Some words by Spurgeon;
- Thread starter joaniemarie
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thank you Stillness for those very kind words. And for your hands up! If we were in church., I'd join in with hands raised to our Lord in worship.
Your testimony as well is greatly appreciated and I'm sure spoke to and helped more people than you know who come to these forums looking for help and encouragement. We have no idea the things that each individual who comes here has gone through. God bless you Stillness as you keep walking the walk and looking forward and not back.I enjoy the way the Amplified "amplifies" certain verses giving amplified meaning to the words. Words are awesome tools that can be used for such good when written and spoken. Here is Phillipians 3:10-15 Be blessed and encouraged.
[SUP]10 [/SUP][For my determined purpose is] that I may know Him [that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly], and that I may in that same way come to know the power outflowing from His resurrection [[SUP][a][/SUP]which it exerts over believers], and that I may so share His sufferings as to be continually transformed [in spirit into His likeness even] to His death, [in the hope]
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]That if possible I may attain to the [[SUP][b][/SUP]spiritual and moral] resurrection [that lifts me] out from among the dead [even while in the body].
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Not that I have now attained [this ideal], or have already been made perfect, but I press on to lay hold of (grasp) and make my own, that for which Christ Jesus (the Messiah) has laid hold of me and made me His own.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]I do not consider, brethren, that I have captured and made it my own [yet]; but one thing I do [it is my one aspiration]: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]I press on toward the goal to win the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]So let those [of us] who are spiritually mature and full-grown have this mind and hold these convictions; and if in any respect you have a different attitude of mind, God will make that clear to you also.
That is one of the most powerful, human moments in the entire Bible, the story of the lady anointing the feet of Jesus.
I think she moved the heart of the Lord, more than anyone else in the Gospels--
If we think God's power of love and mercy is not present in our weakness, and simple, real moments like this, and that women have a lessor place in the patriarchal Bible,
remember the power of that divine-human encounter carried with it a command:
"LEAVE HER ALONE!"
And I can picture Jesus pointing at Judas, commanding the devil to leave--
There's no place at the table of the Lord or in His presence for bitter condemnation--
"But this precious treasure—this light and power that now shine within us—is held in a perishable container, that is, in our weak bodies. Everyone can see that the glorious power within must be from God and is not our own."
(2 cor.4:7; TLB)
Last edited:
Move above and beyond the reach of the dog, who was not likely playing around...
yeah, the dog snapped at the squirrel at least once, when it thought it was gonna get it-- probably would have chomped it; Amazing how the squirrel seemed to know without seeing the dog, where it would be next.
Joaniemarie,
this is the quote I meant that was helpful! And after reading some more, I see that I do not agree with the post about King David being in despair--I believe he was motivated by conviction from the prophet Nathan.
And the lady described above in the Bible was not despairing ether.
tyvm!--
tc...
--Herald
Last edited:
Amen Herald., There was a message on the radio the other day about how Jesus changed the way the unclean are made clean. When Jesus was walking here on earth., a man with leprosy went up to Jesus even though it was totally against the law. Lepers were separated from everyone because the unclean effected the clean making it unclean. Leprosy is very contagious.
The man bowed down to Jesus saying "Lord, if You are willing, you can make me clean. And Jesus stretched out His hand (touching) him saying "I am willing; be cleansed: and immediately his leprosy was cleansed. Matt.8:1-3
Under the law people were not allowed to touch the unclean. Jesus is God and because of that and because He came to bring in this new and living way., Clean touched the unclean and made it CLEAN. Unlike before. Under the law., sin is contagious and infects the clean. Under grace., Grace is contagious and effects the unclean making it clean once and for all. Because of this new and living way that Jesus brought., (grace and truth) we are righteous in Him.
We receive His righteousness as a gift and we who were unclean are now clean and washed as white as snow. That is the new and living way we are to live out our lives as believers. We are righteous in His sight., and as born again people we are to be learning to see as He sees for the rest of our lives. We will be learning how to walk out this new and living way via faith. Heb.11:1
And who doesn't like and approve of Charles H. Spurgeon???
