did not live for him. The salvation that is coming when Christ returns is reserved for those who DO know him and show they know him by how they DID live for him through their faith in Him. That's all you have to know: Don't be a fruitless, barren field when Christ returns. File the matter of if you can lose your salvation or not into the 'curious but not important' file. What's important is that you have works of faith so you won't be condemned with those who don't have works of faith at the return of Christ. The only thing that matters is faith working through love--Galatians 5:6. What counts is a new creation-Galatians 6:15-16.

ComeLordJesus · Dec 26, 2017

Geneva Bible 1599

Not by the works of righteousness, which we had done, but according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of the new birth, and the renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Ralph- · Dec 26, 2017

ComeLordJesus said:

And we know who has that mercy and the washing of the new birth and renewal of the Holy Spirit by how they act. Luke 7:47.

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