Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?
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Hi Jackson123,
I just wanted you to know that Catholics don't pray to Mary. Rather, Catholics ask for Mary's prayers just like you might ask your friends or loved ones to pray for you. Now I know you don't believe in that, but I just didn't want you thinking that Catholics actually pray to Mary like we pray to Jesus.
Thanks.
-Ernie-
I just wanted you to know that Catholics don't pray to Mary. Rather, Catholics ask for Mary's prayers just like you might ask your friends or loved ones to pray for you. Now I know you don't believe in that, but I just didn't want you thinking that Catholics actually pray to Mary like we pray to Jesus.
Thanks.
-Ernie-
Prayer is asking or seeking. There request are in respect to a hope of a work coming from diesembodied spirits. While the Protestants seek after our father in heaven as the one manner of communing with things that have no form as a disembodied Spirit .God is not a man as us. The Catholic have a legion of workers with familiar spirits(3500) in order to give the illusion when those leave here they still have a part in reigning with Christ of earth . Scripture calls that kind of seeking necromancy. The Jews were guilty for the same thing.
As far as are they Christians . They deny the fullness of the grace of God that should mean something?
As far as are they Christians . They deny the fullness of the grace of God that should mean something?
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Roman Catholics get down on their knees and make supplications to Mary, whom they believe to be interceding for them in heaven. If you do not call that praying to Mary (and the "Hail Mary" IS called a prayer), then you are terribly misinformed, or lying.
The Hail Mary, also commonly called the Ave Maria (Latin) or Angelic Salutation, is a traditional Catholic prayer asking for the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus. In Roman Catholicism, the prayer forms the basis of the Rosary and the Angelus prayers.
The Catholic theology states that sacraments bring righteousness and security.
The Protestant theology will tell you that Jesus's sacrifice was simply a transaction where "justice was satisfied" on behalf of those who believe In him and salvation Is totally positional.
Both sides deny genuine purity of heart, genuine faithfulness and the real new birth. This Is why both of these two churches will still argue for ongoing sin In some form or another. Wether it's outright blatant sin or an easy forgiveness from the sin repent cycle stuff the Protestants tend to believe where you sin and pray your prayer and you're all good If you feel bad for it. Repentance Isn't penance It's ceasing of sin
It's not about what church you go or If you go to a church at all. Assess someones life the bible states you'll know them by their fruit, you'll see them displaying the character of Christ and living In love which Is the fulfillment of the commandments.
Proverbs 27:19King James Version (KJV)
19 As in water face answereth to face, so the heart of man to man
Matthew 7:16-20King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Romans 2:28-29King James Version (KJV)
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
1 Corinthians 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.
Jeremiah 4:4King James Version (KJV)
4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
The Protestant theology will tell you that Jesus's sacrifice was simply a transaction where "justice was satisfied" on behalf of those who believe In him and salvation Is totally positional.
Both sides deny genuine purity of heart, genuine faithfulness and the real new birth. This Is why both of these two churches will still argue for ongoing sin In some form or another. Wether it's outright blatant sin or an easy forgiveness from the sin repent cycle stuff the Protestants tend to believe where you sin and pray your prayer and you're all good If you feel bad for it. Repentance Isn't penance It's ceasing of sin
It's not about what church you go or If you go to a church at all. Assess someones life the bible states you'll know them by their fruit, you'll see them displaying the character of Christ and living In love which Is the fulfillment of the commandments.
Proverbs 27:19King James Version (KJV)
19 As in water face answereth to face, so the heart of man to man
Matthew 7:16-20King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Romans 2:28-29King James Version (KJV)
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
1 Corinthians 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.
Jeremiah 4:4King James Version (KJV)
4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Hi Magenta,
I wouldn't say that Catholics believe that Mary is a mediator between man and God, but rather that she played a critical role in the sense of wholeheartedly believing God (Luke 1:38). And thus deserves great honor, but not worship!
As for the doctrines you mentioned regarding Mary, there are biblical basis for them, but I would imagine you would disagree with the Catholic Church's interpretation. For example, the Immaculate Conception is based on Luke 1:28 where Elizabeth greets Mary as being "full of grace". Now your bible will likely state "highly favored one" or something like that. We're then left with who's interpretation is accurate?
Another example is Mary ever virgin. Although it states that Jesus has siblings (MT 12:46, MT 13:55-56...) the use of the word "brother" could mean brother or cousin. For example, in Gen 14:14 Lot is called Abraham's brother and we know he is his nephew. There is formal evidence of the early Church's belief in Mary ever virgin as early as 553 A.D. at the second council of Constantinople. This wasn't a Catholic council, but rather the council of the single universal Christian Church at the time. Jesus said He would protect His Church (MT 16:18) so if that single universal Christian Church was wrong then how can we prove that Jesus kept His promise?
