Not By Works
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Actually, it's Colossians 3 that explains how to overcome.
We always begin from the premise that we have died with Jesus, and are now raised into His life. His very being. That is the foundation. Dead to our nature of sin, and alive now in Holiness. Eternally in our spirit. So we begin from the inside out.
Things rise up that we dont want to do, or even do want to do and are tempted? We consider it dead. Consider self alive. Casting off things, and according to Colossians, our tongue is the last. Also James I think it is.
Father doesnt cast us out for failure. In fact we have a whole cloud of witnesses rooting us on, plus Holy Spirit teaching us constantly. Empowering us. Urging even at times, and even sends angels to us for our help.
When it says in Colossians that these things of our past are what the wrath of God will fall on men for? That's not the body of Christ! Those who never took the way out! Then it goes on to say, which things we once walked in.
And the bond of love is produced which is perfection. ? What is that?
It is when we gather together with others and confess to one another what we are dealing with, pray for one another, and actually begin to care for the welfare of us all....we are perfected in agape.
We can only be this way when we accept each other as equal members of Him. And accurately divide the Word as life giving, not a gavel of death.
As a whole? It's hard to find this. So we each need to start if we want change in our area.
We always begin from the premise that we have died with Jesus, and are now raised into His life. His very being. That is the foundation. Dead to our nature of sin, and alive now in Holiness. Eternally in our spirit. So we begin from the inside out.
Things rise up that we dont want to do, or even do want to do and are tempted? We consider it dead. Consider self alive. Casting off things, and according to Colossians, our tongue is the last. Also James I think it is.
Father doesnt cast us out for failure. In fact we have a whole cloud of witnesses rooting us on, plus Holy Spirit teaching us constantly. Empowering us. Urging even at times, and even sends angels to us for our help.
When it says in Colossians that these things of our past are what the wrath of God will fall on men for? That's not the body of Christ! Those who never took the way out! Then it goes on to say, which things we once walked in.
And the bond of love is produced which is perfection. ? What is that?
It is when we gather together with others and confess to one another what we are dealing with, pray for one another, and actually begin to care for the welfare of us all....we are perfected in agape.
We can only be this way when we accept each other as equal members of Him. And accurately divide the Word as life giving, not a gavel of death.
As a whole? It's hard to find this. So we each need to start if we want change in our area.
I didn't think anybody on here would know.
Actually the difference is whether the translation comes from the Hebrew or Latin Vulgate. I took Latin as my foreign language in high school. Latin has no Y or W. The J is pronounced like a Y and V is pronounced like a W. Thus YHWH becomes JHVH expanding with vowels to Jehovah.
Actually the difference is whether the translation comes from the Hebrew or Latin Vulgate. I took Latin as my foreign language in high school. Latin has no Y or W. The J is pronounced like a Y and V is pronounced like a W. Thus YHWH becomes JHVH expanding with vowels to Jehovah.
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Obedience or the WRONG MOTIVE is Phariseism, and of NO VALUE TO GOD; such as to get HIM to look on you favorably. The ONLY pure motive for GOD is SINCERE LOVE, because the of the fact that HE FIRST LOVED US.
John 14:23-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who doesn’t love Me will not keep My words. The word that you hear is not Mine but is from the Father who sent Me.
THAT IS NOT HOW TO GET YOURSELF SAVED, it is once you are saved, you can tell how the HOLY SPIRIT is really in you.
I seriously think you have totally MISUNDERSTOOD, dcontroversal.
Are you sure you are NOT:
Exodus 20:16 (ASV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
John 14:23-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who doesn’t love Me will not keep My words. The word that you hear is not Mine but is from the Father who sent Me.
THAT IS NOT HOW TO GET YOURSELF SAVED, it is once you are saved, you can tell how the HOLY SPIRIT is really in you.
I seriously think you have totally MISUNDERSTOOD, dcontroversal.
Are you sure you are NOT:
Exodus 20:16 (ASV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
when it is written "persevere to the end" is it the context of faith or in the context of works?
in continuing to believe in the Son or continuing to abstain from a particular list of sins?
if it's 'persevere' in abstinence of some particular sin, what does 'non-perseverance' look like? falling even once? can we quantify non-perseverance by a number of failures or a set period of time?
or is 'non-perseverance' defined by unbelief? can we quantify that?
in continuing to believe in the Son or continuing to abstain from a particular list of sins?
if it's 'persevere' in abstinence of some particular sin, what does 'non-perseverance' look like? falling even once? can we quantify non-perseverance by a number of failures or a set period of time?
or is 'non-perseverance' defined by unbelief? can we quantify that?
This is true EG, but then we do have those who are caught is religious thought, and I can truthfully say, I was this way too. Plus I have to watch for some reason of which I'm not yet sure why, these things try to trip me up too.
