Revelation 14:4

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Feb 7, 2015
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#61
Hi Willie T,

I have wondered if it refers to people who have been persecuted/tortured for their
faith, who did not defile themselves by throwing aside their first love of Jesus.

Maybe Steven as an example or even those who Paul persecuted.
Peter tradionally was crucified upside down etc.

Then there are verses like these.


Revelation 20:4-5 NKJV
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed
to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their
witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast
or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their
hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years
were finished. This is the first resurrection.




I’ve also seen comments that they are the “first fruits” who evangelised
and brought the multitude to Christ spreading the word.
You seem to be right on track!
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#62
You MUST be able to see that this was never talking about the sex act. This is about remaining pure in their relationship (marriage to the Lamb), and not chasing after false religions.
Absolutely. It is a spiritual revelation about spiritual relationship.

I Corinthinas 2:14 "But the natural (carnal, intellectual, philosophical, theological) man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

The Lord only reveals Himself to us by His Spirit in us.
 

Ezekiel8

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2017
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#63
You MUST be able to see that this was never talking about the sex act. This is about remaining pure in their relationship (marriage to the Lamb), and not chasing after false religions.
Lol if you're married you're not a virgin man, that's all there is to it. The Bible means what it says, especially the book of Revelation when one considers that last chapter.

If you are not a virgin male then you're not one of 144,000, like sorry, it's just written that way, I didn't write it, but you can still be resurrected. I mean in another sense looking at what Paul says about sanctifying of the spouses and how women are saved in childbirth, that's a pretty nice reward if I may say so. You still get to be a valiant hero saving your pretty princess which is pretty epic, but let the male virgins get their reward too.
 

Ezekiel8

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2017
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#64
Absolutely. It is a spiritual revelation about spiritual relationship.

I Corinthinas 2:14 "But the natural (carnal, intellectual, philosophical, theological) man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

The Lord only reveals Himself to us by His Spirit in us.
1 Corinthians 7 says the married are worldly and the unmarried focus on the things of God. That's what it says, that's just more proof. What do you think carnality is?
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
#65
Has anyone mentioned they are selected from the 12 hebrew tribes?

Ask someone thinking they are that group what tribe they are
 

Ezekiel8

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2017
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#66
Has anyone mentioned they are selected from the 12 hebrew tribes?

Ask someone thinking they are that group what tribe they are
Yes in a manner of speaking, posthuman brought this goodly point up yesterday.

It is kinda interesting to think what tribe one might belong to. I suppose go by the personality traits, both the bad and good in the Bible, but I could be wrong about that too. Personally, I hope for Judah, Judah's personal story and the story of his offspring just really resonates with me, both the bad and good.
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#67
1 Corinthians 7 says the married are worldly and the unmarried focus on the things of God. That's what it says, that's just more proof. What do you think carnality is?
No, dearheart that's not what it says. Again, we can't fit God's eternal reality into worldly (temporal) terms. Don't lean on your own understanding. There is no flesh that can glory in God's sight, young brother. Remember? Whether married or unmarried, flesh is flesh. That's the dead man. Just because folks are virgins, doesn't make them not carnal. That's pure silliness.

We are crucified with Christ, all of us, virgin or not. It's no longer we ourselves who live, but Christ living in us. The only life that is real for us now is through the faith of the Son of God who loves us and died for us.

Jesus gets all the glory, we get Him. Our reward, our inheritance, our joy is Christ Himself. Every time we take our eyes off of Jesus Christ and look at oursleves for truth, we are blind.
 

Ezekiel8

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2017
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#68
No, dearheart that's not what it says. Again, we can't fit God's eternal reality into worldly (temporal) terms. Don't lean on your own understanding. There is no flesh that can glory in God's sight, young brother. Remember? Whether married or unmarried, flesh is flesh. That's the dead man. Just because folks are virgins, doesn't make them not carnal. That's pure silliness.

We are crucified with Christ, all of us, virgin or not. It's no longer we ourselves who live, but Christ living in us. The only life that is real for us now is through the faith of the Son of God who loves us and died for us.

Jesus gets all the glory, we get Him. Our reward, our inheritance, our joy is Christ Himself. Every time we take our eyes off of Jesus Christ and look at oursleves for truth, we are blind.
You need to read the Bible some more instead of trying to wrest its meanings away. The Bible is very literal, you either believe what it says, or you don't.

