Trying to understand
- Thread starter TrustingGod4life
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You cannot teach what you do not believe. It's just a statement of fact from observation. Believers start with literal and go to figurative when the scripture does not lend itself to literal interpretation. To go immediately to figurative is to skirt the scripture because you do not want to believe it is literal. Discipleship.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not from the beginning of the world to this time, nor shall be. Matt.24:21
This verse and this chapter have absolutely nothing to do with the second coming of Christ. This prophecy ("burden")is all about Egypt.
No, that is not what it says. Try reading it again, and see if you can see what appeared.
D
Depleted
Guest
Willie did! (And updated a tad bit more than I would have, given my words are usually from the 60s and 70s. lol)
Thanks, Roger, but I am fully aware of the difference between the rapture and Christ's return to earth at the end of the trib.
I believe in a pre-trib rapture, as you do.
You are referring to this:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
But you are ignoring this:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
The "clouds" which accompany Christ at His second coming are metaphorical. When He is surrounded by multitudes of saints and angels -- all dressed in white and radiating light -- they will give the appearance of clouds. Actual clouds are found only in the first (atmospheric) heaven. But these "clouds" come from the third (God's) Heaven, and are saints and angels.
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 14,15).
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (2 Thess 1:7-10).
Just wanted to clear up that I don't think Isaiah 19:1 is about Jesus, but, it does show that the Lord is depicted as riding on a cloud to pass judgement just as Jesus will do when He returns and that to me shows Jesus' deity.
How can the clouds be metaphorical when He will come from heaven and that's where clouds are. Matt.24:30 says He will come in the clouds of heaven.
D
Depleted
Guest
That's because I gave a taste of what happened. It took 200 years. Go ahead. Do the research. The stars did seem to fall. There was a whole lot of shaking going on. You're trying to update something that was said to the very people who needed those words at the right time.
Imagine the horror of Nero's decree. If you were in that empire, (and all of Europe, the western half of Asia, and the northern part of Africa was all under Roman rule), imagine what you would think and feel as a believer.
My immediate thought would have been, "Are you nuts? I may believe in the Lord, but I don't have to let anyone know that, if not knowing that would save my life and the lives of my family." But that wasn't God's plan. He did want us to go out and tell the good news. How could we possibly survive in such times?
So, Jesus told what was going to happen, so they'd know he knew it ahead of time. And John had his revelation when all hell broke loose to that world. It was to encourage those people at that time.
Get real. If it happened like that now, don't you think God would owe us more revelation? AND, if he did, and he did give it, then here's a question for you: Doesn't that make the Bible all about us, instead of all about God?
God's revelation is complete. The only thing that hasn't happened yet is Jesus has not returned. That just means he hasn't saved all he plans to save.
Stop buying the bologna being served to you and do your own research. I've said a bunch of "pastors" taught me a boatload of hooey, so then I had to relearn. Way past time for you to do your own learning. As it stands now, the best you could give a woman in fear of what you're teaching is
That was nothing to go on. And why? Because you still aren't ready for your dystopian future yourself, and your dystopian future is nothing short of what all dystopian is -- fiction. John 3:16 doesn't even say a thing about "accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior." At 69 years old, you should at least know that much.
Time to do your homework. You've got a lot of catching up to do.
D
Depleted
Guest
He's really not right. Remember I told you there were about a dozen views of the End Times? Yeah. Rapture shows up a few times. Do you have a concordance? Because, if you do, this is a study that won't take you the time of the baby's nap to do. (You are free to postpone this until you don't need a nap yourself. lol) The word "rapture" comes from the Latin verb "rapturo." That is translated to "caught up" in English. Do a word study from your concordance for "caught up" in the NT. It shows up only four times. Just read the verses the phrases is included in. The context of what's going on when the word is used.
And when you're done seeing the context, ask yourself, if the rapture is even biblical. (It's not. But I want you to do the work, so you can see why it's not.)
If you are saved and are trusting in Christ why be obsessed with a tribulation that may not happen in your lifetime and that in any case is beyond our control. Jesus told his disciples that he would never leave them or forsake them. Whatever the future hold for us all we are in his hands. Fear comes from the devil. Perfect love casts out fear.
Where do you go to church? You are really rude and snarky. Go away, I want nothing to do with you.
Now for the next lesson (since you are asking to be taught). Go to your concordance (Yes, you can use Google) and discover what the "coming of God (Jesus is God) on the clouds" (or "on a cloud") historically and prophetically stands for. (Spoiler Hint: It is JUDGEMENT....... and not of the world, but of cities, nations, peoples, and religious systems. [those are all "Stars and Moons", etc.)
JUST AS LYNN IS TRYING TO DO, I AM TRYING TO SHOW YOU THAT THIS IS THE WAY YOU LEARN..... NOT BY SOMEONE JUST GIVING YOU ANSWERS TO A QUESTION.