GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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posthuman

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If you do, it's intellectual honesty with regards to Paul's writings. But it presents problems with regards to many OT writings and even of Christ who not only healed on Sabbath but said His followers would be keeping it after He was gone (Matthew 24:20)
there is sound reason to believe that Matthew 24:20 is with direct reference to the siege and destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. the context of Matthew 24:20 itself - flee Jerusalem without hesitation and do not go back, and pray that you don't have to do this during winter or on a sabbath day - is a specific hope that flight ((specifically)) from Jerusalem will not be necessary to undertake when travel is difficult ((see v. 19 - how much more difficult for pregnant/nursing mothers!)).

so the verse you cited isn't indicating "His followers" will be keeping sabbath so much as it is indicating that sabbath restrictions will be observed in and around Jerusalem, specifically: indeed if it is "His followers" keeping sabbath, then He is telling them that if the sabbath is the day they must flee Jerusalem, to break the travel restrictions of sabbath ((according to how the Law says to keep sabbath)). if one argues, well that's why we should pray it doesn't take place on sabbath, because then we would have to break the Law or we would have to remain and be killed, in order to keep the Law, then why is He comparing it to fleeing in winter? travelling during winter breaks no Law. the premise then is "difficulty in travel" not in conflicting with sabbath observance laws.
 

stillness

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Walk trough the valley
Jesus addressed the religious leaders under the law who opposed Him, "You are of your father the devil."
I would not wish or say this to anyone, I don't have that kind of discernment.

But it stands to reason that the beast who thinks to change times and laws is about bringing people back under the law. To lose sight of the Grace of God and His ability to save to the uttermost those who call on Him.
 

Hizikyah

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Jesus addressed the religious leaders under the law...snip
misrepresentation:

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."
 

stillness

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Walk trough the valley
I'm a recovering addict faced with temptation to look for comfort where there in none, my need to satisfy my thirst can only be satisfied by the Holy Spirit who told me: Enter in as a little child and put away your divided spirit.
Interesting that the commandment was not Love God with all your heart... But addressing my need to give up my selfish existence that is competing with God.
"Whoever seeks to save his live will lose it." This also applies to the religious leaders trying to fulfil the law, as well as everyone else building their own kingdom. The religious leaders opposed Jesus because he came against their kingdom.
 

MarcR

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misrepresentation:

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."
I see no misrepresentation; and I don't hesitate to point it out even in people who seem to agree with me.
 

gb9

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I'm a recovering addict faced with temptation to look for comfort where there in none, my need to satisfy my thirst can only be satisfied by the Holy Spirit who told me: Enter in as a little child and put away your divided spirit.
Interesting that the commandment was not Love God with all your heart... But addressing my need to give up my selfish existence that is competing with God.
"Whoever seeks to save his live will lose it." This also applies to the religious leaders trying to fulfil the law, as well as everyone else building their own kingdom. The religious leaders opposed Jesus because he came against their kingdom.
just so you and others will know this- I have asked lovegodfoever multiple times if he believes in the Resurrection. he has yet to give a straight answer. this make me suspect he might not be a true Christian, in my opinion, a true believer in Christ would have no problem saying that they believe in a Resurrected Lord and Savior 25 times a day, he has not once straightly said he believes in it.
 

Hizikyah

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I see no misrepresentation; and I don't hesitate to point it out even in people who seem to agree with me.
that person said the pharisees followed the Law, they di not by the Messiah's own words.

To say they did is in direct contradiction of what He said.

The pharisees followed an altered version of the Law OK, but they did not follow His Law.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Kings 17:19, “Yehuḏah, also, did not guard the commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]their Strength, but walked in the laws of Yisra’yl which they made.”[/FONT]
 
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While I agree with the principle of "let Scripture interpret Scripture", this can only be honestly applied when the immediate context is taken into consideration, else what happens is that ideas are removed and seen through the lens of other words to give them their meaning. This is fine if that interpretation expounds upon the contextual passages, giving them a fuller depth or meaning, but it is worthless if the interpretation does not fit.
Hi Harkins, a very BIG Welcome to you here.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Context is indeed VERY important and must be applied to all bible study. The concept of topical bible study as been around for many years. Using the scriptures to interpret the scrioptures or collecting scripture that discusses a particular topic under the guidence of God's Spirit can reveal wonderful gems from the Word of God.