Spurgeon is right on about repentance - at least I think so
The Greek word menoieo usually used for repentance means literally "to think differently"
Repentance is not equivalent to tears, sorrow, etc, nor is it parallel to living a changed life.
Now all of the above (previous sentence) are likely to happen with true repentance - that is - when we changed our mind about sin, then we will likely have tears, sorrow, and live a different lifestyle.
Those dog videos get me every time! I wondered why that squirrel didn't just go up the tree? I don't know the behavior of squirrels but I'm very aware of dog behavior since dogs have been part of our family since day 1. So that dog would and could do that all day if the owner let him. Dogs just LOVE to be doing that stuff. Our dog would chase a ball all day until he dropped of exhaustion. And then he would dream of chasing the ball. LOL
Spurgeon is right on about repentance - at least I think so
The Greek word menoieo usually used for repentance means literally "to think differently"
Repentance is not equivalent to tears, sorrow, etc, nor is it parallel to living a changed life.
Now all of the above (previous sentence) are likely to happen with true repentance - that is - when we changed our mind about sin, then we will likely have tears, sorrow, and live a different lifestyle.
Hi Chester., While I agree with the gist of what you say because human behavior is like that., I also know each person is different and so are their circumstances and emotions. I used to put a high priority on emotions and feelings and tears.
As a woman I'm aware of hormones., and how when imbalanced.,they cause us to be wacky. While pregnant I was a mess of emotions. Then after the hormones settled to a normal balance life was great and the pregnancy was wonderful., the sun shone., the house was beautiful, the flowers grew bigger and better than ever noticed before...., the rainbows were everywhere.....
Then months after the baby was born., the hormones went wacky again and in my confusion., life was very difficult. So I learned after a lot of years of suffering needlessly., not to take the emotions seriously. Emotions come even when we don't want them to at times. And then emotions don't come when we want them to. So our emotions need to be put where they belong.,in proper perspective.
I know that Jesus is steadfast and immovable. His love for us is not susceptible to change or hormonal imbalance. His love is self motivated and self generated. He loves us graciously. We don't earn His love or merit it by our good works or our looks or our loveliness or great beauty. His love comes and is showered on us who do not deserve it at all. But yet., He loves us as if we did.
The Bible says those IN Christ are not condemned., Today we are under the "New" covenant. Romans 8:1-2 tells us about being set free from the old law covenant to walk in the new grace covenant.
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2. For the "law of the Spirit" of life in Christ Jesus" has set you free from the law of sin and death. Out with the old and on with the new. And so the person who has Jesus doesn't repent to get forgiven., we repent because we ARE forgiven. And that "repentance" is about our minds being changed towards God each day as we learn more of Him and how to walk in the Spirit.
We are now behaving from a new and renewed mind. We are set free from the old law of sin and death where we had no forgiveness., We were without Christ in the world. Paul says in Acts 26:20 We turn "to" God. We look to Jesus.
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. (Act 26:20)
This difference is a major one. We are not working "for" victory., we are working "from" victory. IMO that totally changes the perspective I had in my former Christian understanding about salvation (sozo).
Jesus has already won our sanctification for us. We're not working for our salvation with it's accompanying sanctification because we are already set apart. Nor do we work for the completion when we will be given a new body (complete redemption of the flesh-body) ... He will give us that new body. We are walking on the path He has set for us towards Christ.
1 Cor.1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness, and sanctification and redemption.
1 Thess.4:3-4 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor., not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God
2 Thess.2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning or salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
1 Pet.1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood; May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure.
Below is part of a post written about this subject so to clarify the meaning of being IN Christ and IN His righteousness.
Under the old, you could turn from sin to… more sin! For instance, if you managed to turn from some nasty habits, your religious flesh would soon get puffed up with pride. Just look at the Pharisees. I doubt anyone repented (i.e., turned from sin) as much as they did.
But in the new, there is only one direction to turn, and that is towards God. And as we turn towards Him, we inevitably turn from sin. This is why we don’t find Paul praying like this: “I keep asking God to help you reprobates turn from your stinking sin”! No, Paul prayed that we would know Him better.
