Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

Studyman · Dec 29, 2017

First of all Jesus created these instructions for us, not Moses. Jesus followed the instructions He created for man and showed us the way.

It is my heart felt goal and intent to honor Jesus with obedience to His instruction. Right now I am not transgressing His Commandments. I have wickedness in me, but it has no dominion over me especially on His Holy Sabbath. I am not perfect, but I look forward to this calling proving what is that acceptable and perfect Will of God.

One thing I know for sure, He doesn’t want me to reject His Word and create my own Jesus, my own High Days, my own Salvation. And why on earth would I want to do such things given all He has done for me.

But all this has nothing to do with your statement that Paul teaches God’s laws are abolished. That is simply not true.

Magenta · Dec 29, 2017

lightbearer said:

I wonder about Isaac! Letting dear old dad tie him up and putting him on the pyre...

Lynx · Dec 29, 2017

Magenta said:

Yes? You called? My name is Isaac.

Actually every time the preacher hits on that story I get edgy...

jaybird88 · Dec 29, 2017

Marcelo said:

how is it different?

jaybird88 · Dec 29, 2017

Magenta said:

Magenta we always knew you were an alien. Duhh.

lightbearer · Dec 29, 2017

Magenta said:

He had the Faith too!

Marcelo · Dec 29, 2017

Studyman said:

I see your heart is turned to God! We disagree on some points of doctrine, but more important is that we believe in the same God.

I do my best to correctly interpret Scriptures and if I'm wrong God will forgive me because He knows I am sincere.

47 And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating,will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

Adstar · Dec 29, 2017

Dude653 said:

In the eternal Point of View there is no difference between men and woman who are in Christ.. Both woman and men are valued equally to God in Eternity..

But on earth men and woman in their current forms play different roles and have different positions..

Two different realities.. Two different teachings to suit the two different realities.. Zero contradictions...

Zmouth · Dec 29, 2017

jaybird88 said:

How do you know that what someone is saying is different that what Jesus taught? From the scriptures?

In John 8:12 it is written that Jesus said "I am the light of the world, he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life." Yet do you think that those who are taught by Jesus could stumble considering what is written in John 11:9 "If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world." That is why they would ignore what anyone walking in the night would say since they are walking by faith and faith comes by hearing. The difference is found in Matthew 10:27.

If we say that we have fellowship with him,
and walk in darkness,
we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:6.

Karraster · Dec 30, 2017

Zmouth said:

The difference is Matt 10:27?

[SUP]Matthew 10:27 [/SUP]

What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

OK, so this was Jesus speaking to the 12 before sending them out to the "lost sheep of the House of Israel, and here, (same chapter) He promises to join them,~

Matthew 10:[SUP]23 [/SUP]But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Then at the end of His ministry, at His trial He said:

John 18:20 “I have spoken openly to the world,” Jesus replied. “I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret. 21 Why question me? Ask those who heard me. Surely they know what I said.”

______
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying Jesus preached 2 different messages? Using Matthew 10:27 as proof?

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Fact is Yahshua/Jesus sent His disciples to teach HIS DOCTRINE to all nations/Gentiles:

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 28:19-20, “Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit, and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit. Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”[/FONT]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]nations” is word #G1484 - ethnos: a race, a nation, pl. the nations (as distinct from Isr.), Original Word: ἔθνος, ους, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: ethnos, Phonetic Spelling: (eth'-nos), Short Definition: a race, people, the Gentiles, Definition: a race, people, nation; the nations, heathen world, Gentiles.

[/FONT]

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

Hizikyah said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Paul says Peter was sent to the Jews:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:7-8, “In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised. For the one who worked through Peter by making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me by sending me to the Gentiles.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]However Peter says he was sent to the Gentiles:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Timothy 2:7, "For this reason I was appointed to be an announcer, an apostle, and a faithful and true teacher of the gentiles. I am telling you the truth. I am not lying."[/FONT]

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."[/FONT]

Marcelo · Dec 30, 2017

Question: "Was the Apostle Paul actually a false prophet?"
www.gotquestions.org/apostle-Paul-false-prophet.html

Answer: The theory that the apostle Paul was a false prophet and not a true follower of Christ is usually put forth by those of the Hebrew roots movement persuasion, among others.

They believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, but Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39).

Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible.

But Paul’s apostolic authority has been well documented in Scripture, beginning with his dramatic Damascus Road experience which changed him from a Christ-hating persecutor of Christians to the foremost spokesman for the faith. His astonishing change of heart is one of the clearest indications of his anointing by the Lord Jesus Himself.

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

Marcelo · Dec 30, 2017

Hizikyah said:

But Paul says we are not under the Law! Do you think he was a false apostle?

Embankment · Dec 30, 2017

Marcelo said:

Key words, until all is perfected.. Key fact, Jesus perfected them!

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

Marcelo said:

I think you twist Paul's words:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”[/FONT]

Also I think Paul was 1. not the Messiah, therefore not "the one we must hear and obey" 2. Human and therefore imperfect 3. Paul did make mistakes, this being an example of his old pharisee like thinking showing itself:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Philippians 2:6, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:28, "You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."[/FONT]

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

Embankment said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

"[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Unless heaven and earth passes away[/FONT]"

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, New Yerusalem (YHWH Shammah), coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”[/FONT]

This is the perfection of all things, it happens after the new heaven and new earth:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:4-8 And YHWH will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away. And He Who sat upon the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me: Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me: It is done! I am Aleph and Tau, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and worshipers of false gods, and all liars, will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”[/FONT]

notuptome · Dec 30, 2017

lightbearer said:

Abraham lived in a culture when child sacrifice was normal and expected form of worship.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

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