Revelation 14:4

[Willie-T]

v4. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are chaste men. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Just curious......... How many people here think those words declare the 144,000, is first of all, an exact and precise number.... AND, more explicitly, do you think that means they are they virgins?

 

[Ezekiel8]

I do, I believe it firmly.

 

[Willie-T]

I do, I believe it firmly.

Interesting......

 

[Ahwatukee]

v4. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are chaste men. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Just curious......... How many people here think those words declare the 144,000, is first of all, an exact and precise number.... AND, more explicitly, do you think that means they are they virgins?

A better question would be, why would anyone after reading the number 144,000 which is consistent in both chapter 7 and 14 not believe in the literacy of the number that is written, especially when that number is broken down into twelve thousand per each tribe of Israel?

The reference to them being virgins is found in verse 4 as those who did not defile themselves with women.

So in answer to your question, yes, this will be a literal group of 144,000 Israelites who are the first fruits to God coming out of unbelieving Israel and who will have not defiled themselves with women and who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah.

Regarding the number 144,000, there is nothing in the context that would suggest symbolism of that number.

 

[Ezekiel8]

A better question would be, why would anyone after reading the number 144,000 which is consistent in both chapter 7 and 14 not believe in the literacy of the number that is written, especially when that number is broken down into twelve thousand per each tribe of Israel?

The reference to them being virgins is found in verse 4 as those who did not defile themselves with women.

So in answer to your question, yes, this will be a literal group of 144,000 Israelites who are the first fruits to God coming out of unbelieving Israel and who will have not defiled themselves with women and who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah.

Regarding the number 144,000, there is nothing in the context that would suggest symbolism of that number.

It's because a lot of them have a heretical view of the rapture that they don't want to accept it.

Makes me think of a funny story. An old married man once tried to preach the rapture to me, and it was full of errors as typical, but rather than go through all his errors I just let him go on for a while before I laughed at him and said "why do you care, you ain't going to be there."

 

[Willie-T]

I'm sure hoping for comments from more people. This takes me right back to my clinical days.

 

[Ezekiel8]

I'm sure hoping for comments from more people. This takes me right back to my clinical days.

Well while you wait for more patients then, I am curious, what do you think about Revelation 14?

Doctor, doctor, give me the news.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

While symbolism is used a lot in Revelation, so are certain facts stated.
I believe that they are virgin males and there are 144,000.
NOW, anything else that is stated as fact by some posters should be taken with a grain of salt.
Lot of opinions and speculations expressed by some.

 

[Willie-T]

Well while you wait for more patients then, I am curious, what do you think about Revelation 14?

Doctor, doctor, give me the news.

I don't do like a lot of people do. I prefer to feel as though I understand, pretty completely, one or two things at a time, before I try to draw "overall" conclusions. That is one of the reasons my question was not about the totality of the chapter of Revelation 14, but only, and specifically about Revelation 14:4.

 

[Ezekiel8]

I don't do like a lot of people do. I prefer to feel as though I understand, pretty completely, one or two things at a time, before I try to draw "overall" conclusions. That is one of the reasons my question was not about the totality of the chapter of Revelation 14, but only, and specifically about Revelation 14:4.

My apologies for misspeaking. What do you think about verse four?

Lol though it would have been funnier if you replied "I got a bad case of loving you." Forgive me for my poor taste in music.

 

[Willie-T]

My apologies for misspeaking. What do you think about verse four?

Lol though it would have been funnier if you replied "I got a bad case of loving you." Forgive me for my poor taste in music.

Well, the main emphasis I have is on the word, "defiled." Is the sexual union God created as Holy and pure, here, called "defiled", as though doing just what God began His creation telling mankind to do, is somehow now a matter of "defiling" ourselves? He seems to have no problem with a word like "knowing" in every other place in the Bible. Why, here, is a sexual union called "defiling" oneself........ unless He is talking about a different kind of union apostic Judaism had fallen into?

 

[Ezekiel8]

Well, the main emphasis I have is on the word, "defiled." Is the sexual union God created as Holy and pure, here, called "defiled", as though doing just what God began His creation telling mankind to do, is somehow now a matter of "defiling" ourselves? He seems to have no problem with a word like "knowing" in every other place in the Bible. Why, here, is a sexual union called "defiling" oneself........ unless He is talking about a different kind of union apostic Judaism had fallen into?