No one can understand God's Word however unless it is revealed to you personally because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Spiritual things are foolishness to those that do not know God.

As it is written; All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2Tim 3:16).

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little (Isa 28:10)

Ok lets get to it..........

The body of text that is Colossians 2 is clear in that it is making a comparison between something that is seen as worthless, vain, a shadow, practiced by men who worship angels etc with something that is better and supersedes it. These things which include "principalities and powers" are "triumphed over" by the Cross, according to the author. The critical passage in question (Colossians 2:16) must be seen in this context without removing it through interpretation. To the author, the things mentioned are done away with - Sabbath, New Moons, holy days, discernment on food and drink. That is an honest reading of the passage and with regard to at least part of it, is backed up by the same author elsewhere (for example 1 Timothy 4 where Paul says all meat is fine and nothing to be refused)
Ok here is a very good example where CONTEXT is very important in relation to Colossians 2:16-17. Lets have a look why...

Colossians 2:14-17,
14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath(s): 17, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Colossians 2:14
Let’s start with the context of Colossians 2:16-17. The context is verse 14 which is the blotting out (G1813; ἐξαλείφω; exaleiphō; ex-al-i'-fo; means to obliterate; erase; wipe away) the handwriting of ordinances which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to the cross.

The next question we need to consider is what is the handwriting of ordinances that are to be erased and nailed to the cross?

The Greek words used here is handwriting G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written legal document which is combined with ordinance G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law: - decree;

The Greek meaning of handwriting of ordinances in V14 is a hand written legal document or book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. These are the laws referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and are nailed to the cross.

What is the legal written document or book (handwriting of ordinances) that includes the civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws referring to?

There was two sets of laws that were given to God’s people in the Old Testament scriptures.

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments) pointed out what sin was and the penalty of sin which is death. It was never a cure for sin in the Old Testament as well as in the New. It only gives a knowledge of what sin is and righteousness (right doing) (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Ps 119:172).

(2) The laws of Moses was the second set of laws and included all the civil, ceremonial, and ecclesiastical laws. These laws could not tell you what sin was this was the job of God’s Law, however the laws of Moses were the prescriptive cure for sin in the Old Covenant. These laws included all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, sacrificial burnt offerings for sin, annual festivals and earthly sanctuary services for sin. These laws were the cure for sin so the sinner could be made right with God. These where all prophetic in nature, teaching the plan of salvation which pointing to Jesus as the true lamb of God and our great high priest and His Work on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary. (Leviticus 1; 3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Number 6-8; 15; 28-29; Deut 12; 33; Ex 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28)

From the above it can be seen that God’s Law was written on stone and the laws of Moses in a book. God’s Law is forever and only points out what sin is but was never a cure for sin (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23).

The laws of Moses included all the ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws that were the cure for sin with all the sin offerings and earthly Sanctuary services, annual festivals and sin offerings which were prophetic in nature and temporary pointing to the life, death, resurrection of Jesus and his role as the true lamb of God and your great high priest to atone for our sins (John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28). The handwriting of ordinances (ceremonial laws and ordinances written in a book) is referring to the ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses which included the Jewish annual festivals and sin offerings that pointed to Jesus.

Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross?

Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the saviour of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Col 2:14; John 3:16).

Colossians 2:14 is the context of Colossians 2:16-17. The context is that all the ceremonial laws of Moses pointing to the plan of salvation and Jesus have been fulfilled and nailed to the cross and along with our sins, if we accept Jesus as our true Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world (John 1:29). We are no longer under the Old Covenant laws of Moses. These do not include God’s Law which is forever (Ecc 3:14).

Now we have looked at the context of Colossians 2:16-17 by looking at verse 14 above and we know what it actually is that it is the ceremonial laws and sin offerings that are nailed to the cross along with our sins, let’s look at Colossians 2:16-17.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath day(s): 17, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Here is the actual Greek to English translation of Col 2:16-17 verses from the interlinear:

16 Not therefore anyone you let judge in regards to food or in regards to drink or in regards to a feast (or festival) or a new moon or Sabbath(s). 17 which are a shadow of things coming but body

In Col 2:16 the word rendered "holy-day" - ἑορτὴ heortē - in the Greek means a "feast" or "festival;"
Now, notice the key context within Col 2:16-17; No one is to judge you in regards to meat or drink, a feast or festival, or of the New Moon or of sabbath(s).

