GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[Hizikyah]

You do know that each 'day' was an epoch of several thousand years don't you?

Of creation? It is possible but not expressely written.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2Peter/Kepha 3:8, “But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

This could be literal or it could be since YHWH is eternal 1,000,000 years is as the blink of an eye. Also it is more likely that the creation week is an actual week:

the term "evening and there came to be morning, the "xxxxxxx" day" shows actual days

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
Genesis 1:1-31,



1:1, "In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth."


1:2, "And the earth came to bea formless and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Elohim was moving on the face of the waters.


1:3, "And Elohim said, “Let light come to be,” and light came to be."


1:4, "And Elohim saw the light, that it was good. And Elohim separated the light from the darkness."


1:5, "And Elohim called the light ‘day’ and the darkness He called ‘night.’ And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, one day."


1:6, "And Elohim said, “Let an expanse come to be in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”


1:7, "And Elohim made the expanse, and separated the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse. And it came to be so."


1:8, "And Elohim called the expanse ‘heavens.’ And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the second day."


1:9, "And Elohim said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it came to be so."


1:10, "And Elohim called the dry land ‘earth,’ and the collection of the waters He called ‘seas.’ And Elohim saw that it was good."


1:11, "And Elohim said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the plant that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth.” And it came to be so."


1:12, "And the earth brought forth grass, the plant that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And Elohim saw that it was good."


1:13, "And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the third day."



1:14, "And Elohim said, “Let lights come to be in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and appointed times, and for days and years,"


1:15, "and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth.” And it came to be so."


1:16, "And Elohim made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night, and the stars."


1:17, "And Elohim set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,"


1:18, "and to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And Elohim saw that it was good."


1:19, "And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the fourth day."


1:20, "And Elohim said, “Let the waters teem with shoals of living beings, and let birds fly above the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.”


1:21, "And Elohim created great sea creatures and every living being that moves, with which the waters teemed, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And Elohim saw that it was good."


1:22, "And Elohim blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and increase, and fill the waters in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”


1:23, "And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the fifth day."


1:24, "And Elohim said, “Let the earth bring forth the living being according to its kind: livestock and creeping creatures and beasts of the earth, according to its kind.” And it came to be so."


1:25, "And Elohim made the beast of the earth according to its kind, livestock according to its kind, and all that creep on the earth according to its kind. And Elohim saw that it was good."


1:26, "And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the livestock, and over all the earth and over all the creeping creatures that creep on the ground.”


1:27, "And Elohim created the man in His image, in the image of Elohim He created him – male and female He created them."


1:28, "And Elohim blessed them, and Elohim said to them, “Be fruitful and increase, and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over all creeping creatures on the earth.”


1:29, "And Elohim said, “See, I have given you every plant that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed, to you it is for food."


1:30, "“And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to every creeping creature on the earth, in which there is a living being, every green plant is for food.” And it came to be so."


1:31, "And Elohim saw all that He had made, and see, it was very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the sixth day."


Genesis 2:3-7,


2:3, "And Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which Elohim in creating had made."


2:4, "These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that יהוה Elohim made earth and heavens."

 

[Hizikyah]

Psalm 89:26-37, “...My covenant will stand fast withHim..."My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips.."

No, He changed the covenant!!!!

Also, 99% of the world population was never under the old covenant, anyway.

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."



Hebrews 7:13, “For He of whom this is said belongs to another tribe, from which no one had attended at the Altar. For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood.”


Hebrews 4:14-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of YHWH, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."


Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."


Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Aḇraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”



Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”


Psalm 89:26-37, “He will call out to Me; ‘You are My Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of My salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast withHim. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky.”



"My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips"

 

[PS]

The Jewish calendar has been in continuous use since before the Exodus. There have been two well documented adjustments.
The Gregorian Calendar has been in use since 1582 and has had 4 adjustments which have been equally well documented.
If there is nonsense it is coming from you.

Line up the Jewish calendar with Genesis 1:2.

And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. (Gen 1:2 MKJV)

 

[Studyman]

No, He changed the covenant!!!!

Also, 99% of the world population was never under the old covenant, anyway.

Yes, He changed the Covenant.

Old Covenant= We learn about God and His Instructions through the Levite Priests.

Old Covenant= Our sins are cleansed by Levites who performed various sacrificial, ceremonial "Works and Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins.

New Covenant= God writes God's Instructions directly on our hearts, no more Levite priests to filter God's Word.

