Not By Works

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

INtent?

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

(goal)is word #G5056 –télos; Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."

1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

dcontroversal said:

I replied to you "intent" comment.

You see at he top where it says "intent"

I think one can read for themselves, the inent of the Law is love:

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart ..."

1 John 2:3-7, “... whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. .."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

NoNameMcgee · Dec 30, 2017

John 10
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

_______

i wonder how the workers think they can "regain" or "lose" salvation

when its based off wether you are His sheep or not...

im sure workers will try to point at a single word and say
"SEE YOU CANT BE HIS SHEEP BECAUSE THEY FOLLOW HIM..... so if you sin once you werent His sheep to begin with"

no

sometimes a sheep may stray....

what does He do to His sheep then?

matthew 8
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malachi 3:14-18, “You have said, ‘It is worthless to serve Yah. And what did we gain when we guarded His Charge, and when we walked as mourners before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts? And now we are calling the proud blessed – not only are the doers of wrongness built up, but they also try Yah and escape. Then shall those who fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]speak to one another, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him."[/FONT]

dcontroversal · Dec 30, 2017

The law is weak thru the flesh
The law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ
The law deems the world guilty and shuts every mouth
The law is nailed to the cross and taken out of the way
The law is for the lawless
The law came by Moses as opposed to GRACE AND truth that came by Jesus
The Law is being done AWAY WITH

Law or grace.....not both....one or the other.......all who choose law choose and inferior weak way that deems you guilty!

VCO · Dec 30, 2017

Endoscopy said:

Zechariah 14:7 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.

Zechariah 14:7 (ASV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] but it shall be one day which is known unto Jehovah; not day, and not night; but it shall come to pass, that at evening time there shall be light.

TRANSLATION ONLY.

Zechariah 14:7 (NJB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And it will be one continuous day—Yahweh knows—there will be no more day and night, and it will remain light right into the time of evening.

Zechariah 14:7 (YLT)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And there hath been one day, It is known to Jehovah, not day nor night, And it hath been at evening-time--there is light.

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”[/FONT]

NoNameMcgee · Dec 30, 2017

NoNameMcgee said:

John 10
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

_______

i wonder how the workers think they can "regain" or "lose" salvation

when its based off wether you are His sheep or not...

im sure workers will try to point at a single word and say
"SEE YOU CANT BE HIS SHEEP BECAUSE THEY FOLLOW HIM..... so if you sin once you werent His sheep to begin with"

no

sometimes a sheep may stray....

what does He do to His sheep then?

matthew 8
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

God is so wonderful.... and a relationship out of love is much more pleasing than one of necessity

believe on the righteousness of Jesus and cling to Him

growth will follow as well and you will have hate for the sin you once loved

the works of the Holy spirit are truely powerful

Ralph- · Dec 30, 2017

dcontroversal said:

then "...why am I still condemned as a sinner?"

Paul's answer: Why don't you just say "Let us do evil that good may come? Your condemnation is just."

God's grace does abound where sin abounds, but it is not a ticket to do evil that good will come of it and bring glory to God. The condemnation of the person who thinks that is just and deserved.

Ralph- · Dec 30, 2017

dcontroversal said:

You don't understand that what all this is in reference to is the law as a way to be justified. Not as a means to correct and train in righteousness so that the servant of God may be equipped for every good work-2 Timothy 3:16. The usefulness of the law to that end in no way has passed away or been taken out of the way for that. If it was then Paul was terribly mistaken there in 2 Timothy 3:16.

dcontroversal · Dec 30, 2017

Ralph- said:

Try again.....the law justifies no one....it is faith which justifies.....Therefore we conclude a man is justified BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS (of the law is indicated)......it is you that has no understanding pal....

TruthTalk · Dec 30, 2017

NoNameMcgee said:

It is truly refreshing to hear your love for God, Jesus an the Holy Spirit, powerful post.

Ralph- · Dec 30, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Duh, we all know this.

The Israelites are the one's who mistakenly followed the law as if it was the way to be justified-Romans 9:31-32, Romans 10:3-4. It was never meant to do that. They just thought it was. The appearance of Christ and justification by faith put an end to that misunderstanding. The appearing of Christ did not put an end to the law itself. It is fulfilled by faith in Christ, not destroyed by faith in Christ. He said he did not come to destroy the law.

dcontroversal · Dec 30, 2017

Ralph- said:

You seem to contradict yourself regularily .....you say the above and then say a man must have works to be saved .....a total contradiction......

Mercy4u · Dec 30, 2017

Ralph- said:

If we think that our sin does not abound compared to a Perfect/Holy God............We are fooling ourselves.

We may have overt sins figured out(for the majority..hidden!) and have quit many of them. But we still worry...sin. We still feel guilty..sin. We still have fear..sin. And I and many of us HABITUALLY have worry,guilt and fear.(there is no place for worry,guilt or fear if we are living in Gods plan.)

And Gods Grace is NOT a ticket to continue sinning or doing evil(human good/evil/self righteousness). God has discipline and harsh discipline for believers who want to continue in sin or evil(human good/self righteousness.)

Salvation is not at stake for a believer. Shame,loss of rewards,reign,rank, the ability to glorify Him and many more are at stake.

If salvation was at stake..........we could perish. But we are sealed for the day of redemption, can never perish,cannot be separated from Him and have no condemnation.

Ralph- · Dec 30, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Ralph- said:

So you're telling me to just ignore 2 Timothy 3:16? It's not useful for those things? Paul was wrong?

What it's not useful for is JUSTIFICATION. That is what has ended about the law. Christ is the end of the law FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (justification)-Romans 10:4.

posthuman · Dec 30, 2017

how am i supposed to call 'a good work' anything i do because i'm convinced i have to do it 'or else' ?

dcontroversal · Dec 30, 2017

Ralph- said:

dcontroversal said:

In Christ the righteousness of the law is imputed and fulfilled in us by FAITH.....and that is what you miss.....no matter how many times one attempts to keep the law they cannot because they are ALREADY GUILTY OF BREAKING IT......

Ralph- · Dec 30, 2017

Mercy4u said:

Why do you people always drag once saved always saved into this? Is it because you are still living in your old lives and are afraid that if once saved always saved is not true then your goose is cooked when Jesus returns, so you make sure to bring that into it? Is that why?

It does not matter if you were saved before and lost it, or were never saved to begin with. Either way if you are still living in your old life when Jesus comes back you will be rejected, not saved.

Not being saved when Jesus comes back, whether you lost salvation or never had it, has the same outcome. You will be cast away into outer darkness. Once saved always saved does not change that. Unless you want to argue that once saved always saved means you can live in your old life and you will be saved when Jesus comes back.

dcontroversal · Dec 30, 2017

Ralph- said:

Why are you blind to eternal security....is it because you dogma gets flushed since it is true........yep...that's the ticket

Mercy4u · Dec 30, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Sorry DC. But from what I read on this thread 99% are saying this.

Seems that many argue from eternal security side but say ," It is really not by works, but you WILL have works. And if not. you really were not saved." Making it(salvation) BY WORKS.

Our works and service is to glorify Christ. Our belief/trust in Christ is for salvation.

Many,many,many believers STOP on START and live a life of divine discipline and worthless works. Still saved though.

A believer SHOULD have works and SHOULD Glorify Christ. Many do not. But they are still saved.

Not By Works

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