The Greek word for sabbath used in Col 2:16 G4521; σάββατο; is sabbaton which means to cease from secular labor, stop work, rest. It does not necessarily need to refer to the 7th Day Sabbath commandment. In Leviticus Chapter 23, there is special days within the Jewish annual festivals which are called a Holy convocation. There are special days that can fall on any day of the week. They are not a regular weekly 7th day Sabbath according to God’s Law (Ex 20:8-11) but are a sabbaton (Greek) in that no secular work was allowed and work was to cease and these Holy convocations were days of rest although not a Sabbath from God’s Law (10 commandments) they were a sabbath (sabbaton) as used in the Greek.

Scripture point summary:

1. Blotting out or nailing the handwriting of ordinances to the cross is referring to the ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws of Moses which includes all the sin offerings and laws relating to sin offering that pointed to the plan of salvation and Jesus (v14)
2. Jesus at the cross triumphing over principalities and powers (v 15)
3. No one to Judge you in meat and drink, festivals, new moon of the sabbath(s) (v16). Holy-day in the Greek means a festival and sabbath(s) in the Greek in this verse means sabbaton which simply means to cease from secular work and rest. It does not have to mean a 7th Day Sabbath (Ex 20:8-11)
4. The meat and drink, festivals, new moons or of the sabbath(s) are a shadow of things to come (v17)

Context within Col 2:16-17:
(1) meat or drink (2) feast or festival (3) new moons (4) sabbath(s) (5) Above were shadows of things to come

So the overall context of Col 2:16-17 is in not judging in regards to meat and drink, festivals (feast days), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses (v 14)

Col 2 is talking about the ceremonial laws from Moses which also included the annual festivals of Lev 23; Deut 10; Numb 27 and 28. Now let’s have a look at the Old Testament scriptures to see what Col 2 is talking about. Remember the overall context is in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses that were completed and nailed to the cross. If we can find references to the above context of Col 2:16 it will help us to understand what Col 2:14-17 is talking about because these are all shadows that pointed to Jesus.

Old Testament references to Col 2:16-17; with the same scripture context:

Col 2:16-17,
Let no man therefore judge you in (1) meat, or in drink, or in respect of an (2) feastival, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath(s): Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Eze 45:17-21,
It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the (2) feasts, the (3) new moons, and the (4) Sabbaths, at all the appointed (2) feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

The Greek word for ordinances (I highlighted in the verse above) in this verse is the same word used in Colossians 2:14 that refers to what was nailed to the cross. Paul reveals in Colossians 2:16 that these ordinances had “meat and drink offerings,” “holy feast days,” “monthly new moon festivals” and “yearly sacrificial Sabbaths” that Ezekiel 45:17 ever so plainly reveals that this is what was practiced to make reconciliation for sin. In other words, the sacrificial law, which was part of the Mosaic Law. The Ten Commandments were written in the Ten Commandments while the Mosaic Law was written in the Mosaic Law.

Here is what the Strong's and Thayer dictionaries state on the Greek word dogma for ordinances used in this verse. "ORDINANCE" G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law: - decree; Thayer Ordinance; dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380 rules and requirements of the law of Moses.

As you can see, there is not so much as a hint of the Ten Commandments being mentioned. Strong's effectively labelled it the ceremonial law while the Thayer dictionary was even clearer stating it was the rules and requirements of the law of Moses. The ordinances are also called the Law of Moses. I have a more detailed study on this I will put it up as a thread latter on looking at dogma and Colossains 2:14-17. It would be nice to have some of your input being learned and all.

And here is another example for even more clarity. Before the cross in the Old Covenant there were both the Ten Commandments and the Ordinances as also seen from Luke 1:6 that alone proves they are not the same thing.

Luke 1
6,
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the COMMANDMENTS and ORDINANCES of the Lord blameless.

Hebrews 9:1-2 below states that the Old (first) Covenant also had ordinances and hence is clarifying that the New Covenant does not. And if the Old Covenant “had also” which means in addition to something. Then what is left? See Luke 1:6 again for the obvious answer. So to ask an obvious question.