New Covenant- Our sin's are forgiven by Jesus directly as He shed His Blood for us. No more Levitical Priesthood "works and Deeds of the Law" for remission and justification of sins.

The definition of sin has not changed, only the way God's Laws are administered, and the way our sin's are forgiven.

Nothing else was changed or abolished.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[MarcR]

Hi MMD,

It would be nice if you had something original to contribute rather then cutting and pasting website articles that have no basis in the Word of God.

If you keep looking to the teachings and traditions of men how can you know the Word of God? If you turn away from God how will you not be carried away with every wind of doctrine and be lead away to believe lies?

Let me make this clear. I follow no man or man made teachings. I follow only the Word of God. I stand only on the Word of God. It is on the Word of God we stand or fall and it is ONLY to the Word of God that I point all to find him who LOVES all.

You cut and paste and follow the teachings of men from the word of websites as your guide to truth.

Now what is the difference between someone following the person your website is talking about and you who are following the teachings from the person who has written the website? Are you not following the word of website as your belief and guide? So what you are really saying is dont believe them believe me and follow what this guy says.

How can you or anyone KNOW who is telling the truth if they do not KNOW the Word of God for themselves?

You point all to the word of website and the teachings of men because you do not KNOW the Word of God. If you knew God's Word you would point all to the Word of God because it is only in the Word of God that anyone can find Jesus.

It is only Jesus who can reveal his truth through His Spirit and set all free to LOVE and follow him. Should you not point all to God's Word instead of the teachings of men that promote braking the Commandments of God?

Let's have a look at what your website says and compare it with the scritpures..........



Who does God's Word describe as being His people in the last days.............

Revelation 12
17, And the dragon <Devil> was wroth with the woman,<Church> and went to make war with the remnant of her seed <Minority> , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The DEVIL was angry with GOD'S CHURCH and went to make WAR with a MINORITY of her decendence which KEEP the COMMANDMENTS of GOD and have the TESTIMONY of JESUS CHRIST.

So what is the TESTIMONY OF JESUS?

links to.....

Revelation 19
10, And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.

links to.....

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus.

links to.....

Revelation 22
14, BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Let's put it all together........

1. God's Word says that his true people are described as those who who are a remnant of the true Church, they KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and they have THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS.

2, Letting the scriptures interpret themselves we see that the TESTIMONY of Jesus is the SPIRIT of PROPHECY.

3. God's people who KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD have the FAITH of Jesus

4. It is ONLY THESE people that KEEP the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD that are BLESSED with ETERNAL LIFE and Enter into the CITY of GOD.

These are those who BELIEVE His Word and through FAITH that works by LOVE keep all the commandments of God through Faith in Jesus (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-9; James 2:8-12; Rev 12:17; 14:12: 22:14).

Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW him are NOT his people and do not KNOW HIM or trust in HIM for salvation because the FRUIT of their FAITH is not the OBEDIENCE of LOVE (James 2:18; 20; 27; 1 John 3:6-8).

If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who is calling you. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) if you break ANY one of them you stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek him in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS. Please read; James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:6-8; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12.

If your tree does not bear the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE is will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:13-23)

I am sharing God's Word with you because of LOVE. God's Word is not Heresy it is the Word of God and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it because one day we shall be judged by it (John 12:47-48)

Paul wrote: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. (Rom. 14:5,6)


Where in the chapter or in the whole book of Romans does it even mention God's 4th commandment of the 7th day Sabbath of God's commandment?

If the whole chapter or book of Romans does not even mention God's LAW, the 4th commandment of the 7th day Sabbath of God's LAW why do you think it is talking about God's LAW (10 commandments)?

The simple truth is that the Chapter is not about God's commandment as it is not even mentioned. Let's look at the chapter and see what it is talking about...........

Romans 14
1, Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
2, For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3, Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4, Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6, He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…...............

(6), He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

links to .....

Isaiah 58
5, Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

links to.....

Luke 18
11, The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12, I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…........

Luke 18:12
Twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted sometimes two days a week and also annually in the feasts of Lev 23.

7, For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8, For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9, For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10, But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11, For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12, So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13, Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14, I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean <ceremonially profaned, defiled or unholy> of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean<ceremonially profaned, defiled or unholy>, to him it is unclean.
15, But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

(14) At the time meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1Cor 10
25, Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles ; μάκελλον; makellon; mak'-el-lon Of Latin origin [macellum ]; a butcher's stall, meat market or provision shop: - shambles.

