Partakers of the Holy Ghost
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Yes you are reading the Scriptures ring to believe or have faith is associated with repentance.
These people in Hebrews 6 were only partakers or they shared in the Holy Spirit. Notice that these people only tasted of the heavenly gift, where believers are made to drink of the Spirit. I Corinthians 12:13
“For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”
The people Paul is talking about were not believers as those he is addressing, verse 9 “Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation.”
The people Paul is talking about were people that came to a service heard the word of God being delivered in the power of the Holy Spirit and after hearing the Good News of Christ crucified and they go back to the Hebrew form a worship by making offerings for their sins, there is no repentance in the offerings and they crucify Christ again by going back to Temple worship.
These people in Hebrews 6 were only partakers or they shared in the Holy Spirit. Notice that these people only tasted of the heavenly gift, where believers are made to drink of the Spirit. I Corinthians 12:13
“For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”
The people Paul is talking about were not believers as those he is addressing, verse 9 “Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation.”
The people Paul is talking about were people that came to a service heard the word of God being delivered in the power of the Holy Spirit and after hearing the Good News of Christ crucified and they go back to the Hebrew form a worship by making offerings for their sins, there is no repentance in the offerings and they crucify Christ again by going back to Temple worship.
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why take such 'offence' if your post wasn't read in order? take a deep breath and just try
and expand your understanding/Love of others: your take on 'rancid acid bath', is so very unkind' -
don't think that I have ever heard such words spoken in personal judgment...
why take such 'offence' if your post wasn't read in order? take a deep breath and just try
and expand your understanding/Love of others: your take on 'rancid acid bath', is so very unkind' -
don't think that I have ever heard such words spoken in personal judgment...
This is typical Calvinistic misinterpretation of faith and repentance to make the Gospel fit into their distorted view of God electing some for salvation and ignoring the rest of humanity!
THE TRUTH ABOUT SAVING FAITH
How is faith "given" by God? Apart from the fact that faith is also a spiritual gift given to some believers (which would imply extraordinary faith) (1 Cor 12:9), saving faith is generated THROUGH THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL, and this is clearly explained in Romans 10, where Paul sums it up as follows (v 17): So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Paul goes into great detail about the necessity of preachers and preaching in this chapter, and how many Jews did not obey the Gospel even though it was preached to them first.
Here (as well as in other passages) "the Word of God" refers to the Gospel, and both Peter and James confirm to us that it is the Gospel (the Word of God or the Word of Truth) which is "the seed" of the New Birth. So saving faith is NOT something that happens to alight supernaturally on some sinners, and bypass others (which would make God a respecter of persons). And because the preaching of the Gospel is so necessary for salvation, the Lord commands the Church to go into ALL the world and preach the Gospel to EVERY creature. As Paul clearly stated (and as clearly ignored by Calvinists) the Gospel is THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION to all those who believe (Rom 1:16).
THE TRUTH ABOUT REPENTANCE
If repentance was a "gift" given to a select few, then God could not possibly command all men everywhere to repent. He would be contradicting Himself (which God never does): And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where torepent (Acts 17:30).
So on the basis of this verse alone, God does NOT "give" repentance selectively to some "elect" folks while ignoring the rest. But then how does repentance come about? (1) through the preaching of the Gospel as indicated above and (2) by the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit while the Gospel is being preached (John 16:7-11):
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
What does it mean that He will "reprove" the world of sin? Some of the modern versions translate that as "convict" and that is correct.
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: elegchó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-eng'-kho)
Short Definition: I rebuke, expose
Definition: (a) I reprove, rebuke, discipline, (b) I expose, show to be guilty.
So while the Holy Spirit exposes sinners to their own sinfulness and shows them to be guilty (through the Word) He also convinces them that the Lord Jesus Christ is God who became Man in order to die for their sins and rise again for their justification. At the same time -- if the preacher is worth his salt -- he will tell his audience what Peter told his audience on the God of Pentecost and subsequently:
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 2:38; 3:19).
So repentance is A COMMAND given through the Gospel, and must be obeyed in order to be saved.
THE TRUTH ABOUT SAVING FAITH
How is faith "given" by God? Apart from the fact that faith is also a spiritual gift given to some believers (which would imply extraordinary faith) (1 Cor 12:9), saving faith is generated THROUGH THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL, and this is clearly explained in Romans 10, where Paul sums it up as follows (v 17): So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Paul goes into great detail about the necessity of preachers and preaching in this chapter, and how many Jews did not obey the Gospel even though it was preached to them first.
Here (as well as in other passages) "the Word of God" refers to the Gospel, and both Peter and James confirm to us that it is the Gospel (the Word of God or the Word of Truth) which is "the seed" of the New Birth. So saving faith is NOT something that happens to alight supernaturally on some sinners, and bypass others (which would make God a respecter of persons). And because the preaching of the Gospel is so necessary for salvation, the Lord commands the Church to go into ALL the world and preach the Gospel to EVERY creature. As Paul clearly stated (and as clearly ignored by Calvinists) the Gospel is THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION to all those who believe (Rom 1:16).
THE TRUTH ABOUT REPENTANCE
If repentance was a "gift" given to a select few, then God could not possibly command all men everywhere to repent. He would be contradicting Himself (which God never does): And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where torepent (Acts 17:30).
So on the basis of this verse alone, God does NOT "give" repentance selectively to some "elect" folks while ignoring the rest. But then how does repentance come about? (1) through the preaching of the Gospel as indicated above and (2) by the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit while the Gospel is being preached (John 16:7-11):
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
What does it mean that He will "reprove" the world of sin? Some of the modern versions translate that as "convict" and that is correct.
Strong's Concordance
elegchó: to expose, convict, reprove
Original Word: ἐλέγχωPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: elegchó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-eng'-kho)
Short Definition: I rebuke, expose
Definition: (a) I reprove, rebuke, discipline, (b) I expose, show to be guilty.
So while the Holy Spirit exposes sinners to their own sinfulness and shows them to be guilty (through the Word) He also convinces them that the Lord Jesus Christ is God who became Man in order to die for their sins and rise again for their justification. At the same time -- if the preacher is worth his salt -- he will tell his audience what Peter told his audience on the God of Pentecost and subsequently:
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 2:38; 3:19).
So repentance is A COMMAND given through the Gospel, and must be obeyed in order to be saved.
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You rarely know what you're talking about and the above is further proof of your loathing God's ways in electing to salvation, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and granting both faith and repentance. But you relentlessly place yourself on the throne and mitigate the Gospel.
We all, who are elect, received (obtained) faith which proves it isn't inherent and came from God; 2 Peter 1:1.
Faith then isn't inherent, it's the power of God, not our choices or inherent ability to "choose" as in your truncated gospel; Ephesians 1:19. Also Romans 10:17.
We all, who are elect, received (obtained) faith which proves it isn't inherent and came from God; 2 Peter 1:1.
Faith then isn't inherent, it's the power of God, not our choices or inherent ability to "choose" as in your truncated gospel; Ephesians 1:19. Also Romans 10:17.
And yet you could not prove from Scripture that what I have stated is NOT the truth.
What I (and others) loathe is the DISTORTION OF THE GOSPEL by the Calvinistic Crowd. God has provide for the salvation of all human beings in and through Christ, and God desires that ALL MEN SHOULD BE SAVED and come unto the knowledge of the truth. Therefore it is impossible that God could -- or would -- exclude anyone who turns to Christ, and all could be saved if all would believe.
When the Bible says that God "granted" repentance, that must be interpreted in the light of the rest of the Gospel. God grants repentance to ALL who obey the Gospel, which really means that God grants remission of sins through repentance, as Christ has stated:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47).
When Scripture says that God "granted" faith it means that the Gospel was effective in that person's heart, since it is the Gospel which is the power of God unto salvation.
What I (and others) loathe is the DISTORTION OF THE GOSPEL by the Calvinistic Crowd. God has provide for the salvation of all human beings in and through Christ, and God desires that ALL MEN SHOULD BE SAVED and come unto the knowledge of the truth. Therefore it is impossible that God could -- or would -- exclude anyone who turns to Christ, and all could be saved if all would believe.
When the Bible says that God "granted" repentance, that must be interpreted in the light of the rest of the Gospel. God grants repentance to ALL who obey the Gospel, which really means that God grants remission of sins through repentance, as Christ has stated:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47).
When Scripture says that God "granted" faith it means that the Gospel was effective in that person's heart, since it is the Gospel which is the power of God unto salvation.
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin. But a certain fearful looking for judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Hebrews 10:26,27
When people turn from Christ's once-for-all, perfect sacrifice back to their old ways and defiantly and wilfully disobey God, there is no more a sacrifice for such apostasy.
And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth ignorantly before the Lord, to make an atonement for him; and he shall be forgiven. Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that soujourneth among them. But the soul that doeth aught presumptuously, whether born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall BE CUT OFF FROM AMONG HIS PEOPLE. BECAUSE HE HATH DESPISED THE WORD OF THE LORD, AND HATH BROKEN HIS COMMANDMENT, THAT SOUL SHALL UTTERLY BE CUT OFF; [[[[[HIS INIQUITY SHALL BE UPON HIM]]]]] Numbers 15:28-31
When people turn from Christ's once-for-all, perfect sacrifice back to their old ways and defiantly and wilfully disobey God, there is no more a sacrifice for such apostasy.
And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth ignorantly before the Lord, to make an atonement for him; and he shall be forgiven. Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that soujourneth among them. But the soul that doeth aught presumptuously, whether born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall BE CUT OFF FROM AMONG HIS PEOPLE. BECAUSE HE HATH DESPISED THE WORD OF THE LORD, AND HATH BROKEN HIS COMMANDMENT, THAT SOUL SHALL UTTERLY BE CUT OFF; [[[[[HIS INIQUITY SHALL BE UPON HIM]]]]] Numbers 15:28-31
Yours is typical misinterpretation by those who fail to see that God has chosen out His elect.
THE TRUTH. Where is your humility man?
That is simple, it is worked in those whom He chooses so that they come to Him.
So God's word causes the hearing of faith? that make God the INITIATOR. Man merely receives,
True, and it follows chapter 9 (eg 14-16) where he has made clear that only those whom God wishes will hear,.
they would not hear because their hears were hardened by God (Mark 4.11-12; Matthew 13.11-15).
Where does it say so? It seems more to me like 'the word of Christ' (original reading) means the word that came from Christ.
But a seed is planted by the Giver. He plants the seed. Then it grows within us.
I would suggest that that is precisely what it is.
are you denying that God IS a respecter of persons?
Precisely, so that the elect might hear.
It is the power of God unto salvation to ALL who truly believe. Have you ever heard a Calvinist deny it?
Where is the contradiction.? God does command all men everywhere to repent.
His overall command is different from His enabling. SEE for example Acts 5.1 where 'He granted repentance to Israel'. Sounds like a gift to me.
Act 5.31 says by being granted by God,
This follows God granting it.
I've said this several times elsewhere, but it bears repeating.
Hebrews 10 is discussing the Jewish sacrificial system, that's why it's written to Hebrews.
What were Hebrews? Jews.
Now these Jews were considering going back to the old sacrificial ways.
And what do we know about the old sacrifices? They pointed to Christ.
And since they pointed to Christ, when He came, they were no longer effective in absolving sin.
So if you TURN AWAY from Christ there is no sacrifice remaining for you. Because that would mean He would need to be sacrificed again. His sacrifice was ONE time and it was enough for ALL time.
We know that because Hebrews 10:14 tells us this:
For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
One of the biggest issues with understanding Scripture is when we read it with an orphan mindset. If we are reading it with the lens of what we must do FOR God, we are almost always missing it.
Because we now live WITH God. He is one with us, His name is Emmanuel. His Spirit is our teacher. And He is our Lord. And God is our Father. Please notice the following attributes God defines Himself as: Father, Son, Teacher, Elder Brother, Shepherd, King... every single one of these denotes RELATIONSHIP.
So what is sin in context of relationship with Christ? I could go deeper into this, but I'll let Christ speak for Himself:
John 16:8And having come, He will convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment: 9concerning sin indeed, because they do not believe in Me; 10and concerning righteousness, because I go away to the Father and you behold Me no more; 11and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
Matt 25:40 And the King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.'
Bless you
Hebrews 10 is discussing the Jewish sacrificial system, that's why it's written to Hebrews.
What were Hebrews? Jews.
Now these Jews were considering going back to the old sacrificial ways.
And what do we know about the old sacrifices? They pointed to Christ.
And since they pointed to Christ, when He came, they were no longer effective in absolving sin.
So if you TURN AWAY from Christ there is no sacrifice remaining for you. Because that would mean He would need to be sacrificed again. His sacrifice was ONE time and it was enough for ALL time.
We know that because Hebrews 10:14 tells us this:
For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
One of the biggest issues with understanding Scripture is when we read it with an orphan mindset. If we are reading it with the lens of what we must do FOR God, we are almost always missing it.
Because we now live WITH God. He is one with us, His name is Emmanuel. His Spirit is our teacher. And He is our Lord. And God is our Father. Please notice the following attributes God defines Himself as: Father, Son, Teacher, Elder Brother, Shepherd, King... every single one of these denotes RELATIONSHIP.
So what is sin in context of relationship with Christ? I could go deeper into this, but I'll let Christ speak for Himself:
John 16:8And having come, He will convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment: 9concerning sin indeed, because they do not believe in Me; 10and concerning righteousness, because I go away to the Father and you behold Me no more; 11and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
Matt 25:40 And the King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.'
Bless you
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