Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Disobedience is unbelief. If one has timidity and doesn't step out in faith to do what is being prompted to do, its unbelief in some form. Is this unforgivable? No, for shame and sorrow accompanies this followed by repentance. This way is a learning process.
Rejection which is dosobedience to the command that in these days all men is to repent and turn to God. This unbelief is the disobedience that will bring the wrath of God forever.
Now lightbearer. I know you study. Have you not seen this command? The commandment that God has not just given to Jews, but to all men?
if one does not believe in eternal security, which is because God has reckoned all mankind dead and only alive in His offering of His Son, then all kinds of fear will remain with twisting and turning from the simple truth of the great salvation of God through the Cross of His Son ONLY!
Then we begin true life in Him. With rewards or none in glory. But the light of the world lighting up our spirit is and always will be free.
Rejection which is dosobedience to the command that in these days all men is to repent and turn to God. This unbelief is the disobedience that will bring the wrath of God forever.
Now lightbearer. I know you study. Have you not seen this command? The commandment that God has not just given to Jews, but to all men?
if one does not believe in eternal security, which is because God has reckoned all mankind dead and only alive in His offering of His Son, then all kinds of fear will remain with twisting and turning from the simple truth of the great salvation of God through the Cross of His Son ONLY!
Then we begin true life in Him. With rewards or none in glory. But the light of the world lighting up our spirit is and always will be free.
[FONT="]Romans 4:2[/FONT]
[FONT="]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereofto glory; but not before God.
[FONT="]Romans 14:22[/FONT]
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy ishe that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
[FONT="]Romans 4:17[/FONT]
(as it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
[FONT="]1 Corinthians 4:5[/FONT]
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God
[FONT="]Galatians 5:21[/FONT]
envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Those above do not see in appreciation and have not seen what those things are done are just not beneficial to them. But once one in belief sees this, then one agrees to leave it behind and does in time as I am an Ex-Alcoholic and Druggie over 30 years ago now, and have left other things also behind as I grow up in the grace given me to see. I get worked on from Father in risen Son one problem at a time, and he does for me what I can not do by works of self ever.
This I now know by What Paul wrote in Gal 2:20-21
[FONT="]Hebrews 11:5[/FONT]
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
By FAiTH you all, works were done, but not his own!
[FONT="]Revelation 3:2[/FONT]
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
So remain in Faith Trust, it is done as in John 19:30, where Jesus stated it is finished. What is Finished?
Ask that to Father personally to hear truth over error of this world
Now as far as James goes in telling us Faith is dead without works, that is true.
Now which works is James speaking of?
Yours to get God pleased and save you?
Or God's done work through you, in love and mercy to everyone, whether another is in belief or not?
are we getting this, what turns anyone willingly to the truth, is it Love and mercy or tyranny you better or else attitudes of flesh nature?
Work yes is involved, but it is none of mine to be praised for it. It is Father' even as the Christ said this too.
Thank You all for being in willing belief to see or not yet
[/FONT]
[FONT="]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereofto glory; but not before God.
[FONT="]Romans 14:22[/FONT]
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy ishe that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
[FONT="]Romans 4:17[/FONT]
(as it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
[FONT="]1 Corinthians 4:5[/FONT]
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God
[FONT="]Galatians 5:21[/FONT]
envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Those above do not see in appreciation and have not seen what those things are done are just not beneficial to them. But once one in belief sees this, then one agrees to leave it behind and does in time as I am an Ex-Alcoholic and Druggie over 30 years ago now, and have left other things also behind as I grow up in the grace given me to see. I get worked on from Father in risen Son one problem at a time, and he does for me what I can not do by works of self ever.
This I now know by What Paul wrote in Gal 2:20-21
[FONT="]Hebrews 11:5[/FONT]
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
By FAiTH you all, works were done, but not his own!
[FONT="]Revelation 3:2[/FONT]
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
So remain in Faith Trust, it is done as in John 19:30, where Jesus stated it is finished. What is Finished?
Ask that to Father personally to hear truth over error of this world
Now as far as James goes in telling us Faith is dead without works, that is true.
Now which works is James speaking of?
Yours to get God pleased and save you?
Or God's done work through you, in love and mercy to everyone, whether another is in belief or not?
are we getting this, what turns anyone willingly to the truth, is it Love and mercy or tyranny you better or else attitudes of flesh nature?
Work yes is involved, but it is none of mine to be praised for it. It is Father' even as the Christ said this too.
Thank You all for being in willing belief to see or not yet
[/FONT]
That reveals these were not ever saved by that denominational or non-denominational Church. For there is a lot of no truth spoken in and out of places that claim belief
WHAT??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
[h=1]2 Corinthians 11:10-22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it isno great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. 17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. 18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. 19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. 21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also. 22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Philippians 3:1-20Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Turning my boasting into humility to see the King's lead , ot mine, thank You Father for this rest given [/FONT]
WHAT??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
[h=1]2 Corinthians 11:10-22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it isno great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. 17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. 18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. 19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. 21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also. 22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Philippians 3:1-20Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Turning my boasting into humility to see the King's lead , ot mine, thank You Father for this rest given [/FONT]
U
It is just like Ralphie to be waiting of for the Little Orphan Annie secret decoder pen, aka ....am I saved or not..how many works do I need or which sin will sink my ship?
Ralphie was pretty disappointed when he read the secret message.
"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine"
Thankfully, God doesn't keep us guessing or keep it a secret from us.
Ralphie was pretty disappointed when he read the secret message.
"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine"
Thankfully, God doesn't keep us guessing or keep it a secret from us.
This is Biblical indeed! Not so much that they never knew Christ, but that they do not know Him enough ... Budman is trying to fit common sense into Righteousness but nothing that Jesus Christ ever said is common sense, but is revelation sense, and is complete, whereas common sense falls short. Hence the absolute need for the Holy Spirits lead in all of our thinking as we must first sense the spirit then think accordingly.
Yet, faith must be tested and tried before it becomes real in your life. “We know that all things work together for good…” (Romans 8:28) so that no matter what happens, the transforming power of God’s providence transforms perfect faith into reality. Faith always works in a personal way, because the purpose of God is to see that perfect faith is made real in His children.
For every detail of common sense in life, there is a truth God has revealed by which we can prove in our practical experience what we believe God to be. Faith is a tremendously active principle that always puts Jesus Christ first. The life of faith says, “Lord, You have said it, it appears to be irrational, but I’m going to step out boldly, trusting in Your Word” (for example, see Matthew 6:33).
Turning intellectual faith (placing our minds in Christ based on spiritual guidance) into our personal possession is always a fight, not just sometimes. God brings us into particular circumstances to educate our faith, because the nature of faith is to make the object of our faith very real to us. Until we know Jesus, God is merely a concept, and we can’t have faith in Him. But once we hear Jesus say, “He who has seen Me has seen the Father” (John 14:9) we immediately have something that is real, and our faith is limitless. Faith is the entire person in the right relationship with God through the power of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
The root of faith is the knowledge of a Person, and one of the biggest snares is the idea that God is sure to lead us to success. At least one of the reasons why God creates man is that He in His capacity as the Creator does not Himself want to drive out a created being - Satan. Man is to do this in demonstrating God's glory of Christ's victory on the Cross. At the beginning God charged man to keep the Garden of Eden, thus indicating there was an enemy around. The dominion which He gave to man was the dominion which He formerly assigned to the archangel Lucifer who later turned himself into Satan (The devil in relationship to man).
The Serpent was cursed to eat dust all the days of its life. As man was made of dust, so he came under the power of Satan.
The first man Adam failed to cooperate with God. So God raised up the second man Christ to overcome Satan. The Lord Jesus redeems us, His people, by means of His death. As He Himself has done the will of the Father, so He unites all who are saved to Himself (not to a saved reformed human outside of Christ), in order that together they may exalt God, do God's will, and defeat Satan's kingdom. As we are in Christ, these form the second man who causes the will of God to be done on earth as it is done in Heaven.
Thus, We are very active in this process we call faithful living - physically, mentally, emotionally, willfully, and personally; alongside Christ Jesus our Lord. Thus, as we are owned by God: God initiates spiritually; man involves himself in prayer and obedience; God accomplishes.
(Ezekiel 36:26,37) gives us a great principle. God says first that He will give the house of Israel a new heart and next He says that He will be inquired of by them (prayer) to do it for them. He does it for us, by using us in obedience to Himself faithfully. If we are apart of the Kingdom of God our lives will bear its fruit.
Yet, faith must be tested and tried before it becomes real in your life. “We know that all things work together for good…” (Romans 8:28) so that no matter what happens, the transforming power of God’s providence transforms perfect faith into reality. Faith always works in a personal way, because the purpose of God is to see that perfect faith is made real in His children.
For every detail of common sense in life, there is a truth God has revealed by which we can prove in our practical experience what we believe God to be. Faith is a tremendously active principle that always puts Jesus Christ first. The life of faith says, “Lord, You have said it, it appears to be irrational, but I’m going to step out boldly, trusting in Your Word” (for example, see Matthew 6:33).
Turning intellectual faith (placing our minds in Christ based on spiritual guidance) into our personal possession is always a fight, not just sometimes. God brings us into particular circumstances to educate our faith, because the nature of faith is to make the object of our faith very real to us. Until we know Jesus, God is merely a concept, and we can’t have faith in Him. But once we hear Jesus say, “He who has seen Me has seen the Father” (John 14:9) we immediately have something that is real, and our faith is limitless. Faith is the entire person in the right relationship with God through the power of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
The root of faith is the knowledge of a Person, and one of the biggest snares is the idea that God is sure to lead us to success. At least one of the reasons why God creates man is that He in His capacity as the Creator does not Himself want to drive out a created being - Satan. Man is to do this in demonstrating God's glory of Christ's victory on the Cross. At the beginning God charged man to keep the Garden of Eden, thus indicating there was an enemy around. The dominion which He gave to man was the dominion which He formerly assigned to the archangel Lucifer who later turned himself into Satan (The devil in relationship to man).
The Serpent was cursed to eat dust all the days of its life. As man was made of dust, so he came under the power of Satan.
The first man Adam failed to cooperate with God. So God raised up the second man Christ to overcome Satan. The Lord Jesus redeems us, His people, by means of His death. As He Himself has done the will of the Father, so He unites all who are saved to Himself (not to a saved reformed human outside of Christ), in order that together they may exalt God, do God's will, and defeat Satan's kingdom. As we are in Christ, these form the second man who causes the will of God to be done on earth as it is done in Heaven.
Thus, We are very active in this process we call faithful living - physically, mentally, emotionally, willfully, and personally; alongside Christ Jesus our Lord. Thus, as we are owned by God: God initiates spiritually; man involves himself in prayer and obedience; God accomplishes.
(Ezekiel 36:26,37) gives us a great principle. God says first that He will give the house of Israel a new heart and next He says that He will be inquired of by them (prayer) to do it for them. He does it for us, by using us in obedience to Himself faithfully. If we are apart of the Kingdom of God our lives will bear its fruit.
Last edited:
Flat truth--->you are not telling the truth....end of story....I have said 50 plus times in this thread that the saved have works, have defined these works dia the word and anyone honest who can read will easily see that your lying....all Liars will have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimestone...I suggest you check yourself, because your lies do not indicate a saved child of God
That question has been asked many times.....still waiting for the magic number
Maybe you will get an answer...I will be waiting
Maybe you will get an answer...I will be waiting
AMEN
Amen and amen, He is faithful both to redeem and renew, a Gardner who knows how to nurture and produce a crop.
you were declared righteous and justified however by His blood, as you said - and this alone is sufficient to save you from death -- "and not only that" is in addition to having received redemption, He is faithful also to produce renewal!
you wouldn't be "lost" when He returns if there is truly "no condemnation" - why did you fear that He would not be with you? did you not believe in the righteousness He declared? will He condemn the righteous? but as you said, look, He is doing what He promised, which is more than the sufficiency of His sacrifice -- it is really good news and He is able to carry you through to completion