Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
for a while would be saying that one did return, if they went astray and forever reject Yah it would not end in Salvation, but if they did return it would end in salvation:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 18:12-14, “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, would he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains, going to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Thus it is not the desire of your Father who is in the heavens that one of these little ones should be lost."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 18:12-14, “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, would he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains, going to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Thus it is not the desire of your Father who is in the heavens that one of these little ones should be lost."[/FONT]
Let us simplify:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done* righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced* evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done* righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced* evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]
John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
*Mosheh wrote:
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"
"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}
Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)
Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
*Mosheh wrote:
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"
"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}
Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)
Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
yet He told us to obey Him, and those who did not obey Him would be judged for it:
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "...Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "...Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
What I said is, that salvation is not gained by doing works solely to get into heaven or maintain salvation..
Yet that was only Scriptre?
John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 –poimén)."
Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”
John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”
John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”
John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.”
John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."[/FONT]
John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 –poimén)."
Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”
John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”
John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”
John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.”
John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."[/FONT]
Appears that what we judge in others we find in ourselves: and what if this verse describes how to get ourselves saved: then would you be the one bearing false witness. Acts 2:40 "Save yourselves from this untoward generation."
Why not admit that we have limited view and can't nail down salvation: may even risk putting us back under the law: thinking we are right and everyone who disagrees wrong, is a mark of cult of self righteousness. A woman who is a weak Christian, told me she saw her father who died a Christian when she was young: in a dream, he told her he was granted permission to visit her from higher authority. He was wearing a crown and said to her, I had to work very hard to get this crown. This was to encourage her. This message would be easily received by Catholics, and divisions in the church are because of being in the mind of the flesh: I have a Catholic girlfriend at times she is closer to the Lord than me and times more immature. But she is much younger in Christ and in the flesh. We met here but she doesn't come here anymore because of the arguments. That may be the more immature part of her, but it also may be more mature, to tend to the Lord without distractions.
I had to work hard: I had to suffer rejection in marriage, and get past the comfort of this world in addiction to find I'm only beginning to enter the sufferings of Christ, as long as I count that joy you can hear me, is the light affliction involved labour or striving to enter into rest, considered work by some and does it mater what others and this unknown saint call it. So do we have a problem with working with Grace, that would be working with God's influence...
Why not admit that we have limited view and can't nail down salvation: may even risk putting us back under the law: thinking we are right and everyone who disagrees wrong, is a mark of cult of self righteousness. A woman who is a weak Christian, told me she saw her father who died a Christian when she was young: in a dream, he told her he was granted permission to visit her from higher authority. He was wearing a crown and said to her, I had to work very hard to get this crown. This was to encourage her. This message would be easily received by Catholics, and divisions in the church are because of being in the mind of the flesh: I have a Catholic girlfriend at times she is closer to the Lord than me and times more immature. But she is much younger in Christ and in the flesh. We met here but she doesn't come here anymore because of the arguments. That may be the more immature part of her, but it also may be more mature, to tend to the Lord without distractions.
I had to work hard: I had to suffer rejection in marriage, and get past the comfort of this world in addiction to find I'm only beginning to enter the sufferings of Christ, as long as I count that joy you can hear me, is the light affliction involved labour or striving to enter into rest, considered work by some and does it mater what others and this unknown saint call it. So do we have a problem with working with Grace, that would be working with God's influence...
That is one of the 2 yes indeed! and telling on who is His.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:35, “This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
[/FONT]However we can not get worldly love confused with YHWH's love. Worldly love can twist the idea of love into lust like "love" that justifies ones own desires or hippie like "love" that says everything is ok.
His love His standard His way His teaching.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:35, “This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
[/FONT]However we can not get worldly love confused with YHWH's love. Worldly love can twist the idea of love into lust like "love" that justifies ones own desires or hippie like "love" that says everything is ok.
His love His standard His way His teaching.