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2. For the "law of the Spirit" of life in Christ Jesus" has set you free from the law of sin and death. Out with the old and on with the new. And so the person who has Jesus doesn't repent to get forgiven., we repent because we ARE forgiven. And that "repentance" is about our minds being changed towards God each day as we learn more of Him and how to walk in the Spirit.
We are now behaving from a new and renewed mind. We are set free from the old law of sin and death where we had no forgiveness., We were without Christ in the world. Paul says in Acts 26:20 We turn "to" God. We look to Jesus.
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. (Act 26:20)
This difference is a major one. We are not working "for" victory., we are working "from" victory. IMO that totally changes the perspective I had in my former Christian understanding about salvation (sozo).
Jesus has already won our sanctification for us. We're not working for our salvation with it's accompanying sanctification because we are already set apart. Nor do we work for the completion when we will be given a new body (complete redemption of the flesh-body) ... He will give us that new body. We are walking on the path He has set for us towards Christ.
1 Cor.1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness, and sanctification and redemption.
1 Thess.4:3-4 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor., not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God
2 Thess.2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning or salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
1 Pet.1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood; May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure.
Below is part of a post written about this subject so to clarify the meaning of being IN Christ and IN His righteousness.
Under the old, you could turn from sin to… more sin! For instance, if you managed to turn from some nasty habits, your religious flesh would soon get puffed up with pride. Just look at the Pharisees. I doubt anyone repented (i.e., turned from sin) as much as they did.
But in the new, there is only one direction to turn, and that is towards God. And as we turn towards Him, we inevitably turn from sin. This is why we don’t find Paul praying like this: “I keep asking God to help you reprobates turn from your stinking sin”! No, Paul prayed that we would know Him better.
Last edited:
Yeah, I can agree with that.
Maybe that's why he left the thread & didn't come back, because he knew he couldn't win.
I think we should question the motives of those who would twist Spurgeon's teachings to match their own, or post a bunch of false teachings of a infamous televangelist.
So, yeah, I agree motives are important.
For some reason, maybe trauma issues, or other, including maybe my mind being repeatedly subjected to types of worship where you are not an active participant, which at least in my experience caused an unusual way of reacting to things that seemed to create a suggestive state of mind-- if that makes sense? or both-- if you are part of a worship where you are just receiving or listening passively, i think it has unusual effects-- not sure what I'm trying to say here...
I think the word I'm looking for is "assimilation," you kind of have to be there to understand--
or kind of a trance-like state of mind-- very strange if you ask me or at least an unusual way to worship. Not trying to be judgmental here-- but some churches make you weaker to uncleaness, instead of repelling it. Not sure if this is making sense.
But, I'm glad you enjoyed the dog and squirrel!! could the squirrel just have been having fun with the dog?? That's a pretty confident squirrel-- "what to do, what to do today...oh, here comes that dog again..."
It's true., many people are like sheep and don't know how to think on their own. Look at kids in school that is where it really starts in a powerful way. As the years go by., people will still want to be accepted in a group so they will compromise themselves even as adults to run with the crowd. We each have to learn to be strong in the Lord and the power of His Resurrection. Not in the weakness of what the Bible calls "the arm of the flesh"
Being in a trance is not something I've ever experienced so I can't say I understand what you mean Herald. I do not believe the Lord ever wants us to be in a trance doing things we don't want to do. I have never been taken over by a spirit but I've heard that is what an evil spirit does. The Holy Spirit is gentle and calm and is the One who teaches us about self discipline.
Just heard a message this morning about how Jesus said people are like sheep without a shepherd. We are to tell of the Good Shepherd and how He loves them and wants to lead them into all truth.
Last edited:
Well, to be more specific, I meant liturgical kind of worship-- where the worship just "happens," around you-- there can be sustained "chants," where every minute of the worship or the Mass is sort of programmed. I didn't mean an altered state of mind, really, just sort of zoning out-- and I have seen people walk out of a Catholic Mass who seemed really spaced-out, like they were in another world. But, it's hard to say how or why that happens to some people and not others-- it occurred to me that maybe they were being influenced by a spirit of idolatry-- and they thought it was a religious experience? Then again, you never know where people are mentally or in their life. Maybe the people I saw were on drugs, who knows?
But, it's not my imagination. After attending a formal liturgy years ago, a lady mentioned the same thing wondering what was causing what she was experiencing-- along the lines of that she felt zoned out after the worship.
It's not just a formal church thing-- there are some people that I've seen in a charismatic church that seemed to just be there for an emotional high. One guy even admitted it, he said, he was an adrenaline junkie and the worship got him hyped up.
I think I'm just trying to discern different religious experiences and why some people get "worked up" in worship and why and I think it is a legitimate concern that it can go too far. One charismatic church did the dancing in the aisle thing and another one said that they didn't allow it. So, I'm not just pulling this out of a hat here. Some churches go to extremes where people are laid out on the floor "laughing in the spirit," and I'm just not sure how to discern all that. I've never spoken in tongues, but I don't think it is an altered state-- people remain conscious of what they are doing.
Many years ago our family went to these revival meetings and different pastors and evangelists from all over the upstate NY area met in a huge old barn for 2 weeks in the summers. It was funded by many of the good bible churches in the NY area. We all heard many different Bible preachers with old time gospel music and hymns that were very uplifting and it was awesome.
Some of the evangelists after they gave the salvation message they actually cried and got on their knees sweating and begged people to come to Jesus and be saved from hell. They did this for almost a half hour as many different people got up to be prayed for or to rededicate their lives to Jesus with lots of crying and lots of emotion with falling down in exhaustion from all the crying. As a young Christian it annoyed me that older leaders and men of God would use this kind of begging and emotional manipulation on the people that were in a vulnerable time in their lives. They didn't need to beg. The Holy Spirit is able to bring people to Jesus.
I learned early on that people are simply people each with their own personalities and spheres of influence. That what people and different leaders in the church say is of God might not be and can and often is simply another manifestation of human behavior and personality quirks and differences. Only God knows what and how much.
What they did was based on a little of what they learned growing up., a little based on their anger or hurt or happiness about what they went through either for good or for bad. And also a bit of their interpretation of the Bible and the way they were taught. None of us has to be a victim of other people's emotions or false teaching if we are trusting the Holy Spirit to lead us and are strong in our own relationship with Christ. We are actually called to this individually. And if we are not mature we are to learn how to be.
It is very surprising to me that many older adult Christians who are quite often "Bible read" have no awareness of this basic human behavior. Even here on CC many lack grace and can't stand to be around other Christian people who do not agree with all they think or say or teach or post here. Some people are more emotional about Jesus and more demonstrative about sharing their faith. Some have strong Biblical belief in healing and the other gifts given to the church and they are quickly dismissed as heretics.
Because instead of accepting other brothers and sisters in Christ despite the personality differences as Jesus does by loving and agreeing to disagree., believers are instead feared and run out of town (like Joyce Meyers for instance) Because she is different and doesn't hold to certain aspects of interpretation of woman teachers., she gets labeled a heretic. And then these same Christians even many here on CC., by labeling her., give themselves and others permission to discredit her. This is a weak and beggarly way of relating to other Christians who gather here on CC.
No one can force us to agree with anyone. No one can force us to worship Jesus by raising our hands or by not raising our hand. By speaking in tongues or not., by crying or not., to believe in healing or not., and so on. But sad to say the immaturity level of many here far outweighs the maturity levels. Sarcasm and meanness are a fact here on these forums and just like being in school, if you don't agree with the larger group., you are labeled as a heretic and then many give themselves and others permission to ridicule and discredit. And like a snowball effect., the momentum of false accusations far outweighs the truth and it is lost.
This is not what we are called to as Christians. It's out there in the world., it's done in politics exactly the same way. A person only need be accused before the ugly snowball effect gathers momentum. But we can be thankful we are not left alone as believers because we each have the Holy Spirit and we can know the truth and be set free from not only our own false emotions but also the false reporting by others.
The Holy Spirit can and will lead us into all truth. He never uses condemnation and should we see condemnation used here on CC we should know it's not of Him.
Last edited: