Not By Works
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R
Note that in the Matthew 24 passage those people go to the place of damnation. While the people Paul talked about in 1 Corinthians 3 do not. These do not teach or even allude to a doctrine of being able to 'live in' your old unchanged life and still being saved, and being saved to a lower level of salvation. They can't because that would contradict John especially who said the unchanged person is the unsaved person.
The mistake people are making is thinking this means you can remain unchanged in your old life of prostitution, or whatever, and you will be saved when Jesus comes back as long as you're not trying to earn your salvation.
Don't know. But one thing I do know. These people are not people who lived unchanged in their old lives but were saved despite how they lived because John said people who are doing that are not born again. They show by how they live that they do not know Christ in a born again experience.
If only you knew how untrue this is of me. It's for the very reason that I did NOT do this that I'm now saying things right out of the Bible for which people are excluding me for. Which is a good sign by the way. I'm disrupting the status quo and all who have decided they have the truth right where they are at and treat with contempt anyone who tries to show them different. I used to be like them to some extent. I was not as vicious and defensive as several are in this thread. But I used to think my way was the correct way until I started listening to others with respect. I learned lots by doing that. Mostly I learned how far the church has departed from the Bible.
The mistake people are making is thinking this means you can remain unchanged in your old life of prostitution, or whatever, and you will be saved when Jesus comes back as long as you're not trying to earn your salvation.
Don't know. But one thing I do know. These people are not people who lived unchanged in their old lives but were saved despite how they lived because John said people who are doing that are not born again. They show by how they live that they do not know Christ in a born again experience.
If only you knew how untrue this is of me. It's for the very reason that I did NOT do this that I'm now saying things right out of the Bible for which people are excluding me for. Which is a good sign by the way. I'm disrupting the status quo and all who have decided they have the truth right where they are at and treat with contempt anyone who tries to show them different. I used to be like them to some extent. I was not as vicious and defensive as several are in this thread. But I used to think my way was the correct way until I started listening to others with respect. I learned lots by doing that. Mostly I learned how far the church has departed from the Bible.
R
The part where you go wrong is you think that being saved by grace means nothing you do from that point onward changes that you were saved in the beginning. You said so yourself.
But John said if you are unchanged in your old life you are a son of the devil, not God. You did not get born again. You will not be saved when Jesus returns. Your confession of faith did not result in salvation. We know that by if a person changes or not. That is what the Bible says. I'm being attacked and excluded for what the Bible says. Which is a good thing. Jesus said I am blessed-Luke 6:22.
What you have to do is check to make sure you are not one of those who just thinks they have the grace of God in salvation. If you or I have God's grace it will show in our lives in a turning away from sin, not living in it with impunity. We all need to examine ourselves to make sure we have God's grace in salvation so we will not surprised on the day Christ returns and beg for entry into the kingdom. If you say what you do does not matter to whether you really got saved or not, and you then live anyway you want thinking that, then you are showing that you belong to the evil one and are not Christ's possession. Test yourself to see which is true of you. Look at your life. And see if you're really capable of producing the fruit of the kingdom in your life. All of us must do this. It's called making your calling and election sure to yourself. It's right in the Bible.
But John said if you are unchanged in your old life you are a son of the devil, not God. You did not get born again. You will not be saved when Jesus returns. Your confession of faith did not result in salvation. We know that by if a person changes or not. That is what the Bible says. I'm being attacked and excluded for what the Bible says. Which is a good thing. Jesus said I am blessed-Luke 6:22.
What you have to do is check to make sure you are not one of those who just thinks they have the grace of God in salvation. If you or I have God's grace it will show in our lives in a turning away from sin, not living in it with impunity. We all need to examine ourselves to make sure we have God's grace in salvation so we will not surprised on the day Christ returns and beg for entry into the kingdom. If you say what you do does not matter to whether you really got saved or not, and you then live anyway you want thinking that, then you are showing that you belong to the evil one and are not Christ's possession. Test yourself to see which is true of you. Look at your life. And see if you're really capable of producing the fruit of the kingdom in your life. All of us must do this. It's called making your calling and election sure to yourself. It's right in the Bible.
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Some people say they cannot abstain from sin,but by the Spirit we can,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,but this is what seals the saints that they depart from iniquity,and Paul said awake to righteousness,and sin not,but some have not the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame,and a person will be cut off if they do not continue in the goodness of God.
Paul said if anybody believes that God blesses with money and material things for their wants,withdraw yourselves from them,having food and clothing be content,and Paul said they have erred from the faith,and James,their faith is dead,and John,the love of God does not dwell in them.
But among people that say faith alone we witness hypocrisy all the while they think they are alright.
For that is a big belief among them that they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,and the prosperity Gospel that neglects the poor and needy.
And it cannot be denied for we see it in society,and if they believe those things there will be hypocrisy among them for they believe they are alright despite enjoying sin,and their wants.
Paul said if anybody believes that God blesses with money and material things for their wants,withdraw yourselves from them,having food and clothing be content,and Paul said they have erred from the faith,and James,their faith is dead,and John,the love of God does not dwell in them.
But among people that say faith alone we witness hypocrisy all the while they think they are alright.
For that is a big belief among them that they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,and the prosperity Gospel that neglects the poor and needy.
And it cannot be denied for we see it in society,and if they believe those things there will be hypocrisy among them for they believe they are alright despite enjoying sin,and their wants.
R
You are the one with the cafe blend false gospel. You say you don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back using at least four Biblical examples that supposedly defend that (I showed they do not), and then you say in another post that the believer will have works. I posted two different parts of our conversation that showed you defending the teaching that you do not have to have works to be saved, yet you continue to deny you said it. Which blend of gospel will we get from your next post?
J
nooooooooo,being saved doesn't mean you can "be lazy" because God/Jesus will have you "work" when you are "his" but even so we are not saved through anything "we do" to earn salvation it is "a gift",only obtained through "absolute belief" in Jesus,and accepting him as saviour after all ye know it is written"none come to father except through the son".
R
James 2:19 says the demons believe God is one. It's the religious mantra of the unsaved, unregenerate Jew-Deuteronomy 6:4. They think uttering the sacred mantra shows they are somehow right with God. Big deal, even demons believe that God is one. It shows nothing.
Their religious lip service does not save them. Their 'faith' without works can not save them. James is saying this so we can discern if we are merely uttering the religious lip service of the Christian faith (oh, God's grace is so awesome, etc.) but are not truly saved as evidenced by our disobedience to the commands of God. There are people here lurking who will hear this and take it to heart, not attack me for saying what the Bible says. They will take it to Jesus and find mercy and grace. They will not turn to me instead and attack me for telling them the truth.
Their religious lip service does not save them. Their 'faith' without works can not save them. James is saying this so we can discern if we are merely uttering the religious lip service of the Christian faith (oh, God's grace is so awesome, etc.) but are not truly saved as evidenced by our disobedience to the commands of God. There are people here lurking who will hear this and take it to heart, not attack me for saying what the Bible says. They will take it to Jesus and find mercy and grace. They will not turn to me instead and attack me for telling them the truth.
Do you enjoy it when you sin? Or, are you one of those who will say you never sin, in which case, the Bible says you are deceived, and that the Truth is not in you? Or, are you one of those who will say, you stumble occasionally and fall into sin, but with the help of the Holy Spirit of God, you are able to correct yourself? While you look on others who stumble, and claim they were never saved?
R
Oh, by the way. Everyone knows this. No need to even go here.
Let's talk about the part where people say you WILL have works after believing, but if you don't (notice the contradiction) it's still okay, because salvation is not by works, so you'll still be saved when Jesus comes back. Let's talk about this double mindedness in the church today.
Let's talk about the part where people say you WILL have works after believing, but if you don't (notice the contradiction) it's still okay, because salvation is not by works, so you'll still be saved when Jesus comes back. Let's talk about this double mindedness in the church today.
R
The issue is with people who defend 'living in' sin unchanged and calling that the grace of God, not with people who stumble but who go back to life in the Spirit.
'
I agree with John who said the person who is not changed is not saved. The beef is with God, not us. Everybody who is convicted about living in a certain sin, or sins, needs to go to Him, not attack the messenger who brought the message.
'
I agree with John who said the person who is not changed is not saved. The beef is with God, not us. Everybody who is convicted about living in a certain sin, or sins, needs to go to Him, not attack the messenger who brought the message.
R
Good, let's just hope these unbelievers who have come to salvation by grace through faith, if that really happened, don't just end up being twice the son of hell.
We, and they, will know if they really got saved by grace by how they live from here on out. If they do not change they will be showing they either did not really accept God's grace in salvation, or were taught an inaccurate gospel of God's grace that says they do not have to change as evidence of the grace they received to be saved when Jesus comes back.
The proof is in the pudding. They will show by their lives if they really got born again or not. No proof-no salvation. Wisdom is proved right by her children-Luke 7:35.
We, and they, will know if they really got saved by grace by how they live from here on out. If they do not change they will be showing they either did not really accept God's grace in salvation, or were taught an inaccurate gospel of God's grace that says they do not have to change as evidence of the grace they received to be saved when Jesus comes back.
The proof is in the pudding. They will show by their lives if they really got born again or not. No proof-no salvation. Wisdom is proved right by her children-Luke 7:35.
R
You and others say it when you claim that nothing you do can change the salvation you received when you first believed. But you hide this admission by glossing over the matter by then insisting that saved people WILL have works. Which one do you really believe? Can you live in your old unchanged life and still be saved? Answer the question.
R
Walk in these and you will not be guilty of wrong doing before God-Galatians 5:22-23.
I'm not discrediting him. I'm pointing out to Calvinists/semi-Calvinists that THEY are discrediting the one who's doctrine of eternal security they say they believe.
They defend people who are living in their old unchanged lives as being saved while saying they believe Calvin's doctrine of eternal security which says people who live in their old ways, or returns to them, was never really saved to begin with. It's a contradiction of beliefs.
Classical Calvinism is being replaced by the new eternal security doctrine of 'what you do does not matter toward if you'll be considered a believer or an unbeliever when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works, the only thing that counts is that you believe'. That's not what the Bible says. And neither does Calvin's doctrine of eternal security which so many claim to believe.
I'm not discrediting him. I'm pointing out to Calvinists/semi-Calvinists that THEY are discrediting the one who's doctrine of eternal security they say they believe.
They defend people who are living in their old unchanged lives as being saved while saying they believe Calvin's doctrine of eternal security which says people who live in their old ways, or returns to them, was never really saved to begin with. It's a contradiction of beliefs.
Classical Calvinism is being replaced by the new eternal security doctrine of 'what you do does not matter toward if you'll be considered a believer or an unbeliever when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works, the only thing that counts is that you believe'. That's not what the Bible says. And neither does Calvin's doctrine of eternal security which so many claim to believe.
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Hello and good morning, Joseph. Unfortunately, there are those who repeatedly lie and misrepresent, even changing the words of Scripture. Becoming conformed to the image of Christ that we may give glory to God is sometimes called the process of sanctification, and is ongoing throughout our life, after being justified by faith. Matt Slick of CARM says it this way:
Justification is the work of God where the righteousness of Jesus is reckoned to the sinner, so the sinner is declared by God as being righteous under the Law (Rom. 4:3; 5:1,9; Gal. 2:16; 3:11). This righteousness is not earned or retained by any effort of the saved.
Justification is an instantaneous occurrence with the result being eternal life. It is based completely and solely upon Jesus' sacrifice on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24) and is received by faith alone (Eph. 2:8-9). No works are necessary whatsoever to obtain justification. Otherwise, it is not a gift (Rom. 6:23). Therefore, we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1).
Justification is an instantaneous occurrence with the result being eternal life. It is based completely and solely upon Jesus' sacrifice on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24) and is received by faith alone (Eph. 2:8-9). No works are necessary whatsoever to obtain justification. Otherwise, it is not a gift (Rom. 6:23). Therefore, we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1).