Do these two verses refer to the moral law or the sacrificial law?

Note that the “worldly sanctuary” in verse 1 and “the candlestick, and the table, and the showbread; which is called the sanctuary” in verse 2 unmistakably belong to the temple or sanctuary which is where the animal sacrifices were carried out and hence the sacrificial law and not the moral law.

Hebrews 9:1-2

“Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the showbread; which is called the sanctuary.”

And a little bit further into the chapter the author makes reference to the ordinances again and the meat and drink offerings Paul speaks of in Colossians 2:14. Note in verse 12 it says, “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place.” I am sure it requires no explanation that this is not referring to the Ten Commandments but to blood sacrifices for sin which are the ordinances as stated in verse 1 and 10.

Hebrews 9:10-12
“Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”


The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals as well as the Holy convocations (Sabbaton to cease from work and rest) could fall on any day of the week depending on the year the festival was starting. The Holy convocations were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days (not to be confused with God’s commandment) and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

A High Sabbath day
however was when a Holy convocation annual feast day falls on the same day as God’s weekly Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11). This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23).

Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42).

That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

So in summary NO; looking at the Chapter CONTEXT of Col 2:16 and the within CONTEXT subject matter of the same scripture we can see that the scripture reference is in relation to the ceremonial laws of Moses and NOT the 10 commandments. These ceremonial laws also included that special annual festival sabbaths that could fall on ANY day of the week and had a different purpose to God's 4th commandment. Paul is in harmony with God's Word.

...............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Hope this helps...
 
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Deade

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just so you and others will know this- I have asked lovegodfoever multiple times if he believes in the Resurrection. he has yet to give a straight answer. this make me suspect he might not be a true Christian, in my opinion, a true believer in Christ would have no problem saying that they believe in a Resurrected Lord and Savior 25 times a day, he has not once straightly said he believes in it.
Hello gb9,

We all believe in the resurrection of Christ. If He is not risen our faith is vein. When was the resurrection? Maybe this will answer this question:

Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The Romans said it was Friday because of the sundown Sabbath was approaching. But it says in John 19:14 it was the preparation day (crucifixion day) which is the day before the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread. Ask any Jew what the preparation day is. Three days and three nights raises Him on Saturday evening. He had already risen by early Sunday (John 20:1).

Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet (John 20:16,17). Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they were allowed to touch Him. So we can say for sure the ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheath day, when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover. [look up wave sheath day for yourself] This still does not make Sunday the Sabbath.

Yours, Deade
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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just so you and others will know this- I have asked lovegodfoever multiple times if he believes in the Resurrection. he has yet to give a straight answer. this make me suspect he might not be a true Christian, in my opinion, a true believer in Christ would have no problem saying that they believe in a Resurrected Lord and Savior 25 times a day, he has not once straightly said he believes in it.
I absolutely believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:9 - that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ! He is risen. :)
 

MarcR

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Feb 12, 2015
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that person said the pharisees followed the Law, they di not by the Messiah's own words.

To say they did is in direct contradiction of what He said.

The pharisees followed an altered version of the Law OK, but they did not follow His Law.

2 Kings 17:19, “Yehuḏah, also, did not guard the commands of יהוה their Strength, but walked in the laws of Yisra’yl which they made.”
Just as you do; the Pharisees believed and claimed they were following the Law

What you have is at worst a difference of opinion. There is NO INTENT to deceive or misdirect.
 

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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Hello gb9,

We all believe in the resurrection of Christ. If He is not risen our faith is vein. When was the resurrection? Maybe this will answer this question:

Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The Romans said it was Friday because of the sundown Sabbath was approaching. But it says in John 19:14 it was the preparation day (crucifixion day) which is the day before the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread. Ask any Jew what the preparation day is. Three days and three nights raises Him on Saturday evening. He had already risen by early Sunday (John 20:1).

Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet (John 20:16,17). Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they were allowed to touch Him. So we can say for sure the ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheath day, when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover. [look up wave sheath day for yourself] This still does not make Sunday the Sabbath.

Yours, Deade
you know days change at midnight , right? so, if Christ rose at 1 am sunday morning, it is still sunday.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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Just as you do; the Pharisees believed and claimed they were following the Law

What you have is at worst a difference of opinion. There is NO INTENT to deceive or misdirect.
Wow, so Im the same as the pharisees?