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by the thought of food being offered to idols. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them.

Some points to consider in Romans 14:1-15............

1. The chapter is talking about a number of related topics
2. Overall it is talking about not juding those who are weak in the faith in relation to food connected to days or days dedicated to the Lord and that is all it is talking about.
3. Food connected to days in usually in relation to the annual festivals or fasting connected to weekly or Holy days unto the Lord (Lev 16:29. Num 29:7; Issaiah 58:5; Luke 18:11-12).
4. There is no mention of the Sabbath or God's 4th commandment in this chapter or the entire book of Romans.
5. Romans 14 is not talking about ABOLISHING ANY DAYS but only talking about judging others in relation to food or fasting connected to days dedicated to the LORD and food offered to idols.
6. The Chapter is consistant with all the other writing of Paul in relation to the jewish annual holy days fulfilled in Christ (eg, Colossains 2; Ephesians 2; Galatains 4:10; Hebrews 9:9-15; 10:1-17).
7. Paul's topics is summarised in v17; For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

It is very clear from reading the scriptures that this whole Chapter has nothing whatsoever at all to do with the 4th commandment which is to keep Holy the 7th day Sabbath but is talking about judging others in relation to food connected to holy days and idolatry.



Why would Paul argue for someone to brake God's Commandments? This is against the teachings of Paul and God's Word because transgression of God's LAW is SIN.

Those who practice SIN do not KNOW him who LOVES them because they are still in their SINS. It is SIN that will keep ALL who practice it OUT of the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

Would Paul teach SIN in order to KEEP peace and forsake SALVATION? This is indeed corary to God's WORD and is the teaching of men that brake the commandments of God.



This statement is just simply not true at all. Paul was an advocate for God's LAW (10 Commandments) where it is upheld all through his writings.

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)



Romans 14 has nothing whatsoever at all to do with the 4th commandment which is to keep Holy the 7th day Sabbath but is talking about judging others in relation to food connected to holy days and idolatry. There will always be a dividing wall between BELIEVERS and UNBELIVERS. The DIVIDING wall is called SIN.

God's Word tells us the SIN is the breaking of God's LAW (10 commandments).

It we keep 9 commandments and brake 1 then we stand guilty BEFORE GOD in SIN braking ALL of HIS LAW (James 2:8-12)
Those who practice SIN do not KNOW him who LOVES them because they are still in their SINS.

It is SIN that will keep ALL who practice it OUT of the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

As is was in the days of Noah and Sodom so shall it be in the coming of the Son of man. It was SIN that detroyed the World the first time and it will be SIN that destroys the World the second time choose this day who you will serve tomorrrow may be to la te.

If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who is calling you. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) if you break ANY one of them you stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek him in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS. Please read; James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:6-8; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12.

If your tree does not bear the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE is will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:13-23)

...........................
God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Anything MMD cites is of far better scholarship than anything coming from EG White, who IMO was a silly woman who discovered a way to get attention. I think that the silly women in the late 1960s and early 1970s who got attention by wearing sheer clothing and absent underwear were different only in that they were more honest.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Anything MMD cites is of far better scholarship than anything coming from EG White, who IMO was a silly woman who discovered a way to get attention. I think that the silly women in the late 1960s and early 1970s who got attention by wearing sheer clothing and absent underwear were different only in that they were more honest.

Hello MarcR,

Does this mean you have run out of scripture to contribute to an intelligent discussion of God's Word? It is on the Word of God we stand or fall. If you builld your house on the sand great shall be the fall of it. SIN will keep all who practice it out of God's Kingdom.

Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who is calling them are his people because they hear the voice of him who loves them and is calling them.

These are those who BELIEVE His Word and through FAITH that works by LOVE keep all the commandments of God through Faith in Jesus (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-9; James 2:8-12; Rev 12:17; 14:12: 22:14).

Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW him are NOT his people and do not KNOW HIM or trust in HIM for salvation because the FRUIT of their FAITH is not the OBEDIENCE of LOVE (James 2:18; 20; 27; 1 John 3:6-8).

If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who is calling you. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) if you break ANY one of them you stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek him in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS. Please read; James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:6-8; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12.

If your tree does not bear the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE is will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:13-23)

..................

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it tomorrow may be too late.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[MarcR]

Hello MarcR,

Does this mean you have run out of scripture to contribute to an intelligent discussion of God's Word? It is on the Word of God we stand or fall. If you builld your house on the sand great shall be the fall of it. SIN will keep all who practice it out of God's Kingdom.

Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who is calling them are his people because they hear the voice of him who loves them and is calling them.

These are those who BELIEVE His Word and through FAITH that works by LOVE keep all the commandments of God through Faith in Jesus (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-9; James 2:8-12; Rev 12:17; 14:12: 22:14).

Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW him are NOT his people and do not KNOW HIM or trust in HIM for salvation because the FRUIT of their FAITH is not the OBEDIENCE of LOVE (James 2:18; 20; 27; 1 John 3:6-8).

If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who is calling you. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) if you break ANY one of them you stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek him in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS. Please read; James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:6-8; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12.

If your tree does not bear the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE is will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:13-23)

..................

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it tomorrow may be too late.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

I don't believe followers of EG White are capable of intelligent discussion. They are too fixated on her nonsense to consider the truth.

 

[lightbearer]

Originally Posted by valiant

How sad it is to see that you do not even understand the teaching of Romans.

In chapter 2 he is in the middle of pointing out that ALL have sinned, both Jews who have the law and Gentiles who don't. Men cannot be saved either by obeying the law or doing good. The law judges. It can never save. Their ONLY hope is faith in Christ apart from the law

Originally Posted by lightbearer

Romans is quite the letter. However it is the Faith of Christ not faith in.

Pity you don't know koine Greek otherwise you would know that 'the faith of Christ' (translating the genitive literally) means our faith in Christ. One language does not translate literally into another,
It is not Christ's faith that is in question but our faith in Him.

You have no idea what I know. How about you stop making judgmental comments about people and just post what you think is proof that is contrary to the post to which you are responding. And please let's not flood the thread with continuing this aspect of our conversation.

Your post is conjecture with no basis for your argument. You should of said that in some circumstances depending on the context the genitive can be considered such and such. Then posted proof.

A sentence typically consists of a verb indicating some kind of action, nouns related to them, and a variety of modifiers. The Greek language uses a case system that assigns to each noun its grammatical job in the sentence which would govern the preposition used. The case system consists of four of these grammatical functions, which are assigned to the nouns by means of an inflection system (the use of a suffix). These four functions are: the subject, the source, the scene and the object. They answer to the questions : which one? whence? where? and whither? respectively. The latter three functions are associated with a direction, an association which is the same that governs the use of prepositions. The Genitive case in regards to this directional understanding would be categorized in relation to the question "whence?" Hence the use of the preposition "of".


Genitive (possession, "of"; also origin or separation, "from") The genitive defines, describes, qualifies,restricts, limits. The genitive case may be defined as the case of qualification (or ) and (occasionally) separation.

Mostly, the genitive is often seen as the case of possession or mind you qualification (as in a limitation to a kind). In other words one noun in the genitive case helps to qualify another noun by showing it's point of origin (class or kind). The genitive case has more uses than most other cases, but typically that is what it does but occasionally it denotes a separation.

As was said the most common use of the genitive is to show possession. However it does not necessarily indicate actual, literal ownership.



Shall we take a look at few verses so that we can see how it is to be understood in regards to context?

 

[preacher4truth]

I don't believe followers of EG White are capable of intelligent discussion. They are too fixated on her nonsense to consider the truth.

It is sad to witness. But for the grace of God...?

 

[justpassinthrough]

Hello MarcR,


if you break ANY one of them you stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek him in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS.

..................

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it tomorrow may be too late.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

If you believe that you must keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses, then you are obligated to fulfill it's requirement to put to death all who violate it.


15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:15


If you claim to keep God's word and claim those who do not are guilty of sin, when you yourself do not follow and keep God's word concerning the Sabbath, by putting to death those who violate it, then you are living in sin, and need to repent before God.


Otherwise you will be found as a hypocrite on the Day of Judgement, when each of us are Judged according to our deeds.

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED

Here in plain language the word of God says that He abolished in His flesh, the law of commandments contained in ordinances.


14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16

• having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances

The law of commandments contained in ordinances is Moses law, that was added until the Seed should come.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

• It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come

By saying until, the Holy Spirit is indicating that the law that was added, was do so temporarily, being in place until the Seed should and abolish in His flesh the law contained in ordinances.


Until = Temporary





justpassinthrough

 

[Deade]

If you believe that you must keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses, then you are obligated to fulfill it's requirement to put to death all who violate it.


