Partakers of the Holy Ghost
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Seems many want to browbeat people over the head with Hebrews 10:26, that if the person sins willfully, they're going to hell. As if they don't sin on purpose. Ever. It only applies "to others" not to them. They would never, and have never done such a thing.
That misapplication and grandstanding needs to stop. If a person has been granted faith and repentance, they are his, and this will not be lost. All the evidences and graces of salvation come with this transformation and conversion.
Many preachers misuse this text to get a full altar at the end of a service. Funny thing is, those at the altar are going because they've "willfully sinned" and if that were the sense of the text (as some on here are making it out to be) then they're on their way to hell. It's useless then to "go forward" and mend ones ways at that point (just the logical end of this misusage).
Here, this gives the proper context and sense of the text:
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins; meaning, not typical sacrifice; for though the daily sacrifice ought to have ceased at the death of Christ, yet it did not in fact until the destruction of Jerusalem; but the sacrifice of Christ, which will never be repeated; Christ will die no more; his blood will not be shed again, nor his sacrifice reiterated; nor will any other sacrifice be offered; there will be no other Saviour; there is no salvation in any other, nor any other name whereby we must be saved. These words have been wrongly made use of to prove that persons sinning after baptism are not to be restored to communion again upon repentance; and being understood of immoral actions wilfully committed, have given great distress to consciences burdened with the guilt of sin, committed after a profession of religion; but the true sense of the whole is this, that after men have embraced and professed the truths of the Gospel, and particularly this great truth of it, that Jesus Christ is the only Saviour of men by his blood and sacrifice; and yet after this, against all evidence, all the light and convictions of their own consciences, they wilfully deny this truth, and obstinately persist in the denial of it; seeing there is no more, no other sacrifice for sin, no other Saviour, nor any salvation in any other way, the case of these men must be desperate; there is no help for them, nor hope of them; for by this their sin they shut up against themselves, in principle and practice, the way of salvation, as follows.
- John Gill
That misapplication and grandstanding needs to stop. If a person has been granted faith and repentance, they are his, and this will not be lost. All the evidences and graces of salvation come with this transformation and conversion.
Many preachers misuse this text to get a full altar at the end of a service. Funny thing is, those at the altar are going because they've "willfully sinned" and if that were the sense of the text (as some on here are making it out to be) then they're on their way to hell. It's useless then to "go forward" and mend ones ways at that point (just the logical end of this misusage).
Here, this gives the proper context and sense of the text:
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins; meaning, not typical sacrifice; for though the daily sacrifice ought to have ceased at the death of Christ, yet it did not in fact until the destruction of Jerusalem; but the sacrifice of Christ, which will never be repeated; Christ will die no more; his blood will not be shed again, nor his sacrifice reiterated; nor will any other sacrifice be offered; there will be no other Saviour; there is no salvation in any other, nor any other name whereby we must be saved. These words have been wrongly made use of to prove that persons sinning after baptism are not to be restored to communion again upon repentance; and being understood of immoral actions wilfully committed, have given great distress to consciences burdened with the guilt of sin, committed after a profession of religion; but the true sense of the whole is this, that after men have embraced and professed the truths of the Gospel, and particularly this great truth of it, that Jesus Christ is the only Saviour of men by his blood and sacrifice; and yet after this, against all evidence, all the light and convictions of their own consciences, they wilfully deny this truth, and obstinately persist in the denial of it; seeing there is no more, no other sacrifice for sin, no other Saviour, nor any salvation in any other way, the case of these men must be desperate; there is no help for them, nor hope of them; for by this their sin they shut up against themselves, in principle and practice, the way of salvation, as follows.
- John Gill
E
Welp this is just typical. You claim you are going to destroy OSAS. Then make claims, and whenever you are confronted with those claim, you refuse to answer the questions. Your not the first one and you will not be the last.
Your the one who brought up willful sin, It was not me. Nor did I have a grip on anything, I just asked a question.
Your answer (or should I say lack of an answer) just goes to show the truth. You made a claim based on your interpretation of a passage, which failed when you were asked to explain.
I have no gripe with anyone.
As for numbers, again, Unless you claim you NEVER sin willfully, and that your sins are just booboo’s, mistakes, oopsie or whatever. Your use of numbers is meaningless.
Your the one who brought up willful sin, It was not me. Nor did I have a grip on anything, I just asked a question.
Your answer (or should I say lack of an answer) just goes to show the truth. You made a claim based on your interpretation of a passage, which failed when you were asked to explain.
I have no gripe with anyone.
As for numbers, again, Unless you claim you NEVER sin willfully, and that your sins are just booboo’s, mistakes, oopsie or whatever. Your use of numbers is meaningless.
E
from the once saved always saved thread.
if your going to threaten someone, you should make sure you have no incriminating stuff which would go against you.
This is a bible discussion forum, If your going to quote the word of God and discuss it, You better be willing and able to handle when people bring an apposing view.
Again, Your the one who brought up wilfull sin, Your not the first person to do this, and every person who has every brought this up I have asked the same question to. So I am not harassing you, no matter what you think.
If you can not stand up for the belief you are trying to push. And back the verses you are using when you are questioned about them. Then maybe you should not be in a bible DISCUSSION forum.
if your going to threaten someone, you should make sure you have no incriminating stuff which would go against you.
This is a bible discussion forum, If your going to quote the word of God and discuss it, You better be willing and able to handle when people bring an apposing view.
Again, Your the one who brought up wilfull sin, Your not the first person to do this, and every person who has every brought this up I have asked the same question to. So I am not harassing you, no matter what you think.
If you can not stand up for the belief you are trying to push. And back the verses you are using when you are questioned about them. Then maybe you should not be in a bible DISCUSSION forum.
New International Version
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
New Living Translation
Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.
English Standard Version
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Berean Study Bible
If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains,
Berean Literal Bible
For if we sin willingly after we are to receive the knowledge of the truth, no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
New American Standard Bible
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
de·lib·er·ate·ly
dəˈlib(ə)rətlē/
adverb
1.consciously and intentionally; on purpose.
"the fire was started deliberately"
synonyms:
intentionally, on purpose, purposely, by design, knowingly, wittingly, consciously, purposefully;
willfully; with malice aforethought
"he deliberately hurt me"
Those that play with fire don't deliberately burn the house down. An arsonist does it on purpose, with premeditation & planning.
The arsonist does it deliberately.
Yes, we sin. But we don't plan to do it in God's face. We don't plan to run with the Devil.
Those who have a problem with this didn't do well in English class.
You generally get an ad hominem in when you post. You haven't failed to do so here either, in ending your post you offer yet another.
We all know what the Scripture says, and the word definitions we get, yet neither prove your stance.
Truth doesn't end with knowing what Scripture says, but knowing what it means. This passage isn't dealing with sins of the saints, but of apostasy and apostates.
You want it to be dealing with sins of the saints, because you deem yourself exempt, and deem others as guilty.
Which is rather silly, because you'd be damning your own soul along with them into hell because you sin deliberately as well.
We all know what the Scripture says, and the word definitions we get, yet neither prove your stance.
Truth doesn't end with knowing what Scripture says, but knowing what it means. This passage isn't dealing with sins of the saints, but of apostasy and apostates.
You want it to be dealing with sins of the saints, because you deem yourself exempt, and deem others as guilty.
Which is rather silly, because you'd be damning your own soul along with them into hell because you sin deliberately as well.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(26) For.—The connecting links are the thought of the consequences to which such sinful neglect (Hebrews 10:25) may lead, and the awful revelation of judgment which the final day will bring. Even more clearly than in Hebrews 6:4-6 the state described is one of wilful and continued sin, which is the result and the expression of apostasy from Christ. It is not, “If we fall under temptation and commit sin;” but, “If we are sinning wilfully.” The descriptive words are few as compared with those of the former passage, but they teach the same lesson. Not merely the “knowledge” but the “full knowledge” (Romans 1:28) of the truth has been received by those to whom the writer here makes reference; they have been “sanctified in the blood of the covenant” (Hebrews 10:29). For such “there remaineth no longer a sacrifice for sins:” that offering of Jesus which they deliberately reject has abolished all the earlier sacrifices. The observances and ceremonies of Judaism, which had been full of meaning whilst they pointed to Him that was to come, have lost all their virtue through His coming. Nay more: for such sin as this, the sin of knowing and wilful rejection of the only Sin offering, God has provided no other sacrifice. In its general significance this passage does not differ from Hebrews 6:4-6.
(26) For.—The connecting links are the thought of the consequences to which such sinful neglect (Hebrews 10:25) may lead, and the awful revelation of judgment which the final day will bring. Even more clearly than in Hebrews 6:4-6 the state described is one of wilful and continued sin, which is the result and the expression of apostasy from Christ. It is not, “If we fall under temptation and commit sin;” but, “If we are sinning wilfully.” The descriptive words are few as compared with those of the former passage, but they teach the same lesson. Not merely the “knowledge” but the “full knowledge” (Romans 1:28) of the truth has been received by those to whom the writer here makes reference; they have been “sanctified in the blood of the covenant” (Hebrews 10:29). For such “there remaineth no longer a sacrifice for sins:” that offering of Jesus which they deliberately reject has abolished all the earlier sacrifices. The observances and ceremonies of Judaism, which had been full of meaning whilst they pointed to Him that was to come, have lost all their virtue through His coming. Nay more: for such sin as this, the sin of knowing and wilful rejection of the only Sin offering, God has provided no other sacrifice. In its general significance this passage does not differ from Hebrews 6:4-6.
Benson Commentary
Hebrews 10:26-27. For, &c. — As if he had said, It concerns us to use all means to ensure our perseverance, because apostacy is so dangerous; if we — Any of us Christians; sin wilfully — By total apostacy from God; (see on Hebrews 6:4
after we have received the knowledge of the truth — As it is in Jesus, namely, an experimental and practical knowledge thereof, so as to have been made free thereby from the guilt and power of sin; there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins — None but that which we obstinately reject. “As the apostle, in the former part of the epistle, had proved that the sacrifices of the law were all abolished, and that the only sacrifice for sin remaining was the sacrifice of Christ, it followed that apostates, who wilfully renounced the benefit of that sacrifice, had no sacrifice for sin whatever remaining to them.” But a certain fearful looking for — Φοβερα δε τις εκδοχη, a kind of fearful expectation: intimating something inexpressible, such as no heart could conceive or tongue describe. Thus St. Peter, 1 Epist. 1 Peter 4:17-18, What shall be the end of them who obey not the gospel? Where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Of judgment and fiery indignation. The apostle refers both to the final judgment of the great day, when apostates from the religion of Jesus, as well as those who obstinately rejected it, shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, &c., 2 Thessalonians 1:9; and also to the dreadful and fiery indignation which God was about to bring on the unbelieving and obstinate Jews, in the total destruction of their city and temple by sword and fire, devouring them, as adversaries to God and his Christ, of all others the most inexcusable. The reader should observe that the apostle lays it down here as certain, that God will not pardon sinners without some sacrifice or satisfaction. For otherwise it would not follow, from there remaining to apostates no more sacrifice for sin, that there must remain to them a dreadful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation. In these last words, the conflagration of the heaven and the earth at the day of judgment seems especially to be referred to.
Hebrews 10:26-27. For, &c. — As if he had said, It concerns us to use all means to ensure our perseverance, because apostacy is so dangerous; if we — Any of us Christians; sin wilfully — By total apostacy from God; (see on Hebrews 6:4
after we have received the knowledge of the truth — As it is in Jesus, namely, an experimental and practical knowledge thereof, so as to have been made free thereby from the guilt and power of sin; there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins — None but that which we obstinately reject. “As the apostle, in the former part of the epistle, had proved that the sacrifices of the law were all abolished, and that the only sacrifice for sin remaining was the sacrifice of Christ, it followed that apostates, who wilfully renounced the benefit of that sacrifice, had no sacrifice for sin whatever remaining to them.” But a certain fearful looking for — Φοβερα δε τις εκδοχη, a kind of fearful expectation: intimating something inexpressible, such as no heart could conceive or tongue describe. Thus St. Peter, 1 Epist. 1 Peter 4:17-18, What shall be the end of them who obey not the gospel? Where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Of judgment and fiery indignation. The apostle refers both to the final judgment of the great day, when apostates from the religion of Jesus, as well as those who obstinately rejected it, shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, &c., 2 Thessalonians 1:9; and also to the dreadful and fiery indignation which God was about to bring on the unbelieving and obstinate Jews, in the total destruction of their city and temple by sword and fire, devouring them, as adversaries to God and his Christ, of all others the most inexcusable. The reader should observe that the apostle lays it down here as certain, that God will not pardon sinners without some sacrifice or satisfaction. For otherwise it would not follow, from there remaining to apostates no more sacrifice for sin, that there must remain to them a dreadful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation. In these last words, the conflagration of the heaven and the earth at the day of judgment seems especially to be referred to.
You're using the above to support your view when it actually does not. It is totally speaking about apostasy, not sins of the saints. You want the text to slam Christians, saints, and to support you while browbeating others in comparison to you. Sorry, it doesn't do that, as badly as you want it to. Maybe you can find another text to body slam a few brothers with?
Apostates.
Saints.
Know the difference, and stop trying to slam others who love Christ and are converted.
Apostates.
Saints.
Know the difference, and stop trying to slam others who love Christ and are converted.
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
26. Compare on this and following verses, Heb 6:4, &c. There the warning was that if there be not diligence in progressing, a falling off will take place, and apostasy may ensue: here it is, that if there be lukewarmness in Christian communion, apostasy may ensue.if we sin—Greek present participle: if we be found sinning, that is, not isolated acts, but a state of sin [Alford]. A violation not only of the law, but of the whole economy of the New Testament (Heb 10:28, 29).wilfully—presumptuously, Greek "willingly." After receiving "full knowledge (so the Greek, compare 1Ti 2:4) of the truth," by having been "enlightened," and by having "tasted" a certain measure even of grace of "the Holy Ghost" (the Spirit of truth, Joh 14:17; and "the Spirit of grace," Heb 10:29): to fall away (as "sin" here means, Heb 3:12, 17; compare Heb 6:6) and apostatize (Heb 3:12) to Judaism or infidelity, is not a sin of ignorance, or error ("out of the way," the result) of infirmity, but a deliberate sinning against the Spirit (Heb 10:29; Heb 5:2): such sinning, where a consciousness of Gospel obligations not only was, but is present: a sinning presumptuously and preseveringly against Christ's redemption for us, and the Spirit of grace in us. "He only who stands high can fall low. A lively reference in the soul to what is good is necessary in order to be thoroughly wicked; hence, man can be more reprobate than the beasts, and the apostate angels than apostate man" [Tholuck].remaineth no more sacrifice—For there is but ONE Sacrifice that can atone for sin; they, after having fully known that sacrifice, deliberately reject it.
26. Compare on this and following verses, Heb 6:4, &c. There the warning was that if there be not diligence in progressing, a falling off will take place, and apostasy may ensue: here it is, that if there be lukewarmness in Christian communion, apostasy may ensue.if we sin—Greek present participle: if we be found sinning, that is, not isolated acts, but a state of sin [Alford]. A violation not only of the law, but of the whole economy of the New Testament (Heb 10:28, 29).wilfully—presumptuously, Greek "willingly." After receiving "full knowledge (so the Greek, compare 1Ti 2:4) of the truth," by having been "enlightened," and by having "tasted" a certain measure even of grace of "the Holy Ghost" (the Spirit of truth, Joh 14:17; and "the Spirit of grace," Heb 10:29): to fall away (as "sin" here means, Heb 3:12, 17; compare Heb 6:6) and apostatize (Heb 3:12) to Judaism or infidelity, is not a sin of ignorance, or error ("out of the way," the result) of infirmity, but a deliberate sinning against the Spirit (Heb 10:29; Heb 5:2): such sinning, where a consciousness of Gospel obligations not only was, but is present: a sinning presumptuously and preseveringly against Christ's redemption for us, and the Spirit of grace in us. "He only who stands high can fall low. A lively reference in the soul to what is good is necessary in order to be thoroughly wicked; hence, man can be more reprobate than the beasts, and the apostate angels than apostate man" [Tholuck].remaineth no more sacrifice—For there is but ONE Sacrifice that can atone for sin; they, after having fully known that sacrifice, deliberately reject it.
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Jump to: Topical • ISBE • Webster's • Concordance • Thesaurus • Greek • Hebrew • Library • Subtopics • Terms
Topical Bible Verses
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Topicalbible.orgJohn 6:66
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Topicalbible.org
Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Topicalbible.org
Matthew 24:10
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Topicalbible.org
Hebrews 6:4-8
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Topicalbible.org
2 Timothy 4:10
For Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed to Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia.
Topicalbible.org
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
(n.) A total desertion or departure from one's faith, principles, or party; as, Julian's apostasy from Christianity; An abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed;
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
APOSTASY; APOSTATE - a-pos'-ta-si, a-pos'-tat (he apostasia, "a standing away from"): I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. Paul was falsely accused of teaching the Jews apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21); he predicted the great apostasy from Christianity, foretold by Jesus (Matthew 24:10-12) which would precede "the day of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude, e.g. the apostasy of angels (Jude 1:6). Foretold, with warnings, as sure to abound in the latter days (1 Timothy 4:1-3 2 Thessalonians 2:3 2 Peter 3:17). Causes of: persecution (Matthew 24:9, 10); false teachers (Matthew 24:11); temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Timothy 4:4); defective knowledge of Christ (1 John 2:19); moral lapse (Hebrews 6:4-6); forsaking worship and spiritual living (Hebrews 10:25-31); unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). Biblical examples: Saul (1 Samuel 15:11); Amaziah (2 Chronicles 25:14, 27); many disciples (John 6:66); Hymeneus and Alexander (1 Timothy 1:19, 20); Demas (2 Timothy 4:10). For further illustration see Deuteronomy 13:13; Ze 1:4-6; Galatians 5:42 Peter 2:20, 21.
[/TD]Topical Bible Verses
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Topicalbible.orgJohn 6:66
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Topicalbible.org
Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Topicalbible.org
Matthew 24:10
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Topicalbible.org
Hebrews 6:4-8
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Topicalbible.org
2 Timothy 4:10
For Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed to Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia.
Topicalbible.org
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
(n.) A total desertion or departure from one's faith, principles, or party; as, Julian's apostasy from Christianity; An abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed;
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
APOSTASY; APOSTATE - a-pos'-ta-si, a-pos'-tat (he apostasia, "a standing away from"): I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. Paul was falsely accused of teaching the Jews apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21); he predicted the great apostasy from Christianity, foretold by Jesus (Matthew 24:10-12) which would precede "the day of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude, e.g. the apostasy of angels (Jude 1:6). Foretold, with warnings, as sure to abound in the latter days (1 Timothy 4:1-3 2 Thessalonians 2:3 2 Peter 3:17). Causes of: persecution (Matthew 24:9, 10); false teachers (Matthew 24:11); temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Timothy 4:4); defective knowledge of Christ (1 John 2:19); moral lapse (Hebrews 6:4-6); forsaking worship and spiritual living (Hebrews 10:25-31); unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). Biblical examples: Saul (1 Samuel 15:11); Amaziah (2 Chronicles 25:14, 27); many disciples (John 6:66); Hymeneus and Alexander (1 Timothy 1:19, 20); Demas (2 Timothy 4:10). For further illustration see Deuteronomy 13:13; Ze 1:4-6; Galatians 5:42 Peter 2:20, 21.
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you know, you are giving him far too much fun
you are not familiar with it, but some folks here love to get a Jack Russel grip on new people and shake them until they either get them banned by constant goading, or, consider themselves the winner in a battle for superiority as in 'legend in their own mind'
U
God is not an arbitrary, deterministic deity that is depicted in the writings of Augustine.
He is in fact wise and lovingly flexible in his dealings with people.
I think if you read the chapter apart from a deterministic Calvinist lens, you will see that the chapter is about God’s faithfulness to Israel, and how God elects a group of people to his covenant promises. Paul is not addressing in this chapter an individual’s personal salvation. He is speaking of God’s covenant promise with Israel as His chosen people and how it has been extended to include the Gentiles.
Paul’s argues that God’s covenant with Israel was never based on ancestry or obedience to the law. The Israelites were not God’s chosen people because of any merit on their part. Rather, God chose them simply because He wanted to. Paul’s main message in Romans 9 is that God chooses whatever group of people He wants to represent Him. He chose Israel to be His covenant people, and if He wants to extend His covenant to include Gentiles, He has every right to do so.
I read in scripture so many times where God chooses to extend mercy in response to faith, and He chooses hardening in response to unbelief.
God’s love is universal, His love is impartial, His love is kind, and His love desires all to be saved
Acts 10:34, Eph 6:9, 2 Pet 3:9
He is in fact wise and lovingly flexible in his dealings with people.
I think if you read the chapter apart from a deterministic Calvinist lens, you will see that the chapter is about God’s faithfulness to Israel, and how God elects a group of people to his covenant promises. Paul is not addressing in this chapter an individual’s personal salvation. He is speaking of God’s covenant promise with Israel as His chosen people and how it has been extended to include the Gentiles.
Paul’s argues that God’s covenant with Israel was never based on ancestry or obedience to the law. The Israelites were not God’s chosen people because of any merit on their part. Rather, God chose them simply because He wanted to. Paul’s main message in Romans 9 is that God chooses whatever group of people He wants to represent Him. He chose Israel to be His covenant people, and if He wants to extend His covenant to include Gentiles, He has every right to do so.
I read in scripture so many times where God chooses to extend mercy in response to faith, and He chooses hardening in response to unbelief.
God’s love is universal, His love is impartial, His love is kind, and His love desires all to be saved
Acts 10:34, Eph 6:9, 2 Pet 3:9