Its easy to look at those who may have caused us hurt and profess Jesus too, to then judge. Is why forgiveness is so important to keep bitterness from taking root.
So in a way, debates like this can be helpful to recognise what might be error in our own thinking. Plus, as we seek the answers from the Lord, we get nourished too.
Its easy to look at those who may have caused us hurt and profess Jesus too, to then judge. Is why forgiveness is so important to keep bitterness from taking root.
So in a way, debates like this can be helpful to recognise what might be error in our own thinking. Plus, as we seek the answers from the Lord, we get nourished too.
the context of 1 Corinthians 5:5 -- "hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord" -- is very clearly 1 Corinthians 5:1 -- "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife."
he's talking about a man living in sin without any conscious rejection of what it is he is doing. not a man 'lacking ministerial service' -- a man continuously engaging in unrepentant sexual immorality. this is the man he says may be destroyed in the flesh because of his wicked behavior, but still may be saved in the spirit. an extraordinary remark!
he's talking about a man living in sin without any conscious rejection of what it is he is doing. not a man 'lacking ministerial service' -- a man continuously engaging in unrepentant sexual immorality. this is the man he says may be destroyed in the flesh because of his wicked behavior, but still may be saved in the spirit. an extraordinary remark!
Basic salvation. The Amplified gives a more complete understanding of the requirements. Not just believe but trusts in, clings to, and relies on. We all will fall short but we are judged on our accepting Jesus as our savior and attempting to do this.
John 3 AMPC Amplified Classic edition
14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert [on a pole], so must [so it is necessary that] the Son of Man be lifted up [on the cross],
15 In order that everyone who believes in Him [who cleaves to Him, trusts Him, and relies on Him] may not perish, but have eternal life and [actually] live forever!
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
17 For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.
18 He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.]
19 The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.
20 For every wrongdoer hates (loathes, detests) the Light, and will not come out into the Light but shrinks from it, lest his works (his deeds, his activities, his conduct) be exposed and reproved.
John 3 AMPC Amplified Classic edition
14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert [on a pole], so must [so it is necessary that] the Son of Man be lifted up [on the cross],
15 In order that everyone who believes in Him [who cleaves to Him, trusts Him, and relies on Him] may not perish, but have eternal life and [actually] live forever!
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
17 For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.
18 He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.]
19 The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.
20 For every wrongdoer hates (loathes, detests) the Light, and will not come out into the Light but shrinks from it, lest his works (his deeds, his activities, his conduct) be exposed and reproved.
Yes I see what you are saying
2 Peter 3:18
18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
I still think he is addressing false teachers.
And yes he is saying be steadfast in what we have taught you.
Yet he never said that to the false teachers.
In chapter 3 Peter users the word Beloved a few times.
Jesus says
Matthew 24:24
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Who are the beloved and elected?
Ephesians 2:4-10
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
2 Peter 3:18
18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
I still think he is addressing false teachers.
And yes he is saying be steadfast in what we have taught you.
Yet he never said that to the false teachers.
In chapter 3 Peter users the word Beloved a few times.
Jesus says
Matthew 24:24
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Who are the beloved and elected?
Ephesians 2:4-10
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
It never ceases to amaze me.....Those who push works for or works as a cap off of salvation will flat lie, misrepresent what is said or stated by those who believe in eternal salvation by grace though faith alone as the source.....the fact that they push the VERY THING JESUS speaks to concerning the plenteous in number that BOAST OF WORKS AS THEIR PROOF OF KNOWING HIM AND RIGHT TO ENTER THE KINGDOM while rejecting the simple truth and verb tense found in the following verse....
NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US <---PAST TENSE
It really does prove how dark the darkness is that men walk in while refusing the light of the truth and the simplicity that is found in Christ.
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE <----NOTHING MENTIONED ABOUT WORKS...SEE ABOVE VERSE AND EMBRACE THE TRUTH....do not buy the working for deceivers!!
NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US <---PAST TENSE
It really does prove how dark the darkness is that men walk in while refusing the light of the truth and the simplicity that is found in Christ.
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE <----NOTHING MENTIONED ABOUT WORKS...SEE ABOVE VERSE AND EMBRACE THE TRUTH....do not buy the working for deceivers!!
It would seem that this is intended to produce repentence in the person. A similar thing happened in 1Ti.1:20 to Hymenaeus and Alexander and was intended for them to learn not to blaspheme. So it would seem it was intended to produce repentence instead of death.
If God had wanted them to die he would have removed His protection from them like He did with Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:3
If God had wanted them to die he would have removed His protection from them like He did with Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:3
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."
James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."
James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”[/FONT]