15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:15


If you claim to keep God's word and claim those who do not are guilty of sin, when you yourself do not follow and keep God's word concerning the Sabbath, by putting to death those who violate it, then you are living in sin, and need to repent before God.


Otherwise you will be found as a hypocrite on the Day of Judgement, when each of us are Judged according to our deeds.







Here in plain language the word of God says that He abolished in His flesh, the law of commandments contained in ordinances.


14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16

• having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances

The law of commandments contained in ordinances is Moses law, that was added until the Seed should come.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

• It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come

By saying until, the Holy Spirit is indicating that the law that was added, was do so temporarily, being in place until the Seed should and abolish in His flesh the law contained in ordinances.


Until = Temporary





justpassinthrough

Hello justpassinthrough,

We are surely under grace. We do not keep the Fourth Commandment by the law of Mosses, but we don't throw it away either. I am not SDA but they called the mark of the beast properly. I do not keep the strict ordinances of any of the 10 Commandments, but I still honor them spiritually.

Yours, Deade

 

[MarcR]

Line up the Jewish calendar with Genesis 1:2.

And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. (Gen 1:2 MKJV)

The Jewish Calendar has absolutely nothing to do with Gen 1:2. It did not exist until nearly 1000 years after the flood.

 

[LoveGodForever]

I don't believe followers of EG White are capable of intelligent discussion. They are too fixated on her nonsense to consider the truth.

God's Word is not nonsense please by all means if you have scripture and there is something you disagree with make your case.

You tried to make a case earlier by responding to a post # 2824 linked sent to someone else and wrote your reply in post # 2836 linked by saying that the scriptures used in my earlier post were not referring to God's 10 Commandments. Then you go on in that same post to try and make out that the post was dishonestly using scripture and my honestly should be questioned.

A response post was then sent to you in post # 2843 linked using scriptures to clearly show you that the verses you throught were NOT referring to God's LAW were indeed talking about the 10 commandments.

Now, instead of apologising for accusing me of being dishonest with the scriptures or using scripture you go on a rant about followers of EGW are not capable of an intelligent discussion and provide not reason for your claims except you say so. Please tell me how this is intelligent discussion?

This is despite me stating many times already that I follow no one except God's Word and only shared God's Word to point out your mistake in the scriptures.

You are not fighting against me my friend, I am only sharing God's Word. It is on the Word of God we stand or fall. It seems you have already fallen.

...................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[stillness]

Gentiles were not under the old covenant but had the opportunity to join.
You make it clear not to join you, so that we don't become judges. You serve as a warning not to be under the law.
You preach the law abolished so that we don't become like you.
"For with the same judgment you judge you will be judged."
“But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.”
Having a grudge against people who don't follow your view is enough to see why the law had to be abolished."
“Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge stands before the door.”
In the new covenant, the new commandment identifies us with Christ in His death: to Love sinners as he loved us.
"A new commandment I give to you, that you Love one another; as i have loved you that you also Love one another." Even the Law preaches Christ, the need of a saviour: we could not be commanded to Love.
"Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of Love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
We don't have a righteousness of our own, we don't have a life of our own, but by the Holy Spirit, poured out on all flesh.
"Whosoever will, let him come and drink of the water of life freely."

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…" [/FONT]

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hebrews 10
26, For if we SIN wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for SINS,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

the fruit.....

Matthew 7
13, Enter ye in at the STRAIT GATE: for WIDE is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to DESTRUCTION, and MANY there be which go in thereat:
14, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.
15, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16, YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17, Even so every good tree bringeth forth GOOD FRUIT; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth EVIL FRUIT.
18, A good tree cannot bring forth EVIL FRUIT, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth GOOD FRUIT.
19, Every tree that bringeth not forth GOOD FRUIT is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20, Wherefore BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM.
21, Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
22, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23, And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FORM ME YOU WHO WORK INIQUITY(SIN)

links to.....

1 John 2
3, AND HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
4, He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

links to.....

1 John 3
3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whosoever abideth in him sins not: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that committeth sin is of the devil;

...............

Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who is calling them are his people because they hear the voice of him who loves them and is calling them.

These are those who BELIEVE His Word and through FAITH that works by LOVE keep all the commandments of God through Faith in Jesus (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-9; James 2:8-12; Rev 12:17; 14:12: 22:14).

Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW him are NOT his people and do not KNOW HIM or trust in HIM for salvation because the FRUIT of their FAITH is not the OBEDIENCE of LOVE (James 2:18; 20; 27; 1 John 3:6-8).