Bottom line is that no faithful Catholic who knows their faith would put Mary in even a remotely similar realm as Jesus. We worship our Lord while giving honor to Mary for her faithfulness and the supporting role she played in the birth of our Savior.
I hope this helps. Thanks.
-Ernie-
I wouldn't say that Catholics believe that Mary is a mediator between man and God, but rather that she played a critical role in the sense of wholeheartedly believing God (Luke 1:38). And thus deserves great honor, but not worship!
As for the doctrines you mentioned regarding Mary, there are biblical basis for them, but I would imagine you would disagree with the Catholic Church's interpretation. For example, the Immaculate Conception is based on Luke 1:28 where Elizabeth greets Mary as being "full of grace". Now your bible will likely state "highly favored one" or something like that. We're then left with who's interpretation is accurate?
Another example is Mary ever virgin. Although it states that Jesus has siblings (MT 12:46, MT 13:55-56...) the use of the word "brother" could mean brother or cousin. For example, in Gen 14:14 Lot is called Abraham's brother and we know he is his nephew. There is formal evidence of the early Church's belief in Mary ever virgin as early as 553 A.D. at the second council of Constantinople. This wasn't a Catholic council, but rather the council of the single universal Christian Church at the time. Jesus said He would protect His Church (MT 16:18) so if that single universal Christian Church was wrong then how can we prove that Jesus kept His promise?
Bottom line is that no faithful Catholic who knows their faith would put Mary in even a remotely similar realm as Jesus. We worship our Lord while giving honor to Mary for her faithfulness and the supporting role she played in the birth of our Savior.
I hope this helps. Thanks.
-Ernie-
Ernie, It would be better to honestly admit that Catholics do pray to Mary, rather than deceive yourself.
Salve, Regina: English and Latin
Hail, holy Queen
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee to we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Now when we open our Bibles we DO NOT FIND:
1. Mary designated as the Queen of Heaven
2. That she is the Mother of Mercy
3. That she is our Hope
4. That we must cry to her for help
5. That she is our gracious Advocate
6. That she is the Mother of God
7. That her prayers can make us "worthy" of the promises of Christ.
Salve, Regina: English and Latin
Hail, holy Queen
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee to we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Now when we open our Bibles we DO NOT FIND:
1. Mary designated as the Queen of Heaven
2. That she is the Mother of Mercy
3. That she is our Hope
4. That we must cry to her for help
5. That she is our gracious Advocate
6. That she is the Mother of God
7. That her prayers can make us "worthy" of the promises of Christ.
I was born into a Catholic family and I can tell you that many Catholics believe in Jesus as Lord and are saved. Don't forget The Holy Spirit indwelling us is a separate event from salvation. A person CAN be saved for a long time before receiving The Holy Spirit.
I think this is one of the main differences, not that Catholics aren't saved but that they practice dead religion rather than relationship. When you've grown up in it you don't know any different. And The Catholic Church doesn't go out of it's way to encourage Bible study.
If the priests taught you the Bible you would see that you don't need the priests
But as a Catholic you certainly recognise God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I left the Catholic church when I was about 18 because I began to research The Bible for myself and I discovered that many of the Catholic practices were sheer idolatry which was displeasing to God. I was doing religious studies and I wanted to understand the foundation of our faith. I wanted to know the truth. Jesus revealed himself to me personally but I had a basic understanding of his ministry because of growing up Catholic. I did used to believe in him and talk to him as a child.
The biggest problem many Catholics have (to put it in Biblical terms) is that they 'cling to worthless idols'. A lot of people have trouble letting go of the Mother goddess worship and the veneration of saints and statues. Some of them get quite offended if you point out that it is idol worship. Those were the things I began to find repulsive as I got to know The Lord. So I left.
I don't trust The Vatican at all but I think it would be wrong to say that people who are Catholics aren't saved. The Lord will deal with them on an individual basis I'm sure.
Below is the prayer we recited at mass on Sundays. You can see it includes all the necessary articles of Christian faith.
"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
Now apart from the part about "one holy Catholic church" I can't see how that confession of faith isn't Christian.
Thousands recite it every Sunday and thousands believe it even if they don't trust The Pope.
There are definitely some problems there but I think the Catholics are a part of The Body of Christ.
Remember the Letters from The Lord in Revelation. He is still doing a work in us collectively as well as individually.
Pray for them! There are Millions worldwide and The Catholic Church is the only representative of The Christian faith in some poor parts of the world. I know an ex-Hindu girl who heard about Jesus through The Catholics in India. It was the beginning of her search for him.
I think this is one of the main differences, not that Catholics aren't saved but that they practice dead religion rather than relationship. When you've grown up in it you don't know any different. And The Catholic Church doesn't go out of it's way to encourage Bible study.
If the priests taught you the Bible you would see that you don't need the priests
But as a Catholic you certainly recognise God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I left the Catholic church when I was about 18 because I began to research The Bible for myself and I discovered that many of the Catholic practices were sheer idolatry which was displeasing to God. I was doing religious studies and I wanted to understand the foundation of our faith. I wanted to know the truth. Jesus revealed himself to me personally but I had a basic understanding of his ministry because of growing up Catholic. I did used to believe in him and talk to him as a child.
The biggest problem many Catholics have (to put it in Biblical terms) is that they 'cling to worthless idols'. A lot of people have trouble letting go of the Mother goddess worship and the veneration of saints and statues. Some of them get quite offended if you point out that it is idol worship. Those were the things I began to find repulsive as I got to know The Lord. So I left.
I don't trust The Vatican at all but I think it would be wrong to say that people who are Catholics aren't saved. The Lord will deal with them on an individual basis I'm sure.
Below is the prayer we recited at mass on Sundays. You can see it includes all the necessary articles of Christian faith.
"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
Now apart from the part about "one holy Catholic church" I can't see how that confession of faith isn't Christian.
Thousands recite it every Sunday and thousands believe it even if they don't trust The Pope.
There are definitely some problems there but I think the Catholics are a part of The Body of Christ.
Remember the Letters from The Lord in Revelation. He is still doing a work in us collectively as well as individually.
Pray for them! There are Millions worldwide and The Catholic Church is the only representative of The Christian faith in some poor parts of the world. I know an ex-Hindu girl who heard about Jesus through The Catholics in India. It was the beginning of her search for him.
Thank you for your heart felt post. I kind of know what you mean by saying that Catholics practice a dead religion rather than relationship and it makes me sad. I know that you disagree in the teachings on the Eucharist, but I believe that I'm taking the Lord in the most personal way imaginable as often as daily. For Catholics, who say they believe, to be so cavalier about something so important is so very sad. And priests are needed because of the sacrificial nature (albeit unbloody) of the Mass (again I realize that you don't believe in that).
As for Mary, any faithful Catholic would be offended by anyone worshiping Mary or anyone or anything other than God. Statues and icons are venerated (not worshipped) per the 8th church council in Constantinople in 869 A.D.
And thank you for including the Creed. This Creed was used by the single universal Christian Church as far back as 325 A.D. when it was created by the first church council. The Creed makes a point to use the term catholic (small c) because there was no Catholic (capital C) destinction to the church at that time, just that it was the universal church. What that universal church believed was protected as the truth per Jesus's promise in MT 16:18.
Thank you for the dialogue!
-Ernie-
Catholic means univeral, so I would say a Universal Christan is saved, but if you are talking about Roman Catholic Church, if someone places their faith fully on the RCC teachings, then no they are not saved. Reason being the Pope is the final word and is the sole representative or vicar of Christ on earth, when the Bible says that we as Christians are the representative of Christ on earth we are His ambassador and we are living epistles. The traditions of the RCC are over the Bible as well as the Pope, I remember in my first holy communion I had to resight a prayer that I believed in God and the holy RCC so that I could receive communion for the first time.
Ambassadors II Corinthians 5:20 “Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
Epistles II Corinthians 3:2-6 “You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
And we have such trust through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
Ambassadors II Corinthians 5:20 “Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
Epistles II Corinthians 3:2-6 “You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
And we have such trust through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
‘I am right because I am right. Catholics believe differently than I do, therefore they are wrong!’
I am not a Roman Catholic, and I have never been one—but I have studied Roman Catholic theology enough to know that the points of Roman Catholic doctrine that I personally disagree with are peripheral doctrines of no great significance. On the other hand, I have studied Protestant theology enough to know that the five points of Calvinism were concocted by renegade Roman Catholics with a minimal amount of Christian education and experience, and that the five points of Calvinism have caused more harm to the Church than all of the peripheral doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church put together! I also know that the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching on water baptism is in perfect harmony with the teaching in the New Testament, and that nearly all of the 245+ Baptist denominations teach a view that is radically contrary to the teaching of the New Testament!
