This term.. has been taken to mean a whole lot of things but what is it really?
Penny for your thoughts
Penny for your thoughts
Baptism of the Holy Spirit
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Well I can only go off of what happened to me when I was saved, when I was first saved I was filled and consumed by this amazingly strong fire it wasn't one that you can see with your eyes but you could see with you well I only know to call them spiritual eyes. this fire was abundantly filled with God's power love life itself, not energy or feeling alive but actual life itself, like if have you ever held your breath for a long time and then when you finally take in a breath for a split second it fills like life is being filled into your lungs? It was kind of like that except on a massively larger scale. The power love and life burned so strongly and so intensely and I will never ever forget it.
But honestly if I were imagine being baptized by the holy spirit I would think something like that might happen
But honestly if I were imagine being baptized by the holy spirit I would think something like that might happen
That's probably because you won't find "Baptism OF the Holy Spirit" in the Bible. What you will find is:
1. Baptism WITH the Holy Spirit. The Divine Baptizer is Christ. The baptism is the supernatural GIFT of the Holy Spirit to those who obey the Gospel.
2. Baptism BY the Holy Spirit. The Divine Baptizer is the Holy Spirit. The baptism is the supernatural JOINING of every believer to the Body of Christ, with Christ as the Head, and every believer a member of that Body.
However, Pentecostals and Charismatics speak of the "Baptism IN the Holy Spirit" which results in speaking in tongues. That topic has been discussed in other threads.
Acts 19:1-6 1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
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Quoting this passage without comment does not help anyone to understand what happened and why it happened. For whatever reason, there are A FEW instances in the Acts of the Apostles recorded that when Gentiles believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, they spoke in tongues. Those converted in the household of Cornelius is another example. It would appear that this manifestation was for the sake of the Jews who needed to learn that God was also saving Gentiles, and the proof that the gift of the Holy Spirit was given to them was their ability to speak in GENUINE FOREIGN LANGUAGES supernaturally. Bible tongues are invariably languages, not babbling.
But as we can see in the rest of the book of Acts, this was not the norm for every sinner who got saved. The thousands of Jews who were saved on the day of Pentecost, and shortly thereafter, did NOT speak in tongues after they received the Holy Spirit. Neither did the Ethiopian eunuch nor the Philippian keeper of the prison, nor many others recorded in Acts.
So anyone who teaches that the evidence of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is that the person MUST speak in tongues is not really teaching the truth.
"So anyone who teaches that the evidence of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is that the person MUST speak in tongues is not really teaching the truth."
I agree 100%. I only quoted those verses to show that there was indeed another baptism.
On another note, I spoke 3 words when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I did notice other things but I must admit I was rather disappointed. A few years later I was asked to join in to baptize others in the Holy Spirit and the words simply flowed. I do not claim this as any kind of evidence, I am simply grateful and humbled by it.
I would ask you to pray and ask God to manifest Himself to you in a tangible way, be it tongues, prophecy or simply clear communication. Try it for a week. If nothing happens you've lost nothing, on the other hand....
I honestly hope you take this in the spirit it is meant, one of love and hope. God is with us always, and I find the more I seek Him the more I find Him.
I agree 100%. I only quoted those verses to show that there was indeed another baptism.
On another note, I spoke 3 words when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I did notice other things but I must admit I was rather disappointed. A few years later I was asked to join in to baptize others in the Holy Spirit and the words simply flowed. I do not claim this as any kind of evidence, I am simply grateful and humbled by it.
I would ask you to pray and ask God to manifest Himself to you in a tangible way, be it tongues, prophecy or simply clear communication. Try it for a week. If nothing happens you've lost nothing, on the other hand....
I honestly hope you take this in the spirit it is meant, one of love and hope. God is with us always, and I find the more I seek Him the more I find Him.
I [John] indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall
baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mark 1:8
5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again
of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit.
7 Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou
knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth.
So is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3: DRB
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter,
that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth
him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you,
and shall be in you.
John 14:
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father,
even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:26
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost
not many days hence.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in
Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Acts 1:
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues,
as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:4
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 3:19 [c.f. Acts 2:38]
baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mark 1:8
5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again
of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit.
7 Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou
knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth.
So is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3: DRB
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter,
that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth
him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you,
and shall be in you.
John 14:
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father,
even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:26
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost
not many days hence.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in
Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Acts 1:
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues,
as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:4
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 3:19 [c.f. Acts 2:38]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection;
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead,
and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Hebrews 6:
baptisms > water and Spirit
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead,
and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Hebrews 6:
baptisms > water and Spirit
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Holy Spirit baptism occurs the instant we trust Christ to save us from our sins. Holy Spirit baptism is the baptism of regeneration administered by Christ. It is the baptism where we being dead in sin are made alive in Christ.
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
For the cause of Christ
Roger
So very true. There is something about our unbelief that stinks so bad. I wish God would by-pass my unbelief and force me to see what I need. But He doesn't work that way. The Holy Spirit never forces us to believe Him. He instructs us to read the Word and submit to the truth in love.
It took years of living a religious Christian life where I was taught to live by a set of rules., and being proved and approved by other Christians before I learned other wise.
It often takes a major shock to our lives to cause us to re think "big time" what went wrong in our lives and why. For instance., we judge others who are homeless or don't have jobs based on our own experiences. We judge others solely based on what we know. And most often what we know about life is from the outside and not the inside of a person.
Only Jesus sees the heart of people. Only He knows what causes a person to become an alcoholic (my dad was an alcoholic till he died of liver failure) or a divorcee., or a boaster or a prideful individual. Only He knows why a Christian walks those roads and has not submitted to the truth in love yet.
It is actually NOT possible to see the truth if we insist on seeing life from our old way of living and thinking. Nor is it easy or normal for us in our old way of thinking (flesh) to step out of what we think we know to be true (in our flesh) ... and step into the faith realm of Jesus and His way of thinking.
Before I went through a horrible divorce., no one could have ever convinced me that "I" would become one of "those kind of Christians" They were sinful and disobedient., unlovely and ugly sinners who probably were not really saved. And if they were saved., God was verrrry displeased and disgusted with them. I was taught that God gave them up to a reprobate mind., He even just left them to their own devices... so satan could get at them to teach them a lesson.
Oh how horrible that kind of thinking is. It's not Jesus thinking. It's man made self righteous religious thinking lacking love and grace. Jesus restores and receives. Sad to say for some of us we didn't know that kind of love and grace. Many believers live by our wits and not by Jesus grace and truth., some are immovable in unbelief and love-less-ness of others.., cannot see life changing spiritual things because of walking in a self righteousness of works and not from the new and living way of faith in Christ.
That is why 1 Cor.13:1-13 goes into great detail about the love of God. The "love" of man is not the same. There is no joy or satisfaction in seeing another brother fall into sin and suffer from the consequences of that sin and confusion. We who have come to understand God's love in Christ know that God seeks to restore that one.
Those who don't understand God's love will find great motivation in seeing "justice" prevail. I have learned that Jesus paid for the full justice of God and no brother or sister is called to pay for what Jesus already died for. It is the enemy of our souls who seeks to devour and confuse people. It is he who seeks to see "wrath" upon fellow brothers and sisters.., and against unsaved people too.
But God has given US the ministry of reconciliation not condemnation. 2 Cor.5:18-21
18. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.,
19. namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20. therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
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Baptised via Holy Spirit vs Spiritual Gifts
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John the baptist made clear that Christ would baptise with the Holy Spirit)
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptise with/in the Holy Spirit. Salvation happens at the moment Christ baptizes us with the indewlling Holy Spirit)
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a SPIRITUAL circumcison/covenant done without hands)
There are different spiritual gifts given to different people beyond salvation
1 Corinthians 12:
1 """"Now concerning spiritual gifts""", brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
(NOTE: Spiritual gifts beyond salvation)
4 """Now there are diversities of gifts""", """but the same Spirit""".
(NOTE: Different gifts, all given by Gods Holy Spirit)
5 And there are differences of administrations (forms of stewardship), but the same Lord.
(NOTE: Eph 4:11-12 prophets, evangelist, pastors For the perfecting of the saints & works in ministry)
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
(NOTE: Spiritual gifts are for the profit of the Church)
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
(NOTE: Two different gifts mentioned here)
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
(NOTE: Two more different gifts mentioned here)
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
(NOTE: Five more mentioned here. Note: The gifts of: divers kinds of tongues & the interpretation of tongues)
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
(NOTE: All these different gifts are by God the Holy Spirit)
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(NOTE: Our bodies have many parts. Likewise the Spirit gives many gifts)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Here states only one Baptism into one body. This happens to every believer at conversion. Then we see 9 additional gifts of the spirit mentioned in vs 8-10. A few more in Eph 4:11-12)
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
(NOTE: Here we see Apostles, helps & governments added to those mentioned earlier)
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
(NOTE: After salvation: Different people are given different spiritual gifts as the Spirit leads)
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
(NOTE: Everyone doesn't get the same gifts)
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(NOTE: Paul gives an order of importance in vs 28 & tells us to desire & pray for the best ones.)
Here are additional sciptures on the subject:
1 Cor 14:
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
(NOTE: Desire to have & display all spiritual gifts. Seek a loving spirit 1st & prophesy 2nd)
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only edifies the one praying)
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
(NOTE: Prophesy edifies the whole body that hears it)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only edifies the one praying. Prophesy is given to and edifies the whole Church)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
(NOTE: Pauls is prayerful all will receive the gift of tongues. But, teaches prophesy is better because is edifies all)
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
(NOTE: Speaking in an unknown tongue only helps/edifies the speaker)
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
(NOTE: Seek the gifts of love & prophesy 1st. These lift up many)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
(NOTE: Only use the gift of tongues in assembly. When someone with the gift of interpretation is present)
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only benefits others when there is an interpretation. Tongues plus interpretation equals prophesy)
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(NOTE: Without an interpreter present pray & sing so that all listening can understand)
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
(NOTE: In assembly your gift of tongues doesn't help anyone else. Save it for your personal time with the Lord)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
(NOTE: Paul say's he spends more personal time praying in tongues to God then ALL of them)
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
(NOTE: During assembly, Paul only speaks words all can understand)
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
(NOTE: During an assembly only use words everyone can understand)
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
(NOTE: Prophesy is good during assembly because it is a word from God that edifies/lifts up everyone)
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
(NOTE: During assembly only seek to edify everyone)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
(NOTE: If someome with the gift of interpretation is present during assembly. Have 2-3 words given that will edify all)
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
(NOTE: If no interpreter is present. Save your gift of tongues for your personal time with the Lord)
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
(NOTE: During assembly allow 2-3 prophecies be given to edify all present. Usually in this setting someone in leadership has the gift of discernment)
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
(NOTE: If you have a word. And somone before you gives the same word. Leave it at that)
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
(NOTE: Take turns one by one)
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(NOTE: Gifts are given to the church for the edification of everyone. And are to be done orderly)
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
(NOTE: Words & prophesys are to be given and done in an orderly fashion)
Finally:
The out pouring of the Holy Spirit on the Temple Mt is another subject.
Peter explains in Acts 2:14 it is a prophecy spoken by Joel 2:28 being fulfilled.
At the Tower of Babel. God confounded the rebellers tongues thereby seperating and dividing them.
We see the flipside of the curse on the Temple Mt. Everyone present was was able to hear understand and unite.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John the baptist made clear that Christ would baptise with the Holy Spirit)
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptise with/in the Holy Spirit. Salvation happens at the moment Christ baptizes us with the indewlling Holy Spirit)
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a SPIRITUAL circumcison/covenant done without hands)
There are different spiritual gifts given to different people beyond salvation
1 Corinthians 12:
1 """"Now concerning spiritual gifts""", brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
(NOTE: Spiritual gifts beyond salvation)
4 """Now there are diversities of gifts""", """but the same Spirit""".
(NOTE: Different gifts, all given by Gods Holy Spirit)
5 And there are differences of administrations (forms of stewardship), but the same Lord.
(NOTE: Eph 4:11-12 prophets, evangelist, pastors For the perfecting of the saints & works in ministry)
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
(NOTE: Spiritual gifts are for the profit of the Church)
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
(NOTE: Two different gifts mentioned here)
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
(NOTE: Two more different gifts mentioned here)
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
(NOTE: Five more mentioned here. Note: The gifts of: divers kinds of tongues & the interpretation of tongues)
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
(NOTE: All these different gifts are by God the Holy Spirit)
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(NOTE: Our bodies have many parts. Likewise the Spirit gives many gifts)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Here states only one Baptism into one body. This happens to every believer at conversion. Then we see 9 additional gifts of the spirit mentioned in vs 8-10. A few more in Eph 4:11-12)
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
(NOTE: Here we see Apostles, helps & governments added to those mentioned earlier)
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
(NOTE: After salvation: Different people are given different spiritual gifts as the Spirit leads)
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
(NOTE: Everyone doesn't get the same gifts)
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(NOTE: Paul gives an order of importance in vs 28 & tells us to desire & pray for the best ones.)
Here are additional sciptures on the subject:
1 Cor 14:
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
(NOTE: Desire to have & display all spiritual gifts. Seek a loving spirit 1st & prophesy 2nd)
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only edifies the one praying)
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
(NOTE: Prophesy edifies the whole body that hears it)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only edifies the one praying. Prophesy is given to and edifies the whole Church)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
(NOTE: Pauls is prayerful all will receive the gift of tongues. But, teaches prophesy is better because is edifies all)
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
(NOTE: Speaking in an unknown tongue only helps/edifies the speaker)
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
(NOTE: Seek the gifts of love & prophesy 1st. These lift up many)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
(NOTE: Only use the gift of tongues in assembly. When someone with the gift of interpretation is present)
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
(NOTE: The gift of tongues only benefits others when there is an interpretation. Tongues plus interpretation equals prophesy)
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(NOTE: Without an interpreter present pray & sing so that all listening can understand)
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
(NOTE: In assembly your gift of tongues doesn't help anyone else. Save it for your personal time with the Lord)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
(NOTE: Paul say's he spends more personal time praying in tongues to God then ALL of them)
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
(NOTE: During assembly, Paul only speaks words all can understand)
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
(NOTE: During an assembly only use words everyone can understand)
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
(NOTE: Prophesy is good during assembly because it is a word from God that edifies/lifts up everyone)
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
(NOTE: During assembly only seek to edify everyone)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
(NOTE: If someome with the gift of interpretation is present during assembly. Have 2-3 words given that will edify all)
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
(NOTE: If no interpreter is present. Save your gift of tongues for your personal time with the Lord)
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
(NOTE: During assembly allow 2-3 prophecies be given to edify all present. Usually in this setting someone in leadership has the gift of discernment)
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
(NOTE: If you have a word. And somone before you gives the same word. Leave it at that)
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
(NOTE: Take turns one by one)
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(NOTE: Gifts are given to the church for the edification of everyone. And are to be done orderly)
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
(NOTE: Words & prophesys are to be given and done in an orderly fashion)
Finally:
The out pouring of the Holy Spirit on the Temple Mt is another subject.
Peter explains in Acts 2:14 it is a prophecy spoken by Joel 2:28 being fulfilled.
At the Tower of Babel. God confounded the rebellers tongues thereby seperating and dividing them.
We see the flipside of the curse on the Temple Mt. Everyone present was was able to hear understand and unite.
Boy did I fall foul of that one.
I was also told because I did not speak in tongues is was also evidence I wasn't saved.
Carried that for a long long time.
In fact I had someone suggest a way of forcing it.
Say slowly "She will come on a Honda" then speed it up and keep doing so.
Eventually the mind will get used to speaking what sounds like gibberish therefore opening your mind to allow the HS to give you tongues.
Then I was asked would like to try it now.
I said no thanks.
I only went forward for prayer because I was struggling with my walk with God.
Went away worse off than when I went forward.
I must admit I find this whole area confusing.
My understanding is that when we come to faith we are baptised in the Holy Spirit. We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
So initially I would say that we have the Holy Spirit in us to conform us to the image of Jesus. Which for me is love and fruit.
Galatians 5:22-26
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Then I see that the Holy Spirit works in the following way.
1 Corinthians 12:7-11
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
These are gifts that are given to believers for the following purpose
1 Corinthians 12:4-7
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
To profit the church.
But having said that I do not negate that such gifts are given to us to reveal Jesus to non believers.
I constantly pray that today we do all the things that Jesus did when here on earth.
Miracles, healings and so on.
So for me my focus is on Galatians and not the gifts. At times I have manifest gifts but only to those in the body.
When doing so I have just prayed "God what is it you want to do here?
Which to me relates back to Galatians.
But in a sense to me it's natural and not supernatural to a believer. It's just following the promoting of the Holy Spirit.
But then I see and hear that there is some hyper emotional thing going on.
That's what I do not get. A supernatural, emotional feeling that should accompany the Holy Spirit doing something in us and through us. It's the emotional thing I do not get.
Sorry for the long post.
And I'm truly happy for anyone to help me here with my confusion.
Bill
My understanding is that when we come to faith we are baptised in the Holy Spirit. We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
So initially I would say that we have the Holy Spirit in us to conform us to the image of Jesus. Which for me is love and fruit.
Galatians 5:22-26
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Then I see that the Holy Spirit works in the following way.
1 Corinthians 12:7-11
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
These are gifts that are given to believers for the following purpose
1 Corinthians 12:4-7
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
To profit the church.
But having said that I do not negate that such gifts are given to us to reveal Jesus to non believers.
I constantly pray that today we do all the things that Jesus did when here on earth.
Miracles, healings and so on.
So for me my focus is on Galatians and not the gifts. At times I have manifest gifts but only to those in the body.
When doing so I have just prayed "God what is it you want to do here?
Which to me relates back to Galatians.
But in a sense to me it's natural and not supernatural to a believer. It's just following the promoting of the Holy Spirit.
But then I see and hear that there is some hyper emotional thing going on.
That's what I do not get. A supernatural, emotional feeling that should accompany the Holy Spirit doing something in us and through us. It's the emotional thing I do not get.
Sorry for the long post.
And I'm truly happy for anyone to help me here with my confusion.
Bill
When I look at it biblically.. the first thing I spot is Jesus saying He will baptise the disciples with the Holy Spirit.
What I notice about this is..
They are already converted.. already eternally saved
They are a group.. rather than individuals alone
So where do you find in the bible it bring for eternal salvation and for individuals alone?
Brutal. I've seen the same thing happen to others. The worst apart ? ... some never recover
Today's "tongues" doesn't remotely resemble what happened at pentecost. There's a good reason for that. It isn't miraculous biblical tongues as occurred during the apostolic era. And quite frankly, I don't concern myself with how many line up to tell me otherwise.