If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who is calling you. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) if you break ANY one of them you stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek him in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS. Please read; James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:6-8; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12.

If your tree does not bear the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE is will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:13-23)

Those practicing SIN do NOT KNOW him who is calling them. Those who are ignorant God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth is come calls all men everywhere to repent for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at hand.

For if we SIN wilfully after that we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remaineth no more sacrifice for SINS, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

...........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[stillness]

Can those under the old covenant law obey the New commandment, I suppose if they know they fail under the law, they can have compassion on those who fail. "The merciful shall obtain mercy." "Her sins witch are many are forgiven for she loved much."
The religious leaders under the old covenant did not see their failure, did not see Jesus and because they said they see, "Their sin remained"
And "The prostitutes and sinners enter the kingdom of God before you." You who think you can fulfil the law. Yes "We uphold the law," it exposes those who think it can be fulfilled by sinners.

 

[Studyman]

Can those under the old covenant law obey the New commandment, I suppose if they know they fail under the law, they can have compassion on those who fail. "The merciful shall obtain mercy." "Her sins witch are many are forgiven for she loved much."
The religious leaders under the old covenant did not see their failure, did not see Jesus and because they said they see, "Their sin remained"
And "The prostitutes and sinners enter the kingdom of God before you." You who think you can fulfil the law. Yes "We uphold the law," it exposes those who think it can be fulfilled by sinners.

The New Covenant had nothing to do with the definition of sin, rather, a New Priesthood. It deals with 2 things.

#1. How God's Laws are administered. (No more Levite Scribes to read us the Word, Jesus will write God's Laws directly on our hearts.

#2. The manner in which sins are forgiven. (No more Levites to perform Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial, "Works or deeds of the Law" for remission of sins. Jesus forgives our sins with His Blood.

The New Covenant had nothing to do with re-writing or amending God's Laws. The teaching that is has is a great deception.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Can those under the old covenant law obey the New commandment, I suppose if they know they fail under the law, they can have compassion on those who fail. "The merciful shall obtain mercy." "Her sins witch are many are forgiven for she loved much."
The religious leaders under the old covenant did not see their failure, did not see Jesus and because they said they see, "Their sin remained"
And "The prostitutes and sinners enter the kingdom of God before you." You who think you can fulfil the law. Yes "We uphold the law," it exposes those who think it can be fulfilled by sinners.

Hello stillness,

You seem mistaken, we are under the NEW Covenant of God's LAW written on the heart to LOVE through FAITH for those who BELIEVE.

Those practicing SIN, however, do NOT KNOW him who is calling them. Those who are ignorant God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth is come calls all men everywhere to repent for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at hand.

God is calling all that have ears to hear to come out and worship him in Spirit and in truth.

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) if you break ANY one of them you stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek him in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS. Please read; James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:6-8; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12.

For if we SIN wilfully after that we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remaineth no more sacrifice for SINS, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

God is calling all who hear his voice to FOLLOW him. He wants a closer walk with you.

...............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[Harkins]

Wow this is a lengthy thread. I read the opening post. It sounds like an argument a 7th day Adventist would make.

While I agree with the principle of "let Scripture interpret Scripture", this can only be honestly applied when the immediate context is taken into consideration, else what happens is that ideas are removed and seen through the lens of other words to give them their meaning. This is fine if that interpretation expounds upon the contextual passages, giving them a fuller depth or meaning, but it is worthless if the interpretation does not fit.

The body of text that is Colossians 2 is clear in that it is making a comparison between something that is seen as worthless, vain, a shadow, practiced by men who worship angels etc with something that is better and supersedes it. These things which include "principalities and powers" are "triumphed over" by the Cross, according to the author.

The critical passage in question (Colossians 2:16) must be seen in this context without removing it through interpretation.

To the author, the things mentioned are done away with - Sabbath, New Moons, holy days, discernment on food and drink. That is an honest reading of the passage and with regard to at least part of it, is backed up by the same author elsewhere (for example 1 Timothy 4 where Paul says all meat is fine and nothing to be refused)

People are going to argue this until the return of Christ, but to me it's a simple question of whether you believe it or not.

If you do, it's intellectual honesty with regards to Paul's writings. But it presents problems with regards to many OT writings and even of Christ who not only healed on Sabbath but said His followers would be keeping it after He was gone (Matthew 24:20)

If you don't believe it, you enjoy the harmony with many OT writings, Christ, but doubt Paul.