I see what you mean. Well I think it's not so much that God is saying sex is bad, in the sense of defilement, but I think defiled here is in the sense that your divinity is defiled. I would say a good passage to confirm this is like Paul says here:

1 Corinthians 7:32-33

[SUP]32 [/SUP]But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

Now let me also add if you are married, it's not like you are totally damned, there is after all the second resurrection. To me it seems though you have your reward all ready if you are married, you got your reward here on earth. For it is written that he who finds a wife finds a good thing in the Lord. A virgin doesn't have that, a virgin gets not much comfort in this world, and so this is like their reward.

 

[Hungry]

With the amount of young men living in their parents basements, playing video games in solitude I would say that chaste men will be norm, not the exception.

 

[Ezekiel8]

With the amount of young men living in their parents basements, playing video games in solitude I would say that chaste men will be norm, not the exception.

Lol this has to be one of the greatest things I ever read!

[video=youtube;dYTfzfsbiUI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYTfzfsbiUI[/video]

 

[Adstar]

v4. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are chaste men. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Just curious......... How many people here think those words declare the 144,000, is first of all, an exact and precise number.... AND, more explicitly, do you think that means they are they virgins?

Revelation 14: KJV
4"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

The KJV clearly identifies them as virgins.. The Book of Revelation also declares that there will be 12,000 from each tribe of Israel.. So these innocents will be decendants of Abraham.. God saving these innocents does not undermine salvation by the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. Because only Sinners need the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. But innocent ones who have no knowledge of sin are acceptable before the LORD..

I believe the 144,000 will be toddlers..

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well, the main emphasis I have is on the word, "defiled." Is the sexual union God created as Holy and pure, here, called "defiled", as though doing just what God began His creation telling mankind to do, is somehow now a matter of "defiling" ourselves? He seems to have no problem with a word like "knowing" in every other place in the Bible. Why, here, is a sexual union called "defiling" oneself........ unless He is talking about a different kind of union apostic Judaism had fallen into?

Because the verse is speaking of sexual immorality, promiscuous sex, which is prevalent in the world. They did not defile themselves with women. The verse is not speaking in regards to sexual intimacy between a married man and woman.

 

[Adstar]

With the amount of young men living in their parents basements, playing video games in solitude I would say that chaste men will be norm, not the exception.

Actually, people may laugh, but in these end times there are probably more virgin men living in this world then virgin woman...

The feminist agenda has encouraged woman to go out and make whores of themselves to demonstrate to the world that they a ""liberated"" from ""patriarchal oppression"".. In this toxic end times culture most of these woman have been whoring around with maybe 20 - 25% of the male population.

 

[Ezekiel8]

Revelation 14: KJV
4"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

The KJV clearly identifies them as virgins.. The Book of Revelation also declares that there will be 12,000 from each tribe of Israel.. So these innocents will be decendants of Abraham.. God saving these innocents does not undermine salvation by the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. Because only Sinners need the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. But innocent ones who have no knowledge of sin are acceptable before the LORD..

I believe the 144,000 will be toddlers..

There's quite a few virgin men that are not toddlers, though they are very few historically speaking. After all if you're a virgin male, you're in a funny way you will be the first person in your direct family line to be a virgin and you'll be the last also. I suppose in a sense virgin males are in a way a little bit childish lol. Even the ones that want to be married, all they can really do is imagine, they don't really know what it's like. They just don't. There is a certain alienation between virgins and the married and the Bible speaks of this.

 

[Willie-T]

I am having a difficult time wit the inclusion of the very descriptive word, "defiled", when 'virgin' is used all over the Bible without ever having it connected to "defiled." I think there is something very important in that description that we cannot so easily dismiss.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

v4. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are chaste men. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Just curious......... How many people here think those words declare the 144,000, is first of all, an exact and precise number.... AND, more explicitly, do you think that means they are they virgins?

exact?

hmmmmmm id say i usually take scripture literal unless the contrary is obvious or clearly pointed to in other words within scripture

and virgins?
hmmmmmm

probably virgins from the sounds of it to me

but definitely never being "defiled" with women


im not sure if you can call knowing your wife being "defiled" with women