I am not a Roman Catholic, and I have never been one—but I have studied Roman Catholic theology enough to know that the points of Roman Catholic doctrine that I personally disagree with are peripheral doctrines of no great significance. On the other hand, I have studied Protestant theology enough to know that the five points of Calvinism were concocted by renegade Roman Catholics with a minimal amount of Christian education and experience, and that the five points of Calvinism have caused more harm to the Church than all of the peripheral doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church put together! I also know that the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching on water baptism is in perfect harmony with the teaching in the New Testament, and that nearly all of the 245+ Baptist denominations teach a view that is radically contrary to the teaching of the New Testament!
hi Ernie this is one of the pray to Mary in Indonesia, I Google Translate. Not only pray to but submit, they use the word master our heart, to me It mean total submission to Mary.
The title say pray to, not asking Mary pray for, also Mary is human, how she hear billion catholic pray to or ask her to pray for
The title say pray to, not asking Mary pray for, also Mary is human, how she hear billion catholic pray to or ask her to pray for
The Prayer of Submission to MaryMadah Bakti, 1991, No. 52
Santa Maria, the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, you are the glorious Queen of the world. be you queen of us all. Show us the way to holiness and guide us not to get lost.
Master our minds, that we may seek only the right.
Strengthen our will, so we just want the good.
Master our hearts, that we may love one another as brothers.
Take care of each of us and the whole family.
Master the whole community, all nations and the great men of the world.
May you be the ropes of all of them in a firm union.
Master the whole human race.
Pray the path of faith for those who have not known your Son, Jesus.
Help all nations unite, live in harmony and peace.
Nourish all mankind, especially those who are persecuted and persecuted.
Resist them in oppression and shine them in darkness, in order to remain faithful to Jesus, your Son.
Please submit all our requests to your Son, the Royal Monarch of peace, where every prayer of petition is granted, every burden of the heart is lightened and all weaknesses healed.
may those who know His power and put His hope in Him. at times see the splendor of your Son's kingdom, which with the Father and the Holy Spirit lives and reigns, now and throughout time. Amen
Santa Maria, the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, you are the glorious Queen of the world. be you queen of us all. Show us the way to holiness and guide us not to get lost.
Master our minds, that we may seek only the right.
Strengthen our will, so we just want the good.
Master our hearts, that we may love one another as brothers.
Take care of each of us and the whole family.
Master the whole community, all nations and the great men of the world.
May you be the ropes of all of them in a firm union.
Master the whole human race.
Pray the path of faith for those who have not known your Son, Jesus.
Help all nations unite, live in harmony and peace.
Nourish all mankind, especially those who are persecuted and persecuted.
Resist them in oppression and shine them in darkness, in order to remain faithful to Jesus, your Son.
Please submit all our requests to your Son, the Royal Monarch of peace, where every prayer of petition is granted, every burden of the heart is lightened and all weaknesses healed.
may those who know His power and put His hope in Him. at times see the splendor of your Son's kingdom, which with the Father and the Holy Spirit lives and reigns, now and throughout time. Amen
Acts 16:30-31 30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
I may be in the minority but I believe many catholics are saved just as many church of Christ members are saved. Though I disagree with both doctrines it is Jesus who saves and He can save catholics and anyone else He chooses.
Isaiah 55:11
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
I may be in the minority but I believe many catholics are saved just as many church of Christ members are saved. Though I disagree with both doctrines it is Jesus who saves and He can save catholics and anyone else He chooses.
Isaiah 55:11
“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper
in the thing whereto I sent it.”
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Only God knows who are saved and who are lost. For centuries the Catholic Church was the only church most people could be part of. Before the reformation unless you were a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church you had no choice but to be Catholic. To make a sweeping claim that being Catholic is unchristian condemns millions of people to hell. There are many none Catholic Christians that are suspect. saying the correct doctrines and going through the motions doesnt make you Christian
its whats in a persons heart that counts.
its whats in a persons heart that counts.
It is not about church dogmas but about biblical doctrine. Catholics are very religious because of Catholic dogma but they are deceived by their church. Grace is not received by sacraments. There is no special saving grace in the eucharist you so quaintly put it. You no doubt receive the Catholic teaching of transubstantiation.
Jesus never taught what the Catholic church teaches. The church that Jesus is building is not an organization but it is a living organism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus never taught what the Catholic church teaches. The church that Jesus is building is not an organization but it is a living organism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Catholic preach false gospel
https://www.catholiccompany.com/content/How-to-use-the-Scapular.cfm
catholic teach If they use scapular they Will not suffer from eternal fire. It is big astray
https://www.catholiccompany.com/content/How-to-use-the-Scapular.cfm
catholic teach If they use scapular they Will not suffer from eternal fire. It is big astray