You freely judge...

I beleive in all of YHWH's Law, I am not perfect in it, but none the less I beleive it as spoken by Him. they made their own law. I do not. they claim to be righteous and judge others, I do not.
 
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Hizikyah

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you know days change at midnight , right? so, if Christ rose at 1 am sunday morning, it is still sunday.
Actually that is the babylonian/roman calendar, YHWH's days begin and end at sundown:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 23:32, “It is a Sabbath of rest to you, and you shall afflict your beings. On the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you observe your Sabbath.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"evening" is word # H6153. ereb - Strong's Concordance: ereb: evening, Original Word: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]עָ֫רֶב[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: ereb, Phonetic Spelling: (eh'-reb), Short Definition: evening[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) evening, night, sunset, 1a) evening, sunset, 1b) night[/FONT]
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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Hello gb9,

We all believe in the resurrection of Christ. If He is not risen our faith is vein. When was the resurrection? Maybe this will answer this question:

Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The Romans said it was Friday because of the sundown Sabbath was approaching. But it says in John 19:14 it was the preparation day (crucifixion day) which is the day before the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread. Ask any Jew what the preparation day is. Three days and three nights raises Him on Saturday evening. He had already risen by early Sunday (John 20:1).

Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet (John 20:16,17). Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they were allowed to touch Him. So we can say for sure the ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheath day, when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover. [look up wave sheath day for yourself] This still does not make Sunday the Sabbath.

Yours, Deade
Jesus was crucified on Thursday 14 Abib 28A.D.

Mk 9:31
31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
KJV

Lk 9:22
22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
KJV


Lk 24:46
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
KJV


We also know that He arose on the First Day of the week Mk 16:9
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
KJV
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
you know days change at midnight , right? so, if Christ rose at 1 am sunday morning, it is still sunday.
Hello db9,

I fully know when the days started. What is hard to understand a just before sundown burial and just before sundown resurrection. Jesus said in Matthew 12:40: "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
For me that ends the argument of three 12 hour days.

Yours, Deade
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
that person said the pharisees followed the Law, they di not by the Messiah's own words.

To say they did is in direct contradiction of what He said.

The pharisees followed an altered version of the Law OK, but they did not follow His Law.

2 Kings 17:19, “Yehuḏah, also, did not guard the commands of יהוה their Strength, but walked in the laws of Yisra’yl which they made.”
Just as you do; the Pharisees believed and claimed they were following the Law

What you have is at worst a difference of opinion. There is NO INTENT to deceive or misdirect.
Wow, so Im the same as the pharisees?

You freely judge...

I beleive in all of YHWH's Law, I am not perfect in it, but none the less I beleive it as spoken by Him. they made their own law. I do not. they claim to be righteous and judge others, I do not.
YOU KNOW THAT IS A VERY BIG accusation, I would like you to show me with my own words how I am;

Just as you do; the Pharisees believed and claimed they were following the Law
as that is some very strong accusation, the pharisees were called "seed of serpents"
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
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Walk trough the valley
Jesus was crucified on Thursday 14 Abib 28A.D.

Mk 9:31
31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
KJV

Lk 9:22
22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
KJV


Lk 24:46
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
KJV


We also know that He arose on the First Day of the week Mk 16:9
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
KJV
Jesus died willingly in the garden of Gethsemane, after having given us His body in the communion of the last super. The first day of His death He was not separated from His body. The days of His death like the days of creation, evening and morning, the first day: ending the old covenant and beginning a new covenant. This first day of His suffering and death is just as much in hell or the heart of the earth as the 2 days in the tomb. from Saturday evening to Sunday morning.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
Jesus died willingly in the garden of Gethsemane, after having given us His body in the communion of the last super. The first day of His death He was not separated from His body. The days of His death like the days of creation, evening and morning, the first day: ending the old covenant and beginning a new covenant. This first day of His suffering and death is just as much in hell or the heart of the earth as the 2 days in the tomb. from Saturday evening to Sunday morning.
The 2 days separated from His body represent 2000 years separated from His body the church. The day of His sufferings represent the 1000 year reign of Christ with those who suffered with Him." Acts 1:11, Hosea 6:1, Luke 13:32