Not By Works

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notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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Gonna keep on my toes today to try and obtain the coveted 50,000th post!

I hear tell it's more valuable than winning the "last person to post" award.
i hope you get it! :)

bonus points! lol
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Every human has committed atleast one sin worthy of death.

The blood of Yahshua/Jesus grants mercy for those that are in Messiah.

This mercy does not in any way shape or form make obeience obselete.

here may be where the disconnect comes. All sin carries with it the death penalty, Every sin known to God is worthy of death.

This should be our starting point.

Sand no one here is saying disobedience is obsolete,. This ad hominiem, strawman,or whatever people want to call it is for true birds. And why people stop responding to such nonsense
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
anyone in Messiah will do as He says.

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”



I understand what the Messiah says, anyone who says different is not in truth, as Yahshua/Jesus is the "one we must hear and obey"

John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”


John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 -
שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (
often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1)
to hear, listen to, obey



John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."


2 John/Yahanan 1:9, "Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have Yah. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."




anyone in Messiah will do as He says.

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

How well will they do it, and how much obedience is required?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
oh, c'mon. dead folk do stuff all the time.

:rolleyes: :p
Could you chose to not commit adultry when you were spiritually dead?

Could you chose to do admit you wher wrong when you were dead?

Noah chose to build an ark, abraham chose to leave his country, while Jonah chose to say no to God, God put a road block so he still had to chose to say yes.

please lets do not get into another calvanist debate!!
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
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lolzzzz...

I heard they're really really good at staying dead too. :D

All I know is God granted me faith, and every believer has obtained it in the same exact manner. Why people fight against this truth is beyond me. There is so much in Scripture that proves this and that salvation is not clinched by choice.

Anyhow I am out of here before this discussion swallows up my time and day with incessant denials of truth by way of tradition...
I think it was best that God predetermined that you would exit at the point you did, otherwise I would have chosen to bravely show the truth to you: the clear Biblical truth that we are created in the image of God and not as mere robots predetermined to morosely follow Him or to go to hell.

I suppose it was all in His plan and I have no choice in the matter anyway . . . I wonder what it feels like to be a robot! LOL!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Faith is obtained, it's not inherent.
no one said it was.

You do not just trust someone out of the blue, they have to earn your trust. Thats why no one comes to God the first time they hear about him, They must learn about him and realise how trustworthy he is.


 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I know,but it's not good to be on pins and needles "assuming" that people with similar doctrines are actually "them" granted it might be true but it may "scare off" new people who have just begun in their walk with Jesus or in a doctrine.

Amen, this I agree
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
I guess I will watch to see who is here, and wait till PennEd leaves so I can get the coveted 50000 post.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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maybe you could stay and help sham see its not by works
Remember, it is the work of God that a man believes; John 6:29. This work is up to God, not man; Matthew 11:25-30, and after his revealing himself to whom he wills, he invites them to come to him, and they do, every one. All we can do, as obedient unworthy servants, is preach the Word, his elect will believe; 2 Timothy 2:8-10.

I'm out of here for a while...try to study the Word brother, and pray, and meditate more than you stay on here contending with it against error. I'm guilty of this myself, there is so much to know and learn and share with family and church and my reading is behind!

Remember it is not our fault a person doesn't believe the truth on any level, even professing believers. That is God's place not ours, just be faithful and spend time with him.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,584
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"sham", oh very nice.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 6:46, “But why do you call Me ‘Master, Master,’ and do not do what I say?”[/FONT]
Hmm... If your hand causes you to sin, if your eye causes you to sin, if your tongue causes you to sin, etc... You're supposed to cut them off. Have YOU followed those commands of Jesus? Why not!? Don't you love Him?
And remember, merely THINKING about lusting, or anger at your brother, or you name it IS SIN.

No. Unless YOUR righteousness EXCEEDS that of the Pharisees, who sincerely tried their darndest to follow the Law, you will by no means enter the Kingdom of Heaven.


THAT was the point of Matthew 5. Jesus lays out the type of heart that can receive Him with the beautitudes, then juxtaposed it with the heart that CAN'T accept Him because it is not humble, and believes THEIR works and obedience to the Law will save them.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
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Ahhhhhh! I didn't know I have to wait thirty seconds between posts! That is not fair!
It's a good thing you are here. I can see that this thread was not long enough and was in dire need of another argument to keep it going.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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I think it was best that God predetermined that you would exit at the point you did, otherwise I would have chosen to bravely show the truth to you: the clear Biblical truth that we are created in the image of God and not as mere robots predetermined to morosely follow Him or to go to hell.
Straw man.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
1,272
113
Could you chose to not commit adultry when you were spiritually dead?

Could you chose to do admit you wher wrong when you were dead?

Noah chose to build an ark, abraham chose to leave his country, while Jonah chose to say no to God, God put a road block so he still had to chose to say yes.

please lets do not get into another calvanist debate!!
okay. didn't intend to do that; just having a laugh with a brother. :)
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Hmm... If your hand causes you to sin, if your eye causes you to sin, if your tongue causes you to sin, etc... You're supposed to cut them off. Have YOU followed those commands of Jesus? Why not!? Don't you love Him?
And remember, merely THINKING about lusting, or anger at your brother, or you name it IS SIN.

No. Unless YOUR righteousness EXCEEDS that of the Pharisees, who sincerely tried their darndest to follow the Law, you will by no means enter the Kingdom of Heaven.


THAT was the point of Matthew 5. Jesus lays out the type of heart that can receive Him with the beautitudes, then juxtaposed it with the heart that CAN'T accept Him because it is not humble, and believes THEIR works and obedience to the Law will save them.
if he did actually do that...

and still managed to post here

i would be very impressed honestly