Everyone will indeed be resurrected, and we are indeed God's inheritance, but it says straight up in Revelation 14:4 that 144,000 that they are virgins. Like do I have to really explain what a virgin is? I mean this almost silly. Do I have to explain what Paul says in total clarity in 1 Corinthians 7?

Like sorry lady, you're not oneo f the 144,000, you're not. You're not a virgin and you're not a man, you're not one of the 144,000, but you might be saved in child-bearing it is written in 1 Timothy 2.
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#69
Oops! How'd I get in here?! :p

 
Feb 7, 2015
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#70
You need to read the Bible some more instead of trying to wrest its meanings away. The Bible is very literal, you either believe what it says, or you don't.

Everyone will indeed be resurrected, and we are indeed God's inheritance, but it says straight up in Revelation 14:4 that 144,000 that they are virgins. Like do I have to really explain what a virgin is? I mean this almost silly. Do I have to explain what Paul says in total clarity in 1 Corinthians 7?

Like sorry lady, you're not oneo f the 144,000, you're not. You're not a virgin and you're not a man, you're not one of the 144,000, but you might be saved in child-bearing it is written in 1 Timothy 2.
Ah, so sad to be so limited in understanding. But, you have time to learn, so there's hope you can still be productive.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#71

there is an alternative position, that the 144,000 are the great multitude that no man can number.
I believe they are two different groups..

The 144,000 are innocents from the 12 tribes of Israel who where not in need of cleaning..
The great mulitiude which no man could number are from all the nations and are washed by the blood of the lamb.. Meaning they where not innocents but forgiven Christians..

Revelation 7: KJV
{9} After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; {10} And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. {11} And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, {12} Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. {13} And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? {14} And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
 

Ezekiel8

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2017
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#72
Ah, so sad to be so limited in understanding. But, you have time to learn, so there's hope you can still be productive.
Lol it seems I have to teach you. I mean dang, I have to give you guys the birds and the bees talk even!
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#73
Lol it seems I have to teach you. I mean dang, I have to give you guys the birds and the bees talk even!
Think about it. Do you honestly think Jesus qualifies men on whether or not they have gotten their joy stick slippery? No, He looks at and cares about the heart.
 

Ezekiel8

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2017
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#74
Think about it. Do you honestly think Jesus qualifies men on whether or not they have gotten their joy stick slippery? No, He looks at and cares about the heart.
Lol I like that turn of phrase! Anyways, again, you can still be saved, being a virgin or not doesn't nullify nor grant your ultimate salvation. The 144,000 are simply special, they get a special reward. It says point blank they are virgins. Be a lil logical here, you are worldly, the married are worldly, you got your reward all ready. A wife is a gift! Just the same that honor given to the 144,000 male virgins is a gift. There's different gifts!
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#77

there is an alternative position, that the 144,000 are the great multitude that no man can number.
The obvious point would be that's an awfully specific number for an unknown quantify that can be neither a number nor specific.


And just for the record, I have 426 fence posts which no man can number.
 

Ezekiel8

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2017
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#78
The obvious point would be that's an awfully specific number for an unknown quantify that can be neither a number nor specific.


And just for the record, I have 426 fence posts which no man can number.
Lol have you considered the great innumerable multitude is just the rest of the saints, apart from the 144,000?

Consider the first four words of verse 9.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#79
Hey Dcon,

The prophecy regarding Rachel weeping for her children is referring to when Herod slaughtered all of the male children in and around Bethlehem in an attempt to kill Jesus, which has been fulfilled. Of course as we all know, an angel warned Joseph in a dream to take Mary and Jesus to Egypt prior to that event to keep him safe.

Regarding the 144,000 which is a future group who come out unbelieving Israel, these have nothing to do with Rachel weeping for her children and should not even be compared. As I stated previously, the scripture says "these are those who did not defile themselves with women," which demonstrates the 144,000 as being adult males as those keeping themselves from sexual immorality. For there would be no need to make that claim regarding children.
Yeah I know.......
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#80
The 144,000 are innocents from the 12 tribes of Israel who where not in need of cleaning..
The great mulitiude which no man could number are from all the nations and are washed by the blood of the lamb.. Meaning they where not innocents but forgiven Christians..

so 144,000 Israelites who have no need of a Saviour? :confused: