Can you be wrong about everything except Jesus is Lord and be saved?

thefightinglamb · Jul 7, 2010

I know that after speaking about love in Corinthians, Paul says that knowledge will pass away...because we all only know in part...

But I got to wonder about so much that people profess to know, and are wrong.

For example, to try to understand mormons and to see someone I wanted to help out of it, I once attended a mormon service. Now, I must confess that I think they are wrong about 75% of the time at least....but they do profess that "Jesus is Lord" and even claim to be "the church of Jesus Christ of the latter day Saints"--which if you take that literally all churchs should believe themselves churches of Jesus Christ and have saints of this age in them...

I really do not believe that mormons can be Christians just because their doctrines are so extremely strange...but that brings up an interesting point? If you know that Jesus is Lord, but you also believe/don't believe x than can you be a Christian?

I do not want too much argument, just personal convictions on what beliefs either a Christian cannot hold or which ones they must in order to be Christian.

For example, I do not speak in tongues yet as the pentecostals believe in, and I think perhaps? that the church I go to believes that speaking in tongues is the only way to know that someone is born of the Spirit and thus Christian.

Also, after heavy theological studies, I have come to take the 7 days of creation to not mean 7 24 hour days, I know I may be wrong about this and I am still trying to understand what I believe as I know God is Almighty and He could have made it precisely 7 24 hour days, but right now I do not see it that way....Is that enough to qualify me as not truly Christian by some of you?

I have been to churches that believe anywhere from the Bible is the Word of God to believing the Bible is just a text to help us live more moral lives, and both confessing Jesus as Lord...is not believing that God spoke every word in the Bible enough to qualify someone as not Christian? Is believing Jesus is your Savior by believing that 'he was the most moral man that ever lived' and not confessing that He is the Son of God enough to not be Christian?

For me, most of this stuff is a red flag that someone doesn't TRULY believe in God and Jesus as his Son...but as I said I do not take the 7 days exactly literally right now--because of Einstein too perhaps saying that "time is relative"--so what is a day to God?

I do not want your church's dogma on what they believe in, but personally what you feel are the essentials in order to be Christian...

I personally DO NOT believe you can be wrong about EVERYTHING besides Jesus is LORD and be saved. To confess Jesus is Lord with your heart means more to me--it means you live that truth versus just saying or knowing the syllables.

I should post my list now. But I am going to pray and think about it.

The Lord be with all of you.
Tony

Shwagga · Jul 7, 2010

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

forerunner · Jul 7, 2010

I think your question depends on what Jesus meant when He said....

Matthew 10:33 whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
or
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

So two question arise what must we deny to deny Him, and who is He? The pharrisees asked them the same question and Jesus answers them....

John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

So who does Jesus say He is from the beginning. Well lets see what the WORD say in the beginning.

Genesis 1:1 In the Beginning God

Jesus has told us who He is from the beginning can we deny it without denying Him. You tell me?

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

giantone · Jul 7, 2010

Galatians 1:8 *But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

No, I would say if Satan is in charge of the hen house the eggs are likely going to be bad eggs.

resurrection33 · Jul 7, 2010

I like to make a distinction between being saved and going to heaven. I believe they are two different things. We make messes out of our lives and the Lord saves us. When we repent, we go to heaven. Heaven, I think, is a state of mind, not a place:

loveschild · Jul 7, 2010

All I can think is how the word says many will say Lord, Lord and wonder why God won't have anything to do with them.

One just said heaven is a state of mind. Might as well say the whole bible is a state of mind and that would mean its all just some make believe story. No better than Jack and the bean stalk.

Heaven is not a state of mind. Its a place. The bible talks of God talking down to earth from heaven to people on earth. That was not a state of mind. The bible talks of John being taken to heaven. Heaven is talked of in the bible many places as a actual place. Its a actual place some of us will go to one day. If you don't believe its real I would think you wouldn't get to go there.

The mormans made up a different book. Who would be behind making a book to change the bible(satan).

The bible talks of one day as one day lots of times. Why would one day be different because he was making stars an all. One day is one day. God is God if he did so and so in one day thats because he has the power to do that in one day.

The bible is there to learn from. Anyone on earth who has been taught wrong you better believe God has sent someone to tell they have learned wrong. At that point then it is up to each person to think and act on what they have been told. The bible is there. If they chose to not learn then as the bible says they die for lack knowledge.

charisenexcelcis · Jul 7, 2010

I think that having Jesus as Lord includes a cluster of beliefs--I must believe in a God who is love and light and holy. I must believe that Jesus is God, that he was able to put aside certain attributes and become a man. I must believe that somehow my sin was placed upon Him and that He suffered the punishment for my sin. I must believe that he died on the cross and rose again on the third day. I must place my trust in Him and His work. I must believe that I can have a living relationship with God through Christ. I must believe that this is part of a plan that stretches from creation to consumation.

ed · Jul 8, 2010

thefightinglamb said:

Hi fightinglamb,
Terrific post and very honest. Firstly I want to address the issue of speaking in tongues. I also do not speak in tongues but I can assure you 100% that Jesus Christ lives in me. If you want me to witness to you on these issues I will in private mail.
Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Spirit. It comes from being baptised in the Spirit. Those people who speak in tongues have already being given the gifts that they will receive. They may also have other gifts as well. Scripture plainly says that not all will have the same gifts but that the gift of speaking in tongues is given to those who need such a gift to believe. Apparently you don't need such a gift to beiieve if you have been baptisd in the Spirit. You have already being sealed through baptism in Jesus Christ. God may want to test you for a time also and therefore maybe you have greater gifts coming at a latter date. Or you may already have gifts and you are unaware of them.
In summary, I beg you , do not think less of yourself just because you do not speak in tongues.
I was approached by the Mormans and so I went and listened to them. I know very little about them but they follow a spirit called Moroni or some such Spirit. I dont remember the details. But I did say to the leader of the two people who were talking to me in an interview room, if he would call in someone else to tell me about him, or is it possible for him to speak for himself. He told me he could speak for himself. So I told him that as Jesus Christ is alive He does not need a moroni or whoever to speak for him. Therefore the spirit who gave them the truth is not from Jesus who can speak for himself. Also there was a a lot of exaggeration which is typical of Satan. God uses 2 or 3 witnesses Satan uses a dozen or more. Jesus verified scripture so please just follow that and Jesus himself will teach you. Just seek him and act in a loving manner to all you meet. Remember God has given the work of saving you to Himself. And He can. All you have to do is agree and keep on agreeing irrespective of how difficult it is.Do not deny Jesus's name. And the time will come when you will have to make that choice.
love
edwin.

quidni · Jul 8, 2010

You're asking for opinion, so I'll offer mine - understand, this is IMO - I make no claim to scholarship or infallibility.

Re: your question - If it isn't enough, then the thief on the cross was out of luck.

If you know/accept Him as Lord, then you believe He is who He says, even if you don't understand it all. If you don't accept Him as Lord, then you may know ABOUT Him but you don't know Him. I know about a lot of people that I've never met and don't know personally.

Jesus didn't tell us we had to understand everything or get every point of dogma correct. He just said "I am the way..." You don't have to understand everything about how a bridge was constructed to be able to cross it safely. You see the bridge, you understand that it's the way to the other side, and you cross.

That being said, "He has set eternity in the hearts of men." We have a hunger to learn and understand, to fill that gap in ourselves that only He can fill. The biggest problem with various details in theology, as I see it, is that "God made man in His image, and man has been trying to return the favor ever since." (not original with me but I don't remember who said it.) I like the way the Independent Christian churches put it (I consider myself a post-Reformation Campbellite) - "Where the Bible speaks, we speak; where the Bible is silent, we are silent." And reading the letters of Paul, he understood that different Christians will have different levels of understanding, different strengths and weaknesses, as well as different talents... that didn't make any of them less-Christian or not-Christian. It was just a caution for those who believed that they "understood more" to be careful that they didn't confuse those who understood less, and thereby discourage them or worse, cause them to fall away completely.

Again, IMO. "To know nothing but Christ while among you...." (paraphrased)
/ramble
73

charisenexcelcis · Jul 8, 2010

quidni said:

You're asking for opinion, so I'll offer mine - understand, this is IMO - I make no claim to scholarship or infallibility.

Re: your question - If it isn't enough, then the thief on the cross was out of luck.

If you know/accept Him as Lord, then you believe He is who He says, even if you don't understand it all. If you don't accept Him as Lord, then you may know ABOUT Him but you don't know Him. I know about a lot of people that I've never met and don't know personally.

Jesus didn't tell us we had to understand everything or get every point of dogma correct. He just said "I am the way..." You don't have to understand everything about how a bridge was constructed to be able to cross it safely. You see the bridge, you understand that it's the way to the other side, and you cross.

That being said, "He has set eternity in the hearts of men." We have a hunger to learn and understand, to fill that gap in ourselves that only He can fill. The biggest problem with various details in theology, as I see it, is that "God made man in His image, and man has been trying to return the favor ever since." (not original with me but I don't remember who said it.) I like the way the Independent Christian churches put it (I consider myself a post-Reformation Campbellite) - "Where the Bible speaks, we speak; where the Bible is silent, we are silent." And reading the letters of Paul, he understood that different Christians will have different levels of understanding, different strengths and weaknesses, as well as different talents... that didn't make any of them less-Christian or not-Christian. It was just a caution for those who believed that they "understood more" to be careful that they didn't confuse those who understood less, and thereby discourage them or worse, cause them to fall away completely.

Again, IMO. "To know nothing but Christ while among you...." (paraphrased)
/ramble
73

I think that is a good point. Perhaps I am answering the wrong question. Perhaps I am answering: If you are saved what will you (eventually) believe about Jesus.

greatkraw · Jul 8, 2010

another lord and another gospel

superdave5221 · Jul 8, 2010

Romans 10: 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed ? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard ? And how will they hear without a preacher ? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent ? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS !" 16 However, they did not all heed the good news ; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT ?" 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Paul makes it clear that in order to have saving faith, we must know something of God's redemptive plan, including who Jesus Christ is and why He died for us. That is why it is so important to have a written Gospel so that people can have a knowledge of who we are in relation to God and His Son Jesus Christ. We must know that we are in need of a Savior because of sin, and have faith and trust in Jesus to be able and willing to propitiate our sins before the Father. We MUST have a relationship with Jesus, and KNOW who He is.

1 Peter 2: 2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, 3 if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

VW · Jul 8, 2010

All it takes is trust in the Lord. Simple trust, just like the thief on the cross. That trust is in the person of Jesus Christ. Nothing else.

thefightinglamb · Jul 8, 2010

I have thought of other ways of rewording this question...

Perhaps the question is best approached by having people answer what they believe it takes to know and confess that Jesus is Lord.

For me, the answer to this question has many essentials. [this is NOT exaustive]

1-You have to know that there is a Creator.
2-You have to know the 'nature' of who this Creator is.
3-You have to believe he reveals himself through the Word of the Bible.
4-You have to believe that you are a sinner (or why would you need a Redeemer?)
5-You have got to believe and understand that God is Holy.
6-You have got to believe in the fall of man in Genesis.
7-You have got to believe that God is both loving and almighty.
8-You have got to know/see the difference between wickedness and holiness.
9-You have to believe that the person Jesus was God.
10-You have to believe that Jesus testified to the truth and to how we should live if we are to be his followers.
11-You have to believe that He suffered, died, was buried, and rose again--and that He also will come again at the end of the age.
12-You have to believe that to follow the way of this world is folly.
13-You have to be willing to sacrifice yourself and your will for the Lord and his will for you.
14-You have to believe that Satan really exists and he and his powers seek to blind you in darkness.
15-You have to believe that God hears your prayers.

I have no idea what it means to confess Jesus is LORD if you do not understand or accept these premises...I will think of what else I believe must be understood/acknowledged in order to truly confess that Jesus is Lord...and I will also quickly right a list of stuff I think you cannot believe and be saved, in my next post.

God bless
Tony

thefightinglamb · Jul 8, 2010

A lot of the beliefs you cannot hold and be Christian I would claim are anything that contradicts the first list...

But let us go further and see what else (I believe) may not be believed in and be a true Christian.
You cannot believe...
1-that there are many 'ways' to God--aka you have to believe that Jesus is the only way to the true God.
2-that man merely evolved from animals.
3-that man by himself can be good enough to save himself apart from Jesus/God.
4-that there are no consequences to sin.
5-that God is merely in the background and has no active part in forming our lives.
6-that the Bible and God does not require you to love your brothers/sisters in Christ and EVEN your enemies.
7-that hiding your sins achieves anything good.
8-in not fighting against lust, passions, hate, et cetera.
9-that Jesus does not require you to deeply CARE for everyone.
10-that we will not be held accountable for the words that we speak (thus cursing (cussing) and any other form of malice in words can do hurt mure than stones--contrary to the cliche)
11-that following Jesus/God is impossible.
12-that God does not speak to us and lead us in various ways to follow him.

This is a quick list after some thought...I know perhaps some might disagree with some like 10 for example. But as I believe by the WORD we are saved, every word we say or don't say wither has or could of had immense power--its the difference between saying what God has told you/wants you to say and the foolishness/nonsense that is said so often. For example, if someone claims to be Christian and cusses 'like a sailor' (as the expression goes) than I either one instantly understand that Jesus must not be their LORD or two I have sometimes thought perhaps they are an EXTREMELY LOST Christian...but that just brings up the question, can a Christian be lost? I have always thought that lost was the opposite of saved.

This is also NOT exhaustive. I am still thinking. Perhaps young Christians may not explicitly know these, but implicitly these have to be true for Christians, I believe.

So, in a sense, I was asking you all for lists of RED FLAGS that you get after someone says they are a Christian and confess Jesus as their LORD yet also believe that sends you the RED alert that perhaps they are NOT what they claim to be.

Personally, the quickest litmus test that tells me if someone is with God or not is how they treat their enemies. Every Christian knows that he must confess and at least act like he loves other Christians and people in general. But it is when you see their reactions and behaviors towards their enemies that you truly understand what is guiding their heart.

I will say this about the mormon girl I once knew named Amanda. The tricky thing with her was I truly felt the Spirit/God tell me she was Christian. When I fould out she 'thought' she was mormon, I was completely flabbergasted. I say this because I realize that some may say the only fool proof way of knowing that Jesus is their Lord is what God tells you--which is true. But it has also led me to start two threads on if someone can be wrong about what they believe in and truly be a Christian even if they think themselves a mormon.

Sorry this is so long.

God bless
tony

distinctiveministry · Jul 8, 2010

Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength. Love your neighbors as yourself. Die to yourself (the flesh) and live for Christ. Do this and you will be saved. We are not saved because of our doctrine, but because in Christ we have died and have been born again as sons and daughters of the one True God.

thefightinglamb · Jul 8, 2010

These might make a few people upset but I also hold these facts to be self-evident in true Christians.

You cannot believe--
13--that illigal drugs are okay, or permissible in any way. If you do them I quickly assume you are not Christian.
14-that unmarital sex is okay or permissible in any way.
15-that homosexuality is acceptable in any way. If you believe that it is okay, I quickly assume that you do not understand Christianity.
16-that alcoholics (meaning those who continue to drink heavily) will be in heaven.

Just a few more on my list. I want lists from you all. This is my personal list and is not meant to ATTACK anyone. Just red flags that tell me that the person is not worshipping the same Lord as I am.

God bless
tony

VW · Jul 8, 2010

I wonder about why we would focus on the things we must not believe, rather than the things we do believe in Him.

charisenexcelcis · Jul 8, 2010

VW said:

For our walk, for our internal life we should not. For the sake of the weak, the vulnerable, we must.

BananaPie · Jul 8, 2010

thefightinglamb said:

Goodness, Tony, for being a Swede, you have a Christian insight.
I'll recycle your #15 for my own learning, and I'll pitch-in one for you.
17- You cannot believe that everybody confessing to be Christian will be in Heaven (judgement begins with the household of God).

Can you be wrong about everything except Jesus is Lord and be saved?

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