31 SIGNS YOU MIGHT BE APOSTATE (Check your spiritual pulse.)

[gb9]

Who have I passed judgment on personally? I've been personally judged by others on this thread and on another, but I have not judged (condemned) anyone personally. I have generally condemned the behavior and spirit of many Christians in the times in which we are living, as the Bible itself does, and warned of God's forthcoming judgment on Christians who are in rebellion against Him and who refuse to repent, which the Bible also does. A rebuke does not rest where it is not deserved, and I do not know who it applies to personally here. It is a general warning.

Either what I have said is true or it isn't. If you're convinced that it isn't, why not go your way? If it is true and applicable to you, do whatever you need to do about it. If you're not sure whether it is or whether it isn't, take it to the Lord with clean hands and a good conscience toward Him and ask Him to show you. What's the problem?

You called yourself (and other people on this thread) "rebels", a judgment I never made of you or of anyone else. I certainly hope that that isn't true, and I don't know the Lord's judgment of you personally. Hopefully you know it for yourself.

If the things I've been saying on this thread don't apply to you, don't worry about them. If they do, do something about it. I don't need to know whether they do or whether they don't.

If your conscience toward God truly is clear and you're doing everything you know He wants you to do and have peace with Him, there's no reason to take issue with what I've been saying, which agrees with the things that the Scriptures themselves say about the condition of the majority of saints in the last days.

(You can refer to the questions I asked PennEd in my last post.)

As for acting as though I know everyone on this thread or me thinking that I know everything, that is your opinion, impression, and assumption, which you are entitled to, but it is not true.

(And "Judge not lest ye be judged" concerns hypocrisy, not making certain kinds of judgments about other people, which is appropriate to do in some cases. The Bible teaches us to make judgments about people for various reasons, but not to be hypocrites, or to condemn when it is not in our authority to do so.)

you see, I have been around here a long time. I have interacted with a lot of different people. but, a lot of what is said is basically the same. anytime some one says " I only quote and believe Scripture " or " I only speak the words of God/Christ " or " I know Scripture " or any variation is either a works salvationist / legalist or sinless perfectionist.

so, as long as you understand that you are not sinless, and have no moral high ground to stand on to shout down to anyone, then that is fine. as long as you understand and agree with this. do you?

 

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

Apparently being a Christian and being saved should be easy peasy. And saying you are already one of the elite going to heaven is a matter of just stating firmly that you have a golden ticket (and THEM them and them don't). It's like you can break one law and you don't break all of them. Reminds me of something I read somewhere.

LightsShineInTheDarkness I think your intent is well-meaning, don't let anyone defile that (try to poison your view of yourself and distort the purity of what you are trying to say).

If someone informs you (without informing you) let me have the last word, let them have the last word. Right at the beginning. No need to waste energy in pointless chatter.

It is hard accepting different or opposite views. But accepting each other as being allowed to have our own views - that is love, that is loving other people. That's the tricky part, until we press the stop button and observe what is actually going on.

All I can do is declare and share those things which the Lord has made known to me and given me to declare and share. The reception of that truth by others (and what they think of me) is between them and Him. It's not arrogant to declare something to be true when it is, just because others may not know that it is. If it's true, it will be proven so, whether or not anyone else knows it or believes it or agrees with it.

(People who believe that there is another way to heaven besides Christ may think that Christians are arrogant for insisting that He is the only way. But it's the truth. The fact that God has not shown many people this doesn't make it untrue, nor does it make those who know this truth arrogant for knowing it and declaring it with confidence. The truth is the truth, and it will be proven as such, regardless of how many people believe it.)

As far as my interactions with others go, I use the Lord's judgment in terms of who I reply to and how. And I know the Lord's judgments of me personally, and make those my concern and consolation.

Thanks for your concern.

 

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

you see, I have been around here a long time. I have interacted with a lot of different people. but, a lot of what is said is basically the same. anytime some one says " I only quote and believe Scripture " or " I only speak the words of God/Christ " or " I know Scripture " or any variation is either a works salvationist / legalist or sinless perfectionist.

so, as long as you understand that you are not sinless, and have no moral high ground to stand on to shout down to anyone, then that is fine. as long as you understand and agree with this. do you?

I addressed this question in my post on the definition of apostasy on this thread. So rather than repeating myself (which I do a lot, as you may have noticed), you can read that.

 

[gb9]

I addressed this question in my post on the definition of apostasy on this thread. So rather than repeating myself (which I do a lot, as you may have noticed), you can read that.

I did not ask you for a definition of apostasy. I asked you if you think you are sinless. ( you are not no one is ). do you care to answer this?

 

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

I did not ask you for a definition of apostasy. I asked you if you think you are sinless. ( you are not no one is ). do you care to answer this?

That post answers the question you asked and will give you a thorough answer, both to the question you have asked and to other questions you have not asked which relate to it. Whether you read it or not is up to you. My answer to you is there.

 

[preacher4truth]

Who have I passed judgment on personally? I've been personally judged by others on this thread and on another, but I have not judged (condemned) anyone personally.

Uh-huh.

...most Christians don't love Him.

Sure, you don't condemn anyone, personally, you just condemn most Christians with one broad brush false accusation thereby condemning many at once in shotgun fashion.

Your OP does the very same, and has no biblical support given, just your opinion which was aimed at everyone, but not you.

And you're offended that no one is offended about it.

Which tells me your target hasn't been hit, because you were expecting people on here to be "apostate" and then defend themselves from your accusations so you could get into a knock down drag out fight with them. It appears you want there to be these false apostates so you can have a little fun with them and point down at alleged "apostate Christians" (who don't exist.)

Well, didn't happen.

Now what? Christian dialog? Edification? Unity? Love? Rejoicing? Praise?

 

[preacher4truth]

Just for the record, here is a good resource for some to consider that actually has a point:

http://www.chapellibrary.org/files/3813/7658/4069/tiat.pdf

Also here free for Kindle:

https://www.amazon.com/Ten-Indictme...ords=10+indictments+against+the+modern+church

 

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

Uh-huh.



Sure, you don't condemn anyone, personally, you just condemn most Christians with one broad brush false accusation thereby condemning many at once in shotgun fashion.

Your OP does the very same, and has no biblical support given, just your opinion which was aimed at everyone, but not you.

And you're offended that no one is offended about it.

Which tells me your target hasn't been hit, because you were expecting people on here to be "apostate" and then defend themselves from your accusations so you could get into a knock down drag out fight with them. It appears you want there to be these false apostates so you can have a little fun with them and point down at alleged "apostate Christians" (which don't exist.

Well, didn't happen.

Now what? Christian dialog? Edification? Unity? Love? Rejoicing? Praise?

The evidence that what is written in 2 Timothy 3:1-5 applies to the majority of Christians today does not require prophetic insight, just spiritual maturity and God-given discernment, by personal observation.

(I'm not the only Christian who is observing this and knows this; not that it would matter if I was.)

Jesus said that a wicked and adulterous generation does not recognize the signs of the times. I have said, and I maintain, that if you do not recognize that you are in the midst of the falling away of the last days which precedes the antichrist's revealing, you are likely a part of that falling away.

The Christians at Laodicea didn't realize their wretched spiritual condition. And they were in such bad shape that they were about to be vomited out of Christ. (One has to be in Christ first in order to be vomited out of Him.)

The Bible says that the things that were written in the Old Testament were written down for our instruction (for whose instruction?): For those on whom the end of the ages has come. That's us. (1 Corinthians 10:11) And in this same passage it says, "With MOST of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness." (1 Corinthians 10:5)

Look at the Old Testament prophets for example, Jeremiah in particular, which parallels the events and prevailing spirit of our time, and what happened to the majority of God's people at that time. How were the majority of God's people in the time of the OT prophets? And the majority of God's people today have the same spirit.

It's only a matter of time before these things prove themselves to be true.

I'm not going to address your other accusations as there's no point.

 

[stonesoffire]

I hear it's three strikes and you're out.

Or... wait, maybe that's a different kind of game with three strikes. Maybe here it's one strike.

Anyway, I don't run into any of them... but if I DID, would I be able to recognize it? If I'm an apostate christian, would I recognize the flaws in my life. For that matter, does anybody, even a REAL christian, recognize the flaws in his own life?

And speaking of flaws, I notice there was nothing in that list about judging other people... Bible does say a few things about that.

No, you're right. Bill Clinton made that law. Or so I've heard.

 

[preacher4truth]

The evidence that

Your problem is seeing goats as sheep, and trying to make them obey accordingly.

Did you read the book I linked to above? It's short and it's good. You should read it.

 

[Mem]

I had asked a question in another thread which seemed to imply that receiving the Holy Spirit was insufficient for salvation, but it was either overlooked, dismissed as unworthy of answer, or simply ignored. Perhaps it might be answered here, since it seems the same inference is being implied? Is receiving the Holy Spirit sufficient for salvation, or no?

 

[stonesoffire]

I had asked a question in another thread which seemed to imply that receiving the Holy Spirit was insufficient for salvation, but it was either overlooked, dismissed as unworthy of answer, or simply ignored. Perhaps it might be answered here, since it seems the same inference is being implied? Is receiving the Holy Spirit sufficient for salvation, or no?

? Without Holy Spirit at work within, we are just dust. I don't really understand how one could pose this question. More info needed.

 

[Mem]

? Without Holy Spirit at work within, we are just dust. I don't really understand how one could pose this question. More info needed.

It is being suggested the one may lose the Holy Spirit after having received Him, thereby losing one's salvation.

 

[Lynx]

To be honest, you generally are offended about people taking a stance on Biblical doctrine, then go off on a tirade. But I still love ya man!

Nah, that's your job (and you do it thoroughly) so I'll leave you to it.

I just wish you people would hold these arguments in the BDF. Seems the misc. forum is getting some seepage, or maybe backwash.

 

[breno785au]

The evidence that what is written in 2 Timothy 3:1-5 applies to the majority of Christians today does not require prophetic insight, just spiritual maturity and God-given discernment, by personal observation.

(I'm not the only Christian who is observing this and knows this; not that it would matter if I was.)

Jesus said that a wicked and adulterous generation does not recognize the signs of the times. I have said, and I maintain, that if you do not recognize that you are in the midst of the falling away of the last days which precedes the antichrist's revealing, you are likely a part of that falling away.

The Christians at Laodicea didn't realize their wretched spiritual condition. And they were in such bad shape that they were about to be vomited out of Christ. (One has to be in Christ first in order to be vomited out of Him.)

The Bible says that the things that were written in the Old Testament were written down for our instruction (for whose instruction?): For those on whom the end of the ages has come. That's us. (1 Corinthians 10:11) And in this same passage it says, "With MOST of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness." (1 Corinthians 10:5)

Look at the Old Testament prophets for example, Jeremiah in particular, which parallels the events and prevailing spirit of our time, and what happened to the majority of God's people at that time. How were the majority of God's people in the time of the OT prophets? And the majority of God's people today have the same spirit.

It's only a matter of time before these things prove themselves to be true.

I'm not going to address your other accusations as there's no point.

Lol the end of verse 5 says to stay away from people like that, well, off you go then.

It actually requires discernment to know who he is speaking of, it is not majority Christians as you think.

 

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

Lol the end of verse 5 says to stay away from people like that, well, off you go then.

It actually requires discernment to know who he is speaking of, it is not majority Christians as you think.

The fact that other Christians are told to avoid Christians like these does not prove in any way that the apostate Christians are in the minority.

The Bible speaks plenty about the falling away of Christians in the last days. It does not speak about the majority of Christians being in a good spiritual condition in the last days. Now if the majority of Christians would not be in a state of apostasy in the last days, don't you think God would have spoken more about the good and less about the bad, or at least addressed them equally? But we do not find this. There is no such balance. The emphasis of the Scriptures is on apostasy, because that is the prevailing condition of His people in the last days, just as it was in the days of the OT prophets, which are given to us as an example for our time (besides the relevant prophecies for our time which they contain).

So here is what the Scriptures DO say about Christians in the last days:

Because of the increase of lawlessness the love of many/most will grow cold. (Matt 24:12)
*Proof that this is talking about Christians: The unsaved have no love for God to grow cold. Only Christians do.

People will not endure sound doctrine, but will gather teachers to themselves to tell them what they want to hear. They will turn away from the truth and wander off into myths (like a pre-tribulation rapture for example). (2 Timothy 4:3)
*Proof that this is talking about Christians: The unsaved never have put up with sound doctrine.

People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, proud, arrogant...lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)
*Proof that this is talking about Christians: The unsaved have always been like this. (See the 1st chapter of Romans.) Christians today have a form of godliness that isn't based on the New Testament alone; much of it is man-made and artificial---a substitute for the real thing. They deny the power of true godliness (God's grace) by not using it, as their works mentioned above bear witness. They could be using it, but they are choosing not to---because they are lovers of themselves, lovers of money, lovers of pleasure rather than God, proud, etc.

God is going to judge His household. (1 Peter 4:17)
(Why would God judge His household if His people were doing what was pleasing to Him? We know why He judged His people in the past: Because they were rebelling against Him and wouldn't repent.)

False teachers, with hearts trained in greed, will arise teaching heresies and enticing people who are "barely escaping" (apostate Christians) from those who live in error (unsaved people), with promises of "freedom" (sound like any teachers you know?) and sensual passions of the flesh. ("Hey, it's okay to have a good time; enjoy yourself. God loves you; He wants you to be happy. Be rich. Play. Live it up. Better things are coming when you get to heaven! Don't worry so much about sin. God forgives you. We all sin all the time anyway. It's natural; we can't help it." Blah, blah, blah...) See 2 Peter chapter 2.
*How do we know this is talking about Christians, and about people who were once saved but forfeited their salvation and are now false teachers? Because they "forsook the right way" (they were on it; they turned out of it). They knew the way of righteousness and turned back from the gospel, (which includes obedience to Christ after being saved by Him). They were washed of their sins by the blood of Christ, but chose to return to them and not to remain in Him (which all Christians have a choice to do after coming to be in Him).

Jude mentions the same things: Teachers perverting the grace of God into a license for sensuality, and who deny Jesus Christ. (Christians wouldn't listen to a man who said he didn't believe in Jesus, flat out, but they would listen to one who preaches a different Jesus by the same name. And they do; receiving false teachings about how God is and what He does and doesn't do, what He desires, what He approves of, and who He accepts. Saying "I believe in Jesus" or "Jesus is the Christ" is a ticket in the door: Then you can teach whatever you want---mixing truth with error.) False teachers who are "twice-dead" and "uprooted", "wandering stars", who were saved but are no longer, leading others astray.
(You have to have been brought from death to life and then have died again to be "twice dead"; you have to have been planted in God's land to be "uprooted" out of it.)

What else does the Bible say about Christians in the last days?

A host of saints will be given over to the antichrist (by God) because of transgression (rebellion) to be "trampled"; and the place of God's sanctuary will be overthrown. (Daniel 8:10-14) The sanctuary given over to the antichrist because of transgression is the Church, and the host is the saints (both men and women). This is mentioned in Revelation 11:1,2 also.

What else does the Bible say about Christians in the last days?

They will be in rebellion against God. (2 Thessalonians 2:3)
(The unsaved have always been in rebellion against God; that's nothing new. The "rebels"---those "falling away" from Christ are Christians, as the other scriptures corroborate.)

The antichrist will make war with the saints and will be allowed to prevail over/conquer them. (Daniel 7:21; Revelation 13:7)
(Why would God allow the antichrist to conquer/prevail over His own people? Answer: It's His judgment on them for forsaking Him.)

Now, in light of the fact that the state of Christians in the last days is overwhelmingly characterized as bad, by the Scriptures, and that what the Scriptures talk about happening to them in the last days is also bad, what makes you think the majority of the saints are doing what pleases God? Where are the counterbalancing scriptures to show that the apostates are in the minority? If this were the case, or if it was an even balance, why doesn't the Bible mention that? It doesn't.

If God wanted us to know that there were a lot of Christians doing the right thing in the last days, don't you think He would have seen fit to include that along with the bad? He describes the bad, again, and again, and again. Where is the good?

(Where was the good in Jeremiah's time?)

On a positive note, even though most Christians will be overthrown during the Tribulation, many of us will conquer, by the mercy of God---hence the great throng of martyrs described in Revelation 7---saints who wash their robes (repent of those sins they need to repent of), and who God supports because they do, giving them the grace to lay their lives down for Jesus, only to take them up again in victory.

And those few faithful Christians who remain on the earth by God's will until Christ's return on the last day of the Tribulation will be raptured, just as the Bible says.

Will the Lord find faith on the earth when He returns? Not much. Most will perish spiritually during the Tribulation, for the reason already mentioned; and most of the rest will be martyred.

(My advice to you, and to all, is to make sure you're on the winning side of the battle we're about to enter. If you need to, wash your robe. Judgment is about to begin with God's household. Many have already been judged; it's only a matter of time before the judgment is manifested.)

For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to give strong support to those whose heart is blameless toward Him. (2 Chronicles 16:9)

 

[Speak2Me]

o.k, so you have all the answers, and you are here to lecture and preach to us rebels ( who you do not know anything about, but you act like you do).

ever here of judge not, and you shall not be judged?

I didn't see her call you by name.

I'm not a rebel, so I know she's not talking to me.

Maybe you don't like what she's saying because it's true.

Her statements don't bother me at all. No biggie.

Besides, if you guys want to correct someone, there's plenty of self-righteous people on CC who act like total morons.

Why don't you'ins do us all a favor & find them?

 

[Speak2Me]

Lol the end of verse 5 says to stay away from people like that, well, off you go then.

It actually requires discernment to know who he is speaking of, it is not majority Christians as you think.

So you don't think the majority will fall away during the apostasy?

Jesus said "few there be that find it." He said that over 2000 yrs ago. How much less in these days?

 

[gb9]

all right. point taken. i'm out.

 

[Angela53510]

Nah, that's your job (and you do it thoroughly) so I'll leave you to it.

I just wish you people would hold these arguments in the BDF. Seems the misc. forum is getting some seepage, or maybe backwash.

I certainly came here to escape the tirades, nonsense and legalism, to say nothing of the #37 post that has been revived in the BDF, and I’m disappointed to find this kind of post here, too! Unless, as P4T noted, there really is no Scripture in the OP. Hence no Biblical basis for posting in the BDF! (Not that it has ever stopped anyone before!)

So here are some important words from Jesus, that you obviously forgot. I didn’t see hide nor hair of any hint of what Jesus says he will judge us by! I would just quote this, and leave it at that. And no more personal revelations. Kind of a thing I can’t stand!

”When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matt 25:31-46

Who are the righteous? Those who care for the hungry, thirsty, naked, sick and in prison! Interesting